Harsh Reality of Iraq. ** warning image may disturb

Originally posted by Connected

Marg doesn't care about a dictator killing thousands of innocent children. She only cares when the USA does it, because she is anti-American.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Connected]

I care about the ones that were still alive before the invasion and now they are causalties of the liberation.

The children in the pictures posted by the starter of this thread.

The ones that you prefer . . . to ignore . . .

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Hi Marg, The whole Iraq issue was a lie, Bush went around the country telling everyone Saddam was behind, 9/11 when he was not, then it was the WMD'S which was another lie because it was the West that supplied him so we knew exactly what he was capable of.

I agree with you my friend, but even when we try to deny ignorance after all the facts and results of this ill planned and greedy war still is people out there that rather keep using the same old Saddam was a killer rhetoric to justified the death and chaos that is plaguing the Iraqi nation today.

Originally posted by Soupman
Also Marg you keep stating this is ATS and we are supposed to Deny Ignorance, well your doing the opposite while blaming the others for doing it (which they are to an extent). But remember... it goes both ways.

Pardon my ignorance but . . . I am not complaining here . . . so is actually one way.

Originally posted by stumason


You know what, I was going to actually reply to this guys stupid reply to me, but having read this statement from him, I am not going to bother.

What would be the point? So far into the lie's he actually believes them. This isn't the raving's of a crazy loon, but I can actually prove you wrong on everything you have said that there would be no pojnt. You actually think what you have said is true and that is sad.

Lies? I provided a link from the US military saying WMD's were found. They were, maybe not as much as we expected, but they were there. Got it? How is that a lie?

We went to Iraq because Saddam wouldn't give up or show us his WMD's. We invaded, and we found some older WMD's. So whats the problem? How am I lying? Please tell me.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Hi Marg, The whole Iraq issue was a lie, Bush went around the country telling everyone Saddam was behind, 9/11 when he was not, then it was the WMD'S which was another lie because it was the West that supplied him so we knew exactly what he was capable of.

First off Bush NEVER EVER EVER said Saddam was behind 911. He said OSAMA was. GET THAT STRAIGHT. Only the brainwashed think Iraq had something to do with 911, because the controlled media confused them, and because Afghanistan (the first place we attacked) was so close to Iraq. I guarantee you will never find anything from Bush saying Saddam was behind 911. Although, he did say Saddam or the people under Saddam may be providing Al Qaeda with deadly weapons.

Second... The reason we went to Iraq was always WMD's. Nothing else. We knew exactly what Saddam was capable of, and that is why we went after him and his WMD's because we know he could easily give those weapons to the terrorists if he needed.

Its very simple people, don't make it seem so complex.

Originally posted by johnsky
I was just browsing the CIA's page on Iraqi information...
TALK ABOUT A RE-WRITE OF HISTORY
READ ON!!!
CONTINUED until december 16th, 1998... 12 years non-compliance my ass.
...
They claimed they were in non-compliance for 12 years before the war, which is absolute bull.
Excuse me, but if they were in non-compliance, then how the hell was Saddam awarded the Nobel Peace Prize...

Wow, where to start.

1st off Iraq was not in FULL compliance with UN Security Council Resolutions. Remember way back when the Clinton Admin Bombed Iraq for noncompliance back in 1998? Why do you think they did it?

The December 1998 bombing of Iraq (code-named Operation Desert Fox) was a major four-day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets from December 16-December 19, 1998 by the United States and United Kingdom. These strikes were undertaken in response to Iraq's continued failure to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions as well as their interference with United Nations Special Commission inspectors.

en.wikipedia.org...

I don't think you can find one person who would say Iraq was in FULL compliance with the resolutions. In fact most would say he had a highly developed plan of misdirection and deciet when it came to UN inspectors and their searches.

As for the Nobel Peace Prize that you claim.... I am Just Speachless. You are aware that was a joke right?
Nobel Peace Prize Winners

[edit on 9-3-2007 by pavil]

Connected Bush said on many occasions Iraq was responcible for 9/11, he toured America stating it on every occasion, I heard him saying it, I read what he said I watched his press meetings and millions of others heard those comments.

And again you refuse to accept the real reason for invading Iraq, the WMD's/insurgent excuse is getting rather thin. And if your concerned re insurgents obtaining WMD's old or new I'm sure the US will be invading Russia and China soon for the same reason as they are selling weapons to everyone.

Obviously you have no problem with the US selling weapons to anyone, you have no problem that the US and the West supported Saddam through all his years of mass murder, you have no problem that the US supported the Taliban to fight against the Russians.

The reasons for wars are few and they are rolled out every time by the would be aggressor, they have our resources, land, or they are a threat to us, any of that sound familiar.

The point of this thread was to highlight the suffering of innocents in Iraq, suffering brought about by the US Goverment and its backers. Iraq was never a threat to the US or anyone else its a pity that you cannot see that you have partaken in a crimminal act against humanity just as my taxes have supported it. But I accept that guilt and the wrongdoing in my name, how about you.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Aw. Tragic. Let me get a tissue. Maybe the ignorant fools shouldn't blow each other up.

I don't understand how people sympathize with murderers .. or are so damn clueless they blame America for Sunnis murdering Shia..

You act like a 10yr old child at times rockpuck, really man.. do me a favour if your going to come into my threads and talk this way, dont bother. If you cant be civil and discuss the topic really do us ALL a favour, and dont post in the threads.

Your a hypocrite using the war as a political soap box which quite frankly makes me sick.

No, your governments a hypocrite.. they still use 911 in every single speach possible. How many times did we hear about relationships between saddam and alqaeda before Iraq? As if they didnt maniuplate that event to the Up most extreme to con people into following this war.
The sad part is, there's still people who havent figured out for themselves who was maniuplate by who.
Ill give you a hint.
....''there wasnt a relationship, and there wasnt wmd's''
so where does that put you?

Learn to understand the issues before you jump in with pictures that are supposed to make me feel bad (they don't, nothing new to me) Sunnis are killing Shia and America has nothing to do with it.

Glad you have no heart.. seeing a child bloodied and injured doesnt effect you?.. least your honest.
And i never said America was doing the bomb of #es and sunni's.. but they are definately the cause of the strife today.

I posted a wonderful thread about Kurdistan (click on my name) and you liberals pushed it aside, who cares if someone is living a dream right? Because you can't use that to further your own agenda.
Sick. I am truly ashamed I share a nation with people like you.

At what expense? at what loss are these 'few' dreams worth?
Your leaders are living the dream, only people in the US are living the dream.. well maybe Iran too.. but Iraq?
I be t you they feel like they are a long way way from a dream.

If your ashamed to be a part of a country that is realising its mistakes.. im sure theyd love to see the back end of you on a boeing..
I hear Israel love your type.


[edit on 10-3-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Er he .. did have chemical weapons, biological as well.... we gave them to him.. so he did have them somewhere.
Why don't you put a link to the source you got that information from.

..... well.. see... why is it their fault then?

If I walk up to you and hand you a gun.. I cant leave, then come back and shoot you, because you had a gun can I..

And we didnt invade because of the wmd's we gave them in the 70/80's..
we invaded because they were making NEW Wmd's and stockpiling them.

can you please show me the proof of the vast stock piles of recently created WMD"s?

No you cant can you.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Actually Saddam's regime is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in one or two day campaigns. Remember the mass graves, those that were found, which contained thousands of people?....

The 1983 attack against Kurdish citizens belonging to the Barzani tribe, 8,000 of whom were rounded up by the regime in northern Iraq and executed in deserts at great distances from their homes.
The 1988 Anfal campaign, during which as many as 182,000 people disappeared. Most of the men were separated from their families and were executed in deserts in the west and southwest of Iraq. The remains of some of their wives and children have also been found in mass graves.
Chemical attacks against Kurdish villages from 1986 to 1988, including the Halabja attack, when the Iraqi Air Force dropped sarin, VX and tabun chemical agents on the civilian population, killing 5,000 people immediately and causing long-term medical problems, related deaths, and birth defects among the progeny of thousands more.
The 1991 massacre of Iraqi Shi’a Muslims after the Shi’a uprising at the end of the Gulf war, in which tens of thousands of soldiers and civilians in such regions as Basra and Al-Hillah were killed.
The 1991 Kurdish massacre, which targeted civilians and soldiers who fought for autonomy in northern Iraq after the Gulf war.

your right, up until 1991, saddam was a ruthless dood.

Can you show me evidence of his mass murders in say

1995-2003?

Im really keen to see what this man was doing in the final 7/8 years of his rule..


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[edit on 10-3-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
You either don't want to see the issue as a broad issue with alot of history, or you use it for pure political gain. Sadly 75% of Americans are so ignorant what ever CNN tells them they listen to. (And I watch CNN every night, not Fox..)

The issue people see are lies, blood and money.
But I love the irony in your final sentance.

ignorance = CNN.
You = CNN Viewer

CNN = Iraq is bad, wmd's, alqaeda.

You still claim Iraq had WMD's and is full of terrorists.


arent your calling yourself ignorant?

Originally posted by Connected

Originally posted by Muaddib
I bet marg and those people who are blaming the U.S. for the pictures seen in the original article did not take a look at those sites i gave with the pictures of what Saddam regime was doing to the Iraqi people....

Yeah I bet.... They have one agenda, and see things only one way. They think everything that is happening in Iraq wasn't happening before USA showed up, because their controlled media source had no reason to report about it. Now that USA is there taking care of business, and the media is all over it, they think its all of USA's fault.

They see some blood in Iraq, and they automatically think it is the USA's fault. They are sheeple, with no real insight as to what is really happening.
[edit on 9-3-2007 by Connected]

Iraqi's them selves prefer saddams day.

Yes, saddam was ruthless, and if you stepped wrong you were murdered.

But you KNEW where the line was, and you lived your life.
You could still go down the road, eat ice cream, go to uni and enjoy life.

NOW?
Your kidnapped and tortured simlply for being smart.
Your killed and kidnapped for being born one way or the other.


American isnt directly doing the damage in Iraq today,
but we caused the events which led to this.
Unforunately, we're laong for hte ride now regardless.

Originally posted by Connected
marg seriously you are pissing a lot of people off with your nonsense. You have no clue what you are talking about...

You are throwing a number of 655,000 and you are not telling people HOW they were killed. Most of those deaths were NOT by the hand of USA soldiers... GET A CLUE.


B.T.W. "Peace in the mid-east" was a term highly used for many many years, as an ultimate wish. Now, it will soon become true, and the lost lives are worth it.

Soon Iraq will be a USA allie. Just like USA and Japan.

Again, If your going to come into a thread acting like a child dont bother.
What are you 12?
Your debating an international poltiical affair here, and your telling someone they are pissing everyone off simply because they dont agree with you?


I mean ffs....

why cant mature people be given a forum, and the kids who want to cry like babies have another?... this thread started out good until a select few came in attacking people, rather than the topic.

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[edit on 10-3-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Jesus, ya know what.
Thanks heaps for all the votes guys, an the people who atleast tried to debate the topic.

But i mean...

Here's the deal.

George Bush said he had undeniable evidence, Iraq was STOCKPILING large amounts of Chemical & Biological weapons.
He Said they were PRODUCING Them in large quantities, and that they had a 45minute turn around time to fire them.

What possible evidence, could GWBush of had, to state such claims?
How can you have evidence of STOCKPILES and manufacturing plants, when none exist?

500 1980's chemical bombs do not constitute STOCKPILES..

You show me, the stock piles, and the producing elemtsn and I will yield.

You show me statistics of civil war PRE 2003 post 1994 and I will yeild.

Instaed of acting like childeren, come back to the table with proof, that this war was justified under the guise of


''imminent thread of WMD's ''
'' Alqaeda link''

Because at the moment, all we have, is a daily death toll that constantly increases, cover ups and scandals coming from the whitehouse...
and comeplete and utter CHAOS in Iraq, where we are losing grip on any kind of control we had when we rolled in.

Again thanks for the votes guys, lets keep it up.
They cant hide behind the flag for ever.,

I would of quoted and replied to everyone, but far out.. where do I begin, half of you replied to the BS with the same 'truths' I woulda.

Originally posted by Connected
First off Bush NEVER EVER EVER said Saddam was behind 911. He said OSAMA was. GET THAT STRAIGHT. Only the brainwashed think Iraq had something to do with 911, because the controlled media confused them, and because Afghanistan (the first place we attacked) was so close to Iraq. I guarantee you will never find anything from Bush saying Saddam was behind 911. Although, he did say Saddam or the people under Saddam may be providing Al Qaeda with deadly weapons.

Bush always suspected Saddam was behind 9/11
The impact of Bush linking 9/11 and Iraq
Bush Gang Swore Saddam Was Behind 9/11 In Lawsuit
The Saddam-9/11 Link Confirmed
Bush stands by al Qaeda, Saddam link
In Lawsuit, Team Bush Swore Saddam Was Behind 9/11

i really have to wonder why this link was moved after those members who opose to the whole "le'ts blame the coalition for the deaths of all iraqis"....

When the thread was about showing pictures of Iraqis who were harmed, maimed, and killed and some members were claiming it was all because of the U.S. this claim apparently was not "politically motivated"?... Yet when the responses from those members who opose this "coalition witch hunt" presented evidence and spoke their minds this thread was immediately moved to "politics of war"....

Humm...

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

your right, up until 1991, saddam was a ruthless dood.

Can you show me evidence of his mass murders in say

1995-2003?

Im really keen to see what this man was doing in the final 7/8 years of his rule..

I gave several links to what Saddam was doing to his people... not all those links are about events that only happened in the 80s....

You actually think saddam's reign of terror ended in 1991?....

You should be doing yourself a favor and look around these forums, or do a google search for Iraqis tortured, or even school girl torture in Iraq.

I got tired of looking for what Saddam did.

The death of any child in any war is attrocious.... But allowing 500,000 children under the age of 5 to die, and agreeing with the option which Russia, China, France, and Germany among others wanted to keep trying, which was to keep the sanctions in Iraq, making themselves rich meanwhile another 500,000 children under the age of 5 died, and who knows how many more murders by the hands of Saddam, his regime and his sons, was not an option.

Im sure it did happen,

but it was no worse than OTHER countries doing up until TODAY.

Had he of been doing something on par with Hitlers Holocaust, then military intervention is a must.

But people jump from excuse to excuse,

Wmd's
Human Rights
Ignoring UN measures.


For 1, there were no WMD's.
For 2, What saddam was doing is no different to what other leaders do to citizens.
For 3, the UN declared the war ILLEGIAL, meaning that if saddam went against the UN rules, It was up to the UN to decide the punishment.
and the UN stuck to the tone of continuing searches and dialouge.

Google Video

Above is a video on google about Iraqi contractors in Iraq

From about 20-30min mark they are discussing the treatment detainee's at abu grahib receive from CONTRACTORS, from private business interrogators.

Then you cut to a seen around the 29-30minute mark of a reporter asking GWBush about the accountability of such crimes being committed..

Tell me,
If you were an Iraqi, having had family members taken away in the night and treated wrong during interogations.. after watching bush laugh, joke and dance around like a school boy about the topic.. would it make you want to drop your gun and join democracy and help the americans?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop


At what expense? at what loss are these 'few' dreams worth?
Your leaders are living the dream, only people in the US are living the dream.. well maybe Iran too.. but Iraq?
I be t you they feel like they are a long way way from a dream.

If your ashamed to be a part of a country that is realising its mistakes.. im sure theyd love to see the back end of you on a boeing..
I hear Israel love your type.

Because you prefer no opposition.

You post pictures. Why do you post pictures? For a reaction on emotion. OMG the little kid.. that should be enough to pull out now! Well it doesn't work that way, man.

If you think us leaving will make the bloodshed stop.. your wrong. Dead wrong.

If you think us not going in there would have prevented this bloodshed.... your wrong... dead wrong.

But a Liberal who sights only the demise of the Conservative Right would care little about who died and for what reason, they have political agendas to stick to. I for one expect people to die in wars.. so a little girl with blood on her face is rather the norm to be expected. I know you want flowers and rainbows and cute little bunnies to frolock around Iraq in the war...... But that is not the real world.

The real world is a despot was taken off his mighty throne. In the vacuum that proceeded that event, the Shia found them selves in a weird position...... no one was oppressing them..

For the first part of the war the Shia sat back and waited to see what would unfold as the Baathis Sunnis fought Americans. Americans and Sunni would engage heavily, resulting in massive losses for Sunni soldiers (insurgents what ever) and they needed a new plan..

New Al Quada leaders in the region came up with a better battle plan.. you see.. Al Quada leaders watch American news stations VIA Satalite Cable, they watch CNN, FOX, MSNBC, BBC, you name it they watch it. Now why would terrorist watch our news? To see how we think... they saw the biggest opposition to the Republicans was the death toll... and not our troops death toll but the whole over all Iraqi death toll. They soon discovered that Americans have a weakspot for death and destruction.. makes them self aware you see, makes them feel bad, makes them realize the world may not be that cheery wonder world after all....

So Al Quada hits America where it hurts the most..... none Americans. They coordinated the attacks on Shia populations in such a way that hundreds died in single days.. sure they hit American targets, but that was a secondary target. The more civilians they killed, the angrier the American people got.. and this is the kicker.. they wouldn't get mad at Al Quada and the Baathis party, but at their own Republicans! .. It is a plan worthy of a great war leader.. psychological warfare.. the American people are to ignorant to read INTO the news instead OF the news, so they hear cover story phrases

"130 die in Iraq, Local soldier dies, 160 die in suicide bombing, us failing, generals say America beaten, 67 die in market place attack"

And Osama sits infront of his Satalite TV somewhere in Pakistan and laughs till he cries.. the leaders in Iraq continue on the slaughter.. and American war leaders sit back with their mouths open trying to figure out just where it all went wrong... because they don't have the slightest idea how to stop it.

And not only is our military incompitant to stop the bloodshed, but the administration has not given them a quarter of what they need to do it, on top of that the disgraceful American people would rather pull out so they don't have to see Iraq in the news any more.. making them feel all those less then nice feelings inside.. And the News will keep portraying Iraq as a hell hole where everyone is dieing, where as 1 news story in the past 2 years has been in regards to Kurdistan, and we have all but forgotten about Basra, the focus is Bahgdad .... because thats where alot of Sunis lived.... because it is the capital and they where they rulers..

One picture does not speak a thousand words. The man who said that apparently did not understand that there are many thousands of events, causes and effects that play a roll into making the scene in which was photographed which cannot be discerened by one picture.

You can post pictures of bloody little girls, and I can post pictures of young women attending the American University in Kurdistan. But carry on.. carry on.. inflate the number of dead to fit your needs, post photos that make you feel like your a good man on the self righteous path.. accuse me of being "young" when in reality I approach all things from more then one angle.. biased thinking be it left or right of center is 99% of the time 100% wrong.

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[edit on 10-3-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]