Rep. Stark applauded for atheist outlook

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Of course we all know XPhiles that you can't let FACTS to be contrary to your so called opinions. You're so ``ethical`` that you support war, torture, all the good old government say is okay.

As a christian wack job you hate muslims and all other who aren't christians. Who's the guy who reject everyone else based on their faith in a non-existant thing? A belief? An emotion?

Sorry but people who don't go in Iraq think about FACTS and don't BELIEVE. Wars happens in majority because of beliefs, not facts. That's why beliefs and emotions in those cases (politics) should be put aside.

blah, blah, blah.... yeah, you can attack me all you want and drag in these other wars as justification for your position, but I still think my original question is valid.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
No, Im saying he should share the same values as the people he represents! damn, can you overcome your brainwashing enough to understand this simple concept?

How do you know he does not?

If you objectively examine two groups of people, atheists and theists, you'll find the theists are the brainwashed party. Atheists think for themselves, something theists are not free to do since their thoughts and actions, supposedly, are influenced by a superior being.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
- You're so ``ethical`` that you support war, torture, all the good old government say is okay.

- You're so called representatives who called themselves ``christians`` are not even respecting christians values such as care for the poor, peace, equality, love... they are just self-centered power hungry criminals.

B R A V O !

Look, stop hijacking the thread with constant baiting of each other, we're supposed to be debating the issue, not each other's religious standing. If you want to do that, go on BTS.

Now, can we get back to topic please?

Originally posted by Landis

How do you know he does not?

If you objectively examine two groups of people, atheists and theists, you'll find the theists are the brainwashed party. Atheists think for themselves, something theists are not free to do since their thoughts and actions, supposedly, are influenced by a superior being.

Is that so? "brainwashed" or just have a different point of view? Arent people of this persuasion supposed to be very tolerant of other views? so far, I have seen anything but. More like they tolerate everything that doesnt align themselves to the "Theist" part of this equation. Who's really brainwashed? Someone who cant see pass their own rhetoric or someone who thinks there is a supreme being?

both can be pretty intolerant at times in my opinion, but I think the liberal stheist types are pretty intolerant on everything they view as conformist.

Originally posted by annestacey
Another step toward the ban of religion. On one hand, I believe that most (if not all) organized religion is nothing but brainwashing tactics to control the masses.

Once you get rid of religion how do you plan on maintaining control of the masses?

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Once you get rid of religion how do you plan on maintaining control of the masses?

I want to see them try at times, it would almost be funny to see them attempt it. Then again I daresay we would also discover how much some people really "Believe".

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by brill

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

I do have my reservations about this. What exactly are his ethics and morals if he doesnt follow a christian model?

[edit on 14-3-2007 by XphilesPhan]

And who is to say that the christian model defines ethics and morals.

Since he is a representative of the american people, and since most of american culture has been influenced by christianity, not entirely, but quite a bit, wouldnt it be fair to assume that some of the morals and ethics he would have fall under the christian model?

I never implied that christian values were the only values, you did. I suppose it would be more appropriate to say, "does his cultural values fall in line with American Culture?"

Nice play on words, its what you do best. I never implied christian values were the only values either I clearly indicated that otherwise but I understand that rational thinking may not have been your strongest asset, we've both clearly seen that before. By stating that the person would go to hell kinda clears the air as to where your beliefs lie.

Would you state then that if muslims outnumbered christians in the US that their values would best serve the public? I highly doubt it. Organized religion is a farce and more of a tragedy for those who blindly follow its hollow words and hypocrisy.

I do however agree with your re-wording.

brill

[edit on 14-3-2007 by brill]

Oh there are other ideological substitutes for religion, various flavors of Communism are great examples. The important thing is to have a doctrine that provides easy answers, and provides a ready identification as a member of an "in" group.

As far as this representative goes, I don't really see what all the fuss is about. One admitted atheist out of 535 representatives is a sign that "religion will soon be banned"?

Give me a break

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by annestacey
Another step toward the ban of religion. On one hand, I believe that most (if not all) organized religion is nothing but brainwashing tactics to control the masses.

Once you get rid of religion how do you plan on maintaining control of the masses?

money. you use money. Why doesnt america understand that religion is only a means of controlling who will fight who. Money creates a common bond or if anything, everyone against everyone. Like a good company, everyone works together for a common goal; more money i.e. personal wealth.

80% of the religious people in the world will choose a million bucks over their God in under 1 second. its a scapegoat; good things happen: attest it to Gawd. Bad things happen; Gawd was unhappy with you..


but America dont want a world without religion, war, terrorism and poverty.

I very rarely post in this site.
I see though at the start of this thread the immediate reaction of the christians has been to attack this man for having no morals and no conviction, as if christianity has any moral standing at all instead of peddling lies, hate prejudice and evil. It has been noted on other forums I go to that millions of christians believe the Earth is 6000 years old, they believe the Earth was created after the domestication of the dog. This is the sort of discussion I would expect to see at 'internet infidels.' To any of the poor christians reading this thread do yourselves a favour and read 'Letter To A Christian Nation' by Sam Harris. Go to any large Atheist site on the web and look at the letters from atheists around America who have been relentlessly persecuted by the christians of their communities, a close friend of mine told his father he was an atheist years ago , this prompted the last words that man , a devout christian has said to his son to this day. ''you're no son of mine'' he disowned him completely. So much for 'christian love.' I for one am sick and tired of these yapping terriers of intolerance and unreason.

I really don't see what's wrong with an elected public official being an atheist o an agnostic. Last I checked my choice to not believe in a "higher being" does not hinder me from accomplishing any great task or from making logical decisions. If you want a representative who makes decisions based on "faith" fine, I on the other hand happen to think that someone who is not pre-influenced by a given religion is more fit for the job...

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I really don't see what's wrong with an elected public official being an atheist or an agnostic.....

Frankly there is nothing wrong with it IMO, there should be separation of Church and state, look at the effects of countries that are ruled by their religion, they certainly aren't friendly.

I cannot believe that any elected official truly believes in a supreme power. How can they? Look at what they do.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I really don't see what's wrong with an elected public official being an atheist o an agnostic. Last I checked my choice to not believe in a "higher being"

Exactly, preferences are not in anyway to be use against a person's abilities to perform a job.

That is why we have laws against discrmination in the job market he is a public official but he is performing a job.

Well say westpoint.

"In God We Trust" is perhaps as far as almost everyone makes it when they consider the ethical underpinnings of the government and what we stand for as a nation.

Why must the public be shown that religion need be the only basis through which that trust can be formed? Furthermore, atheism is NOT an unethical, an amoral approach to the law. To the contrary, it is my understanding (although I myself am Christian and profess it) that atheists do not identify with a god but rather find their way to trust through honest and logical interaction between people.

It is merely another path, and forgive me if this is blaspheme especially during Lent, that leaves out the middle men of both Jesus and God. Why bother if you are bound by the contract of the agreed upon word of another person?

For many right wing christian politicians, that's a far higher standard than what we have observed in the press.

Hmm wonder hows a president with indian background who belive in "great spirit" consider that indians were those who lived in America in the first place. I find it very fitting

Originally posted by xpert11
It nice to see an atheist elected to office even if one person isn't enough to counter the wack jobs who have taken over the Republican party.
I do judge politicians on other issues as well and I have many convictions but it just so happens that the existence of a higher power isn't one of them.

my words exactly, couldnt of said it bettah!

I have no problem voting for an atheist even though I am a Christian. The atheist crowd has plenty of radicals just like all of the religions do. Its the extremists I have a problem with. What I would want to know is if this person is one of the intollerant get rid of religion at all costs bunch. That is a different story.

Hate is hate and these people hate just for the pure joy of it. Any ideology that incorporates hate is dangerous to any society. There is no difference between someone who hates another because of their skin color and someone who hates another because of their religion. They are the exact same person. If Stark is part of this crowd he is dangerous to our future. If Stark is a reasonable, rational person it makes no difference what his religious beliefs are. If he is the former a little research should reveal it and hopefully destroy his carrer. If he is the later their is no reason other than hate to oppose Stark.

The American Humanist Association applauded Rep. Pete Stark for publicly acknowledging he does not believe in a supreme being. The declaration, it said, makes him the highest-ranking elected official — and first congressman — to proclaim to be an atheist.

Can always count on huge flame war to ensue after a story like this drops.

As far as any one person saying implying that Christianity is the only correct moral/ethical guideline well that’s Bullsh*t. If you want to argue they hypothetical fact that if he had a religious belief that the chance of him having a good moral conviction of which you can comprehend and identify with personally then that is understandable, and also a personal opinion I might add and greatly differs from person to person. In knowing that someone is Christian and being a Christian yourself their moral convictions become tangible because you understand and identify with it.

On the other hand just because he doesn't believe in god doesn't take away from his convictions, it just makes them less obvious because those that need him to be "Christian, Etc..." can't identify with his ethics/morals because they are not spelled out for them in his belief in their God.

Personally for me it doesn't matter. Reason is because I know that just because he doesn't worship god that it doesn't mean he can't have very down to earth world beliefs and an understanding of the beliefs of those he represents. I could care less if he worships reruns of Duck Tales and prays to a burnt spot on the wall, as long as he respects people in general and is honest then he is okay in my book. The fact that he admits to being a non believer actually lends credibility to him for me because lots of god fearing politicians have turned out to be the biggest lying scum bags in U.S. history. I'll take an honest Atheist over a Christian liar who uses his religious beliefs as a cover any day of the week.

I'm ready for an onslaught of flames now.

~Anathema