New Take on Israel

Hello to everyone out there,

I'm sure everyone has heard the following time line regarding the second coming. God will return a generation after Israel is reborn as a nation. Some people use the bible as a way of defining a generation as 40 years. Based on this, the expectation is that the second coming should be happening any day now.

If anyone knows the exact verses I am referring to please post them for me. Thanks.

Anyway, my theory goes like this......

Currently Israel is by definition a sovereign nation, although there are several countries that do not recognize this fact. It is also true that the land currently controlled by and recognized as Israel is not what God originally granted to Israel. I'm thinking that perhaps there will be some mid east war (possibly soon) and Israel will prevail and in the process gain back the territories God Originally granted Israel. This would actually begin to fulfill the 2nd coming prophecy. In this scenario Israel would also gain full control of Jerusalem and especially the Temple Mount ushering in Israel's ability to rebuild the temple. Therefore the second coming is a bit further down the road but still within most of our life spans.

Thoughts, Opinions.........

I think that it's important to realise the difference between the Kingdom of Israel and the State of Israel. They are very different.

reply to post by photobug


The original land of Israel included borders that went into the lands of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan.

The current border design has been made within the past century by politicians. The only way the Bible can be fulfilled is if Israel starts wars with these countries, or claims terrorists come from them, and then establishes military posts along the borders. Every few months, those military bases will reacher further into the countries, and along with it will come illegal civilian home establishments.

This is the tactic they have been using against the Palestinians.

Matthew 24:19-20 I believe...Most believe 40 is now like 70. Since that is the time that Isreal (fulfilling Ezekials dry bones prophecy) reformed into today's Isreal.

you know what my take on israel is?
they want the special privilege of people recognizing their "right to exist"
...it's odd, no other nation has that right.

oh, and it's kind of stupid to have a state where people can go there just because of their religion, that whole birthright thing...

what else...
oh yeah, keep your holy texts out of global affairs, it just makes a massive mess that leaves the land blood soaked.

[edit on 12/10/07 by madnessinmysoul]

reply to post by BlackProjects




...and depending on whose 'Spin' or what they want to express as a believable thoughtscape...
there's a 20 year 'generation'
a 40 year generation,
a 70 year generation,
a 120 year 'term of life'
bequeathed/ordained to men/women
(dependent on their religious 'rigor')- as the 'Qualifier'

~way too many variables... imo, a contrivance made 'after-the-fact'
to account for anomalies in the lifespans of individuals... with a greater
weight given to adhereants of that particular faith...~


i could-of/would-of/should-of.become a priest.
but that was a fantasy of a 10 yr old... i happend to grow up in the meantime!!

Originally posted by photobug
This would actually begin to fulfill the 2nd coming prophecy. In this scenario Israel would also gain full control of Jerusalem and especially the Temple Mount ushering in Israel's ability to rebuild the temple. Therefore the second coming is a bit further down the road but still within most of our life spans.

Thoughts, Opinions.........

According to my math, by the year 2023, add 3 years plus or minus error margin, the Temple will be rebuilt. To rebuild the Temple, the Abomination that Desolates the premises of Jews and the Sacrifice would have to be removed, which is the Dome of the Rock. When they do this, they will reinstitute the Sacrifice as in the old days.

This will be when Palestine is a state currently where the West Bank sits, still a terrorist slum but a state nonetheless. East Jerusalem, including the Dome (but not the Western Wall), will be their "capitol". When Israel rebuilds, it will break the peace, most likely 3 and 1/2 years into it, and seize the compound, ushering in massive warfare.

See this thread for my calculations on the year 2023 and the Dome of the Rock, which stems from the Book of Daniel:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 12/12/2007 by runetang]

This “religious” will you speak of, it matters not, to me, really, just the fact that they are liberalizing the area by spreading their borders is enough to make me happy.

In all honesty most Israelis fight more on the premise that it’s their country now more than religious will (and of course the fact that they are drafted regardless of gender at age 18). I’ve met three Israelis before, one agnostic, one atheist, one who was not very religious. All were Russian Jews, coincidently, but that doesn’t matter.

None I met actually hate Muslims, per say, but two of the three I questioned say they hate Palestinians, I didn’t ask the other. One even when I was complaining about Islam to her even defended it by saying that there are Muslims who live in Israel that are nice people (she was one of the people who even said she hated Palestinians, or in general that they did, yet still give them places to live. Then again, her English isn’t perfect…)

My other Israeli friend even said Israel supplied electricity to Gaza and if it weren’t for them they’d be powerless.

The traditional religious Jews like Haredi or Orthodox live in what could be considered special ghettos, within their own country, quite unusual.

And the majority of anti-Zionist Jews (well, to be honest all I've seen, but I say majority not to generalize) are the really religious, like Haredi, and are crazy fanatics who hate Israel primarily for it being secular and liberal. Those Haredi Jews that live in Israel even claim themselves that they are not happy with Israeli secular laws (same people that bombed that gay pride parade in Jerusalem last year and gained support from Muslims and I think some Christians in the area).

Anyone else wondering if this peace conferance is going to spark for conflict?

I became friends with a Palestinian girl in undergrad, and through our discussions I came to the realization that Israel as a state should not exist. I believe that Jews are good people and have spiritual connections to these "holy lands", but so do the muslims, and chrisitians. The muslims where there first, and as they say first come, first served.

There should be open elections where Jews and Palestinians are both allowed a vote. The Palestinian majority will win, and establish a secular state where jews, christians, and muslims will live in peace.

I know, I know, that idealogical thinking is nothing close to reality of what would happen, but one can only hope, pray, or wish a solution could be found. I think my idea is no less absurd than the current political situation. Israel as a nation would not exist if it was not for America propping up their regime.

[edit on 13-12-2007 by The Oak]

Originally posted by The Oak
and establish a secular state where jews, christians, and muslims will live in peace

Uh, HELLO?!

It's already secular, before Israel existed it wasn't, and the closest place to secularism near Israel is Lebanon, and thats mostly due to western influence.

I'm willing to bet that if the scenario you are describing went into place then well the secularism would go away completely, the Palestinians are not westernized in general, they kill homosexuals, it's a death penalty there.

Israel and to a lesser extent Lebanon are the only places where homosexuality is not a crime in the middle east; the only one I can think of in the region where it is not punishable by death is Kuwait, it's a ten year prison sentence if I recall.

And you know what, I don't care if the Muslims were there first, the area is better off now with a liberal government in place. Just read my previous post, completely, okay?

In fact the one thing that does irritate me about Israel is that they seem to just nancy around randomly and not pushing with full force, little treaties and bull and such, so yeah, if they actually went "THE PEOPLE AROUND US ARE BARBARIANS EXTERMINATE PURGE MWAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHA!!!" I'd be like KEWL! How do they just let these ingrates who plagiarized their religion and spread it around in worse forms just walk around freely?

I'd sure be pissed, but to be honest, the majority of Jewish people, in my experience, are so overly tolerant and accepting of other religious beliefs that it almost frustrates me. Mind you I'm speaking of the reform Jews that are all over the place here (Oh man how I love Jewish people for actually having the guts to invent a reform version; now if only Christians and Muslims did it...).

It's like they had any direct hatred and toughness beaten and oppressed and murdered out of them through centuries of persecution, I find it almost pathetic. And to be honest, neo-pagans too! They're afraid to say anything about another religion because they have enough people that hate them already for paranoid reasons they don't want to actually DO SOMETHING that would make people hate them, even if it is merely vaguely justified! None of them told me that, mind you, but that is really the impression a lot of them give me.

Look I'm generalizing...*sigh* I get the idea, you should too...

[edit on 12/13/2007 by Kacen]

reply to post by Kacen


Isaeli's pat themselves on the back for being a becon of democracy in the middle east, but keep the Palestinians from participating in the democracy process. Just seems hypocritical to me.

Would the area be better under muslim rule, probably not, because then you would have Jews constantly fighting the muslim controllers like the muslims now fight their jewish controllers.

I would argue that the Palestinians resort to terrorism because of the policies of Israel and us here in the U.S., and terrorism has always been the tool downtrodden people have used to bring change. It is their only option (as they see it). Defeating them will not happen militarily like you suggest, on peace will occur when the muslims are given back that which was stolen.

reply to post by The Oak


Where do you get the info the muslims were there first? Read this link please.www.freerepublic.com...

Besides that being the first somewhere does not make you the rightful owner. If that were the case you, I , 90% of Americans should get to packing.

reply to post by Daz3d-n-Confus3d


Good point, I never thought of the fact that myself as an American truly wasn't the first here and it doesn't belong to me. But I guess I would fight like hell if someone wanted to take my house and give back to native americans, so I guess you point rings true. Of course I am actually part Cherokee so maybe it does really belong to me.

See thats why I love ATS, you come here with positions and preconceived notions, and when put to the test you often see the fallacy of your own arguments.

With all that said, I would still in my heart like to see peace in the holy land and the muslims given more authority, but I guess that is wishful thinking. I doubt we will ever find a solution to peace. To much at stake for both sides I guess.