Kurt Cobain: Murder or Suicide?

He didn't kill himself. Even the "suicide letter" sounded more like he was going to take a break from music for a while.

It was also proven that the tad bit at the end of it to make it look more like a suicide letter was Courtney Loves handwriting. When you look at a photo of that letter it's way too obvious that the part at the end was not written by him.

I can't remember the guys name, but the guy who was trying very hard to show everyone that it was obviously Courtney Love behind it was actually originally hired by Courtney Love to investigate it. He said it became apparent pretty quick she was involved. That's when he started turning the investigation on to her and she would purposely give him new cases to investigate to get him of her trail.

Courtney Love is smart, but the drugs screw her up and she left too much evidence behind. Even the original Nirvana band members ahve all hinted they think she had it done.

Not to mention that the shotgun was loaded with what's usually used for duck hunting. That wouldn't have been enough to kill him even at close range. It would have torn his face to shreds, but he would have lived through it. Also people who saw the body said the first weird thing they noticed was how neat his hair laid on the floor. Like someone had combed it out to make it look as if a shotgun blast caused it.

Originally posted by nightmare_david
I can't remember the guys name, but the guy who was trying very hard to show everyone that it was obviously Courtney Love behind it was actually originally hired by Courtney Love to investigate it. He said it became apparent pretty quick she was involved.

Would that be Tom Grant you are refering to? He made a website about it the case, I linked to it earlier in the thread

Responding to the title alone, in my opinion it was a staged death and there might have been time travel and other technology involved!

Originally posted by timedrifter
Responding to the title alone, in my opinion it was a staged death and there might have been time travel and other technology involved!

Are you for real?

I love this site.. Haha

Everything is a cover up. I mean, its fantastic - the depths people go to make something out of nothing.

Honestly, I hope it was murder, because I hate nirvana. And, well, with the grunge core, pre-emo, nihilistic mob of miscreants of the day, there was a sense of grace attributed to his bulletbrained antics.

He was not a great person, he was a warbling musician, nothing more.

So sadly, he just killed himself, his wife was so strung up on smack that she would probly have been on the nod at the time he did it.

I agree with ya Badwolf,Nirvana was terrible.

everybody has a right to their opinion, and that is what I think, if you disagree, sorry charlie!! it makes sense to me. If it is not true, I am certainly open to the idea, I reserve my opinions, I dont take the first answer and blindly believe it myself.

i found this video on kurt

uk.youtube.com...

Kurt Cobain helped Homosexuals be less hated he was a great man indeed. The heroin evidence proves it all 3 times over the lethal dose thats insane he wouldnt have time to shoot himself he would be immediatly crippled in the process of the whole injection.

I have a question. when somebody dies due to suspected suicide but possibly due to murder via a firearm, wouldn't they check Curts hands or shoes to see if there was any cordite (gunpowder) residue on them to prove whether or not he pulled the trigger. thats standard procedure isn't it? I think that most detectives have a simple chemical swab test in the trunks of their cars for that stuff, you know, incase they have to investigate a suicide/homicide?

also, it's not hard to develop 2-5 pounds of pressure to pull the trigger on a shotgun. he could probably get the tip of his shoe to do the job even though there is a trigger guard making things a little harder, but certainly not impossible. I'm pretty sure if I wanted to wax myself that way I could pull it off.

Also wasn't he waked out of his mind on drugs when he died? That could be a factor. for all we know curt may have pulled this sort of stunt all the time. It could have been like this- I hate myself look at me i got a shotgun to my face I'll do it. but this time he was whacked out enough to actually bumble enough to pull the trigger. oooops.

Cortney love is a complete nut job/ nearly worthless human being. seriously god vomited and there was cortney. Was Curt really happy? even though he was rich and now had a really huge amount of pressure on his back with all the newfound attention. having someone as unstable as his wife around may have just made him even more suicidal. people are often full of lies about their happiness before they off themselves. he could have been telling everybody that he was happy but in reality still be deeply in pain. I don't think fame or money take away those sort of emotional issues. Curt could have been driven to suicide by courtney. seriously that woman could make satan weep.

I don't think Courtney herself did it. I kinda have my doubts that someone who can hardly get her lipstick on straight is going to have what it takes to stage a crime scene even to the paltry degree. I do think she might have hired someone, though.

I am not terribly familiar with this, though, and I am wondering, was the evidence such to support that he could have dropped the gun and accidentally shot himself?

Originally posted by Gooey
Kurt Cobain, one of rock's greatest legends, allegedly commited suicide. But I have a different theory. I think that his wife, Courtney Love killed him out of cold blood. People call me crazy for believing this, but I'm going to go over why Kurt didn't kill himself and this was the doing of Courtney.

Who reported his death? Courtney Love. She was there the whole time, and she reported the incident right after it had happened.

This was not suicide. It was cold hearted murder.

Totally agree. Her diary proved it, her own father thought so based on her past behaviour and her suppression of evidence etc. since has only added to my certainty. The documentary claiming this same view needs to be seen by a lot more folks.

It's been a long time let it GO! Because Kurt Didn't change anything. He didn't invent anything, he didn't inspire generations of people to do anything useful. He played guitar badly, he couldn't sing, and he was a heroin addict, despite what the conspiracy theory says. He was no one to be admired or revered. He was a fu**** up junkie from Seattle who thought he could sing..And his fans to too stupid and stoned to know the difference.

murdah murdah murdah , kill kill kill.

I believe this was a hit ordered by the record companies, and being multi billion dollar industries that basically control the minds of the youths, I think the CIA, FBI, AND the Police would do everything in their power to help cover this up... and like always, leave a few ends conspicuously loose, so the people who accept anything at face value will bicker with the people who actually dig a little deeper and they will get labelled nut jobs and conspiracy theorists. If something looks too clean, that just makes for more questions to be asked. They want two factions to battle each other over what may or may not have happened, so that they never have to get asked the tough questions themselves. By "they", I mean the elite of the world. Don't think for a second that they aren't in control of the music industry as well.

For the record, I've been a Nirvana fan for a long time. I've believed the conspiracies on and off, but in order to believe he truly killed himself is to deny cold hard evidence.

In the documentary, Kurt and Courtney, Nick Broomfield purposely withholds details and also flat out lies in some parts of the video to, in the end, confuse the viewer and also to make himself look unbiased. Maybe this is because he was threatened about certain aspects of his film, I dunno... but the film itsself didn't convince me.

The one fact I can remember offhand that is askew in Nick Broomfield's documentary is at the part of the video that supposedly shows a man standing on one foot or something with the equivalent dose as Kurt was found to have in his system. That was a lie. The man was not on heroin at all. He was on methadone. Methadone is a much less powerful drug than real heroin. So that myth has already been put to bed.

Also, Kurt had made plans to go fishing with his grandfather, Leland Cobain (who is a strong supporter of the case for his murder) just days before he died. Also, Kurt had been a personal friend of another musical genius that is not very well known, named Greg Sage, from the band the Wipers (huge fan.)

in an interview done with the website Smokebox.net in 1999. Greg sage had this to say about Kurt and his death:

"Smokebox: You’ve mentioned Kurt Cobain in some of your past interviews, and he produced the "14 Songs for Greg Sage and the Wipers" CD; things didn’t end up too pleasantly for him, either. It seems that the big industry push in the nineties that had Nirvana as the next big thing, it seems that was just too much for him to handle. You knew him personally, didn’t you?

Sage: Yeah.

Smokebox: Do you think that was a big part of it, that the industry tried to make a big money machine out of his band?

Sage: Well, I can’t really speculate other than what he said to me, which was, he wasn’t at all happy about it, success to him seemed like, I think, a brick wall. There was nowhere else to go but down, it was too artificial for him, and he wasn’t an artificial person at all. He was actually, two weeks after he died, he was supposed to come here and he wanted to record a bunch of Leadbelly covers. It was kind of in secret, because, I mean, people would definitely not allow him to do that. You also have to wonder, he was a billion-dollar industry at the time, and if the industry had any idea at all of him wishing or wanting to get out, they couldn’t have allowed that, you know, in life, because if he was just to get out of the scene, he’d be totally forgotten, but if he was to die, he’d be immortalized.

Smokebox: That’s quite a statement.

Sage: Don’t get me wrong on that subject, I’m not trying to state that I thought that he was murdered due to his wish to get out of the Nevermind hit record mindset. It was just an odd set of circumstances up to that point. So, I always kind of wonder about that end of the business, because when you’re a billion-dollar industry, you’re not a free artist at all, you’re just under a state of Mafia control. I mean, I even had my life threatened, basically twice, from that end of that establishment, because of some people wanting to put out movies with, including some songs that I wrote. I was basically told, for my own good, to say no, and I would say to them, "well, so okay, I wrote a song, and if someone wanted to pay me a million dollars to use it, I should say no?" And they said, "Correct." And they’d just say, "it’s in your best interests." So, I can’t say my life was threatened, but the tone of it was very, very uh…

Smokebox: …Ominous?"

source

I think this is what happened to a lot of music legends that died before their time. When you try to escape fame before the record industry is done milking you for all your worth, you don't meet with a pretty end.

Kurt Cobain was the latest example of that.... well no, maybe Elliot Smith was. I mean, that guy has the balls to stab himself to death? That sounds rediculous to me.

reply to post by projectvxn


That is very harsh and unfair, I was no major fan of Nirvana, but they had some good songs, and are far superior to the vast majority of the thrash you hear in the media these days, nothing but talentless Karaoke singers trained to dance. And aside from Kobains musical talents, his death deserved a proper investigation.

Listen, I've been a fan of all kinds of music since I bought my first album when I was 10 (Which was Weird Al's "Dare To Be Stupid"). I've been into thrash metal, nu metal, classic rock, shred, classical, stoner rock, grunge, punk, psychadelia, jazz, bebop, funk, etcetera etcetera, and believe me when I say that I know a great songwriter when I hear one. Kurt Cobain was right up there with John Lennon and Brian Wilson. He was one of the top 3 songwriters of all time, and it's not just in my opinion.

Anyone who disrespects the man and his genius has obviously never tried writing a song before.

You can know all the scales and modes and finger excersizes and shred techniques in the world, but that doesn't mean you're a good musician.

Before you go insulting people, dead or alive, about their talents, give it a shot, man! If you're gunna be arrogant, at least be Dave Mustaine. Massive disrespect I hear from mostly metalheads today (I'm not gunna start on the filthy garbage noise penis measuring contest that metal has deteriorated into these days....death metal? death to my eardrums. Black metal? Sorry, I don't get good vibes when bands start cults and kill each other in brutal ritual murders).

It's kind of funny how the first people to insult a good songwriter are the last people who could actually write a decent song themselves.

Show some respect to a dead man. What if his family were reading this right now? I really feel heartbroken when I think of Kurt's mom and dad and grandfather, and especially his daughter who's royally screwed in the head by all of this stuff most likely.

You don't have to like his music, but to say he wasn't a good song writer is just crazy. I've never been a fan of his music, but I do respect the lyrics he wrote. His lyrics were very powerful and I had more than a few friends in school that were helped by just his music. You have to respect an artist that has that kind of writing power.



[edit on 17-1-2008 by nightmare_david]

Listen if you dont like Nirvana, then dont listen to them. No point in getting on here and trashing a dead person, because you were some jock who hated kids that loved music. Nirvana was an EXTREMELY influencial band that changed the face of music.

WOw! some people actually think the people running the record industry are in cahoots with the secret government and that it's all run like some mafia.

Holy crap what a bunch of paranoia. seriously as I've mentioned before I work really deeply in the record industry and trust me these people aren't even smart enough to outsmart a 20 year old with no life experience. seriously the execs running the industry are clueless. they go to work they come home and hole themselves up in their houses. they don't really communicate with other people in their own industry when they don't have to. and their alliances only go as far as the business deal is concerned. once that project is over they really do go their own ways until some future project brings them back together again. In the industry the right hand doesn't know what their left hand is doing. Theres no real way to coordinate a conspiracy like offing Cobain.

Cobain did himself in. Or maybe his wife got him offed. but there is no way the industry had any part in it. seriously. if you meet the people running the record industry like I have you'd know that that was completely off the wall nutso thinking. In fact I've met half the people that produced and managed most of Cobain's career. TO them he was just another artist. Another record deal that actually generated money. but they knew he had maybe a few albums in him left. they wanted to cash in on those albums of course so why would they get rid of him. Also the people making money off of cobain in any large way also had at least 8-22 other clients on their roster generating the same amount of money. They weren't that interested in killing Cobain. In fact I'm really certain that the idea never even popped into their minds. he was just another account they had to deal with at least once a day along with many others.

And seriously to think that the government pressured these people in to offing Cobain. Not with the money and lawyers these people have. The govt wouldn't stand a chance in pressuring them into that.

Oh and PS. the quotes from Cobain's musical genius friend about how the industry threatened to off him too. wow. that guy needs to lay off the pot, and crack, and meth, and opiates and booze and whatever else happened to be in his system when he made that interview. either that or go take some linguistic comprehension courses so that he can correctly transcribe what his handlers were saying to him. and seriously. nobody not even Elton john gets a million dollars to let some movie sample their song. maybe a few hundred bucks. so hes full of it right there.

Now my opinions of nirvana aside. the fact is they were NOT a social force that even effected any part of society. Hell the Foo Fighters have more pull than nirvana did. ever think maybe to sell all those albums the industry (big shock here) hyped the crap out of this new "Musical Mozart" of the modern ages and a few people actually believed it.
Nirvana was not nor ever will be the beatles and Curt wasn't John. He was just some hapless heroin addict that got lucky. Just to put it in perspective. The beatles will have a box set 20 years from now. do you really think you'll find a nirvana box set in 2028? I really doubt it.