BTS.talk: Windowas Vista: Microsoft's copy of OS X?

PODcast:

Windowas Vista: Microsoft's copy of OS X?

Do you think Microsoft's new operating system look a little too familiar to Apple Mac OS X?






length: 02:15
file: btstpod_2204.mp3
size: 2114k
feed: btst
status: live (at time of posting)

Too bad Vista is 2 versions behind the latest version of OSX. Leopard is about 5 years ahead of anything Microsoft has to offer. Since os9 there are several cartons depicting Gates going throw the trash at Apple for ideas on the next system.

Now I understand what those Mac commercials are all about.

For about six months we've been amused with the antics of the cool, slim mac and the bloated, frumpy PC.

Most people who want to take advantage of the improvements to be offered by Vista are going to have to invest in new hardware.

Apple is using the advent of Vista to get people to consider the Mac, instead, while they're considering hardware upgrades, anyway.

It might work, but I think most people are going to be like me and continue to use XP until there is a major hardware failure or support for XP is discontinued.

For most of us, there just isn't a compelling reason to change to Vista or Mac.

i'm not really familiar with Apple & OS10 or whatever,

this PC (name withheld) came loaded with XP home version
& just today, ~ 7AM EDT, an 'Automatic upload' again consumed
more of the PDs time & space.....
...with an 'Offer' to UpGrade with the new Vista Home Premium
upgrade costing $239. for only $159. = that translates to a 30% cut.

but whats intriguing is that the 'new' Vista is just an 'upgrade' of the XP
which itself is very dated!
so, is the advertising similar/copy~ish...
or are you stating the Vista & OS-X are similar/copy~ish?
because, much of the XP is still used in Vista that you say is a facimile of OS

i'm getting lost in the whirlpool ...

I actually see something else.

I'm a linux user, and every time Linux gets something new, it doesnt take long before Windows AND Apple gets it too.

The Widgets, and Gadgets... I remember seeing on linux first, called Desklets. If you want, you can see them, I have a screenshot of my desktop in the 'post your desktop' thread.

Now, linux tends to stay clear of the rounded buttons look that windows and mac have taken up... but then again, the buttons in linux are hardly standardized. Each program basically has it's own look to the buttons, so it's up to the program in question really.

Much like mac sometimes implements, and windows is now trying to implement with Vista... Linux, ever since it has had it's GUI, it has had multiple desktops... which means you can be running a handful of applications on one screen, then simply flip to another desktop with another group of applications... comes in very handy when you're trying to hide your games.
This feature saves you from having too much clutter from running both your e-mail, web browsing, work, games, etc on one screen. Instead, you can spread them out over an almost infinite number of desktops. (depending on how much ram you have on your computer).

Firefox, the now preferred web browser that is available on both windows, and mac, was first on linux. Thats right, the whole mozilla suite comes with most versions of linux. And it was there to begin with... then they decided to port it to Windows and Mac.

So, most of the similarities I see between windows and mac, actually seem to be coming from the linux community... it's kinda hard to accuse someone of stealing from a company, if its not a company to begin with.

Originally posted by johnsky
I actually see something else.

I'm a linux user, and every time Linux gets something new, it doesnt take long before Windows AND Apple gets it too.

The Widgets, and Gadgets... I remember seeing on linux first, called Desklets. If you want, you can see them, I have a screenshot of my desktop in the 'post your desktop' thread.

It's pretty unfair to suggest that these things are coming from Linux. And even if it were, it would still be silly to suggest that anyone is stealing anything directly from the Linux community, since it is an open source project and thus given freely. You also seem to have forgotten that Linux is a relative newcomer (created in 1991).

Linux in and of itself -- the truly original aspect of Linux -- is just a kernel; nothing more, nothing less. The various distributions of Linux deliver an operating system based on that kernel, free GNU software, and whatever else the distributors slap in there. It is my understanding that MacOS has an underlying BSD kernel based on FreeBSD, not Linux. Nevertheless, we can thank AT&T/Bell Labs that either even exist; since without UNIX, neither project would have had anything to make better than it was.

But I digress...

The GUI on Linux systems is typically XFree86, which in turn was a free implementation of X11 (aka the X Window System). The Linux port of X was not completed until 1992, so original versions had no GUI -- they were console only. X11 Development began in 1984 at MIT. You can thank them for essentially fueling the changes in GUIs over the years, often because they had good ideas originally, and often because people worked extremely hard to improve upon their bad ideas (as was the case with MacOS, the work of the guys at NeXT, and so on). But even that is unfair, since the entire look and feel of X variants can be changed by whatever desktop environment you use (i.e., Gnome, Enlightenment, KDE). Naturally, desktop environments are separate projects handled by other groups of developers...

Once you start playing the who-did-what-first game in the world of GUIs, we could talk ourselves back to the 50s and find ourselves thanking NORAD for developing SAGE. (We should probably shake hands with the guys at ARPA/DARPA on our way and thank them for the internet and making this conversation possible.)

The ultimate point here is that this is how evolution works, especially in the world of computers. Software companies either provide what their users want or they go under. The strongest traits and characteristics survive and the undesirable ones pass on. Microsoft Windows variants, while enjoying a large user base, have fallen behind in the pack. They'll adapt in whatever way necessary to ensure their continued survival.

/tn.

generally talking and knowing the history of both operating systems one must conclude that Windows are a copy of MacOS from the beginning...

Here's the intresting part about Macs:
Originally they were supposed to be cheap altrenatives for the PC

1. Originally they were supposed to be cheap alternatives to PCs
   
2. They are mutlimedia desktops not business related machines.
   
3. The hardware in Macs is not comparible to that of a new PC
   
4. You cannot upgrade a Mac without voiding the 3 year Apple Care warranty
   
5. You have to have mac compatible components which usually cost more.
   
6. Macs are not as secure as most think, they have the same flaws that most PCs have, it is just that the viruses are created for windows and not Mac
   
7. The plug and play options in mac are nice but pose a severe security risk.
   
8. They are extremely expensive and hard to upgrade.
   
9. Their OS is nice and "does not crash" yet many Macs have "crashed". The failsafe is the dual processor that allows the screen to freeze and let the backup processes continue. This gives the illusion that Macs do not crash, yet if you run a Unix Script in the background to test for crashes, and run multiple programs and freeze the mac, you will see the crash report.
   
10. Bill Gates patented ideas from Steve Jobs because Steve Jobs didn't want to go public right away, his loss.
    
11. Windows is the most widely used business tool in the world.
    
12. Mac has been trying to keep up with Windows through marketing schemes, add-ons, and commercials due to their inadequate business nature.
    
13. Macs are based off of Unix, which means if you know Unix, you can access the port 80HTTP easily through Telnet programs and execute a Unix script to sniff out the password and gain access to the root machine.
    
14. Conclusively they are as similar as an GameboyAdvance SP and a GameBoyAdvance, one just looks nicer.
    

15. Adobe Photoshop was originally made for Mac in October 1988.

en.wikipedia.org...

need I say more?

Originally posted by teleonaut

Linux in and of itself -- the truly original aspect of Linux -- is just a kernel; nothing more, nothing less. The various distributions of Linux deliver an operating system based on that kernel, free GNU software, and whatever else the distributors slap in there.

Just to correct this little discrepancy (hope you don't mind ) GNU came first, the Linux kernel came second its was used by the GNU project as a quick fix because they did not have a complete kernel yet, its why a lot of people tend to call the system GNU/Linux or GNU+Linux.


GNU/Linux in my opinion has just recently surpassed both Windows and Mac on the desktop with the release of Beryl 0.2 it offers all the fancy features both Max and Vista have plus a dozen more, but with GNU/Linux advancing at this rate I do fear that our way of freely distributing our code could be taken advantage of by such company's as Microsoft, whats to stop them simply stealing code from Free Software and using it in there own system and simply not tell anyone. Without probable cause that there stealing code or a neutral third party who regularly checks there code theres no way to ensure the safety of Free Software from such large company's.

Actually, neither Apple nor Microsoft first came up with the GUI. That was invented by people at the Stanford Research Institute and first used by the Xerox Alto computer way back in 1972. Steve Jobs visited PARC (the Palo Alto Research Center) in 1979 when it was operated by Xerox (it was called Xerox PARC back then). He saw the GUI in operation on the Xerox Alto and decided it would be a good idea for his computers.

Thus, the GUI developed by Xerox is the precurser to all GUI operating systems used today. So, if anyone was "copied from" it was XEROX, and the "copiers" were both Apple and Microsoft. (no "Xerox copy" puns intended)

Originally posted by johnsky
I'm a linux user, and every time Linux gets something new, it doesnt take long before Windows AND Apple gets it too.

Really?

The Widgets, and Gadgets... I remember seeing on linux first, called Desklets. If you want, you can see them, I have a screenshot of my desktop in the 'post your desktop' thread.

The mentally of gadgets was first introduced in 1984 with Mac OS 1.

Firefox, the now preferred web browser that is available on both windows, and mac, was first on linux. Thats right, the whole mozilla suite comes with most versions of linux. And it was there to begin with... then they decided to port it to Windows and Mac.

Firefox is based on Mozilla, which was based on Netscape, which first appeared on Windows.

So, most of the similarities I see between windows and mac, actually seem to be coming from the linux community... it's kinda hard to accuse someone of stealing from a company, if its not a company to begin with.

Then open your eyes...

Originally posted by AlphaAnuOmega
Here's the intresting part about Macs:
Originally they were supposed to be cheap altrenatives for the PC

1. Originally they were supposed to be cheap alternatives to PCs
   
2. They are mutlimedia desktops not business related machines.

Not at all. The graphics industry and videoediting industry use Mac en large.

The hardware in Macs is not comparible to that of a new PC

It certainly is. All Mac's use standard components used in PC's.

You cannot upgrade a Mac without voiding the 3 year Apple Care warranty

Depends on model, and hardware. Most things are userupgradeable without ruining warranty.

You have to have mac compatible components which usually cost more.

Not at all.

Macs are not as secure as most think, they have the same flaws that most PCs have, it is just that the viruses are created for windows and not Mac

It is certainly no secret that Mac OS X is more secure than Windows! Just do a tiny bit of research, and you will see. -No viruses has been created for Mac OS X at this time, and if it were as easy as on Windows, we certainly would have seen some now. But, we havent.

The plug and play options in mac are nice but pose a severe security risk.

Huh? O_o You are seriously basing these accusations on nothing!

They are extremely expensive and hard to upgrade.

No and no.

Their OS is nice and "does not crash" yet many Macs have "crashed". The failsafe is the dual processor that allows the screen to freeze and let the backup processes continue. This gives the illusion that Macs do not crash, yet if you run a Unix Script in the background to test for crashes, and run multiple programs and freeze the mac, you will see the crash report.

What a load of....

Bill Gates patented ideas from Steve Jobs because Steve Jobs didn't want to go public right away, his loss.

Like what? And anyway, what has this to do with anything?

Windows is the most widely used business tool in the world.

Yeah. Certainly doesn't mean that it is better.

Mac has been trying to keep up with Windows through marketing schemes, add-ons, and commercials due to their inadequate business nature.

And they have certainly worked, ever since Steve Jobs came back in 1998.

Macs are based off of Unix, which means if you know Unix, you can access the port 80HTTP easily through Telnet programs and execute a Unix script to sniff out the password and gain access to the root machine.

Hehe, you go try that...

Cool podcast RanchMan, it kind of reminds me of David Pogue's on Vista.
www.youtube.com...

One thing I like about Mac OS X, each version gets faster without needing to upgrade the hardware. My 5 year old iBook runs the current Mac OS X (10.4.9) faster than any of the previous versions. That never happens with windows.
Anyway Mac OS X and Vista are very different, imo

I use all three admittedly I only use windows to keep current on the latest flaws and
issues but it has it's place, I do run my own company and all of my business machines are Macs with OS X and have had no trouble with them being quote "not business oriented"and as a back up I used boot cam to dual boot windows and OS X so if there is an issue like lets say Visio well boot into windows and get the work done.

I use Ubuntu Servers 3 of them one for Mysql, one for Samba PDC, and another for
an internal web server / DNS machine. Now that Macs run Intel chips life has gotten even easier with more choices if I decide I want I can just load windows or Linux or Solaris and the list goes on and on.

any way all of these operating systems have there purpose I like linux a lot
and have been using that on servers and desktops since 1997, if you think a
linux install is tough now you should hop on the way back machine and check old install and screen shots. my first linux install was Red Hat 4.2 that I got second hand to try what a trip that was for a guy that had only used windows at the time.

Later
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Yeah I remember trying to install Linux (Slackware) on the PC from floppy disks in the mid '90s. Before then I ran Minix on my Amiga. IMO Mac OS X is the best *nix ever but I still experiment with Linux to this day. Presently I have a dual boot setup with XP and Sabayon-Beryl, which I luv to demo to all my friends who think Vista rocks