US Generals will 'quit' if Bush orders an Iran Attack

I am sorry if someone has already asked this, but if they all "quit" if Bush goes to war with Iran, won't they all go to jail? I would personally think that was awesome, but wouldn't the govt frown on that?

Originally posted by thematrix
If a president goes to war without the permission of congress and support of the people, he becomes a domestic enemy in breach of the Constitution of the United States.

If bush becomes a radical tyrant, then sure, the military shoudl react. These generals dind't say 'IF he doesn't get permission from congress, I will resign'.

What you say about Military having to be shot for even thinking or saying Bush should be overtrown for going ahead with a war thats, at this point, unconstitutional, your the traitor

We never said that it'd be over a war that congress refused to authorize. Bush needs congress to approve of large scale wars, clearly if he ordered an invasion of Iran, it'd be because congress approved of it. These generals are saying that they won't go. And if they were nutso enough to try to kidnap and overthrow the president, they'd pretty clearly be the traitors in that situation.

Right on Chop!
The line is drawn, and the curse it is cast.....
America was going back to Iran as soon as the Shah was deposed....There hasnt been a week go by that some determined effort hasnt been expended in getting back in the saddle there......they do have considerable oil, and lack the infrastructure to produce it.
Its a perfect set up for the unscrupulous oil giants to exploit if the gov can back them up with the firepower......
This IS the way the US does biz!.....Look at every other trading partner that the US gov has bullied and threatened and undermined in order to gain maximum corporate profit, or military advantage.
The problem is corporate sprawl and individual avarice.....
There is no honest men left!
Lever has made and broken goverments, alomng with united fruit and a host of other giant megalithic corporations whose sole aim is entirely devoid of human benefit......
The name of the game is world domination, and like it or not, that is the high stakes poker that George and co are gambling the future of your children and grandchildren on.
If we dont win this conflict by exterminating the enemy,and pillaging his countries economies,Enslaving the people to work producing their own natural resources for American Corporate profits while living in rags and eating our garbage;Then it will be US who will be doing it!
Either way the only winners will be the boards of directors and the stockholders.
The OIL is running low children, and nobody is going to live as high on the hog as we once did...........nobody but the filthy rich.........
Our resources will not be sufficient to get to where we produce enough alternative fuel, or cars and trucks to keep things rolling.
This is the beginning of the last convulsions of the corpse of the industrial civilization we have erroneously built and worshipped.Why we ever forgot that the worlds resources were infinite is a mystery....
But our extravagant waste of the worlds finest and best resources in fighting wars for a hundred years with the technological wonders that were supposed to benefit men instead of kill them.
Now we have had a wake up from the world scientists hah!where were they when their warnings enmass would have made a difference?
Now of course the problem is a thousand fold worse,in a thousand new ways.....!
Each link of the chain was important, and we have let so many links slip unnoticed through our fingers.....
Iran will be attacked according to con plan 8022....
Its IS drawn up and we have the best admiral available to run the bombardment and air attacks.
This seems so clean a way to solve the problem....just send some B2s and 117as,shoot some cruise missles from ships far from harms way.....
never even set foot on the ground......YEAH!???
Iraq is vulnerable now, but if iran sends a full compliment of agents provocateurs as well as regular army units to fight guerilla style the allies will be in deep kapookie in Iraq
The aim of the US command here must only be destabilization and partition of Iraq or they surely would have paid better attention to their war plans....
If the Kurds get kurdistan, and the sunnis get anbar +, nd the Shia get the provinses nearer iran, what percentage of the oil would be under american control?
The US can work with the sunnis,and the kurds, so maybe just maybe, they are attempting to lose the shia and the poorer provinces and keep the sunnis and krds....?
Meantime, a weakened (and make no mistake, even without nukes we can send them back a hundred years in time with conventional weapons....)
Iran,will take a long time to ever get the resources and cash to develop atomic weapons again.
The possibiliteis for victory, however much further away in time, remain open if the US attacks,But if we just withdraw, and leave Iraq, the Irani shia will be the dominant force in Iraq sooner or later.
(most likely sooner)
Did you see the news that Al maliki had written a letter to Moqtada and his very highest lieutenants and clerics to leave for IRAN to avoid AMERICAN
TROOPS CRACKDOWN??
He said he feared for their safety.....
Talk about playing BOTH sides.....
It is obvious to anyone who has been there that the SHIA will be taking over when the US leaves by hook or by crook!(but mostly by ethnic cleansing)
The same SHIA already RUN IRAN! what kind of stupidity is making decisions when they cant even see what the results of SIMPLE machinations will be?
HOW will the leadership of this drive to bomb IRAN screw up this campaign with faulty reasoning, and arrogant assumptions!
They could get a lot of ameriacns killed for nothing!
And incidentally, Americas allies too!


[edit on 25-2-2007 by bergle]

As the previous post outlines, there is no reason to invade Iraq unless we also invade / nuetralize Iran.

George W. Bush is pinocchio, james baker and friends are telling him one day he will be a real boy. And he wants so desperately to be a little boy that entire regions of the world are being laid waste.

The pitifull aspect is so many people believe the lies and fraud this administration perpetuates. Our President cannot form two coherent sentences or answer simple questions from the press corps and yet people support this ongoing tragedy.
Debt is skyrocketing under this President, foreign policy is dictated by interests other than best for the Nation. And still people defend the slow spiral downward.

Generals resign..? good for them. Somebody should stand up and be counted, heaven help us all.

So let me get the gist of the OP take on this. There are Generals in the US Armed forces who do not see Iranian activity in Iraq, their weapon systems development, their growing influence in Lebanon (via Hezbollah), Syria and Iraq and Iran's ambiguous at best Nuclear development as possible threats to US interests in the region. We are talking about a region that is vitally important to the US strategically, till Alternative energy makes the region irrelevant. Somehow the these Generals think that not only should we not attack, that it would be impossible to succeed in such an attack.

If Generals were to talk to me like that I wouldn't let them resign I would just take away their commands like Lincoln did in the Civil war. No need to have Generals on your team that think you can't win.

Generals in general see strategic threats rather easily and can come up with the tactics to take out those threats. They don't say "It can't be done", they find a way. If Iran continues to enrich uranium, there will soon be hardly any options left, diplomacy must kick it into high gear or else other options will be necessary to solve the problem. The UNSC has told Iran twice to stop and Iran has not only not stopped, it has increased it's enrichment of uranium. The UN stands to look once again impotent to stopping a crisis with meaningless half-measures that they don't even back up. What does Iran have to fear from the UNSC? absolutely nothing!

If this is true it makes you wonder if the Generals know something that we dont....

Faulty Chips Could Cripple U.S. Attack On Iran
www.willthomas.net...

Man I dont know if its true. Im not the biggest military buff here. But If china has infact intentionally sold us faulty chips to "get the upper hand" on the US, then an attack on irans nuclear facilities could potentially fry our equipment due to EMP.

the article states that its becoming better known amongst the military brass. So if those generals knew about this it would only make perfect sense to voice their objectivity in a possible fight against Iran.

Decide for yourself... I thought It was BS until I started reading into it a bit more. Now Im not so sure.

[edit on 122828p://2802am by semperfoo]

Originally posted by Infoholic
Did he or did he not prove that but only one man can do a lot.

He proved he was an idiot bent on suicide, meanwhile 100's were still massacred and the square cleared. They even ran over others with tanks and probably due to him pissing off the tank drivers. Yeah he did a lot, if you count fertilizing the ground with your bones a lot.




[edit on 26-2-2007 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by deessell

Originally posted by RRconservative

I doubt the Commander in Chief will be influenced by a few renegade Generals

And there in lies one of the major problems. Does it surprise you to know that there are many in the Military that are unhappy(for want of a better word) with the CIC? There have also been many "resignations". I believe that there is a growing dissatifaction with the current Middle East policy objectives within the Military. The possible threat of using Nuclear Pre-emptive strikes is also of concern to many people - Military and civilian.

Last I checked we where the last freaking military super power remaining on this god forsaken planet. Do you propose along with these pathetic excuses for military leaders that we cannot take on another sand filled state and their pathetic excuse for an army?

If we go to war and the generals quit be it for their own political belief, charge them with desertion, court martial the whole lot of them and lock them up for life.

Liberals need to stop living under a rock thinking if we loose a thousand men we are loosing the war.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by deessell

Originally posted by RRconservative

I doubt the Commander in Chief will be influenced by a few renegade Generals

And there in lies one of the major problems. Does it surprise you to know that there are many in the Military that are unhappy(for want of a better word) with the CIC? There have also been many "resignations". I believe that there is a growing dissatifaction with the current Middle East policy objectives within the Military. The possible threat of using Nuclear Pre-emptive strikes is also of concern to many people - Military and civilian.

Last I checked we where the last freaking military super power remaining on this god forsaken planet. Do you propose along with these pathetic excuses for military leaders that we cannot take on another sand filled state and their pathetic excuse for an army?

If we go to war and the generals quit be it for their own political belief, charge them with desertion, court martial the whole lot of them and lock them up for life.

Liberals need to stop living under a rock thinking if we loose a thousand men we are loosing the war.

Thankgod your kind of thinking died with the nazi's.


'' You dont follow our Cause? our LEADER in his great undertaking?... Lock him up, throw away the key.. .that will teach you to doubt our fuher.''

Your happy allowing Israel the bomb, because they are white... and they are sympathetic to your global take over.
You are not happy with Iran, because they dont like you.......

so you kill them...


im more scared there's people out there like you, than I am of Iran..

You want to convict generals, who have given their life for America, because they wont follow this 'illegitimate' president into another 'illegial war'

a 1000 men lost does not mean a wars lost, if the war is worth fighting.

hundereds of thousands lost is WORTH the defense of your country.
1 lost, is FAR TO MANY for a few mens greed.

you need to wake up and smell the coffee, because this war was lost, the second you went in, mainly because it was ILLEGIAL!

occupiers NEVER succeed

[edit on 26-2-2007 by Agit8dChop]

[edit on 26-2-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by Rockpuck

If we go to war and the generals quit be it for their own political belief, charge them with desertion, court martial the whole lot of them and lock them up for life.

you know what, if that happened I believe those generals would hold there heads high, and atleast die with DIGNITY.

they stood up for what was RIGHT, instead of following some STUPID illegial war, because they wanted to be patriotic.

Which are you?

Dumb enough to actually BELIEVE president bush?
Or scared enough to do it all for your 'patriotic - reality'
?

If the US goes to war,and they are locked up.
They are the hero's, people like you are mearly meaningless cannon fodder, which equals $$$ in peoples pockets.


Im glad youve chosen your course!

The Army has NO place in throwing their personal beliefs into their work.

They are to FOLLOW orders from the PRESIDENT of the United States alone. They are not to handed orders and then debate whether or not they want to follow them.

If you think that is Nazism then my friend you don't know what a Nazi is, which honestly would not surprise me. If the generals decide to make a public mutiny and mockery of our armed forces they should be locked away. Our comander and Chief does not take orders from the officer corps, they take their orders from him. No leader in their right mind would let this go unoticed, I would fire them all right now just for having this report come out.

Leave politics to politicians.

This is a collage of my comments about this subject. I don't know why but sometimes I feel the need to repeat myself.... it could be early onset old timers disease, but it is most likely because of some of the dim as a burnt out light bulb posts here that read as it the writer has never tried to think out the issues out to draw rational conclusions there from.

Originally posted by grover
Why is it everyone seems the only option for "dealing" with Iran is a military one? Because bush minor and his neo-con artists have a hair across their ass about Tehran we haven't even begun to attempt diplomacy. We have does at least that with North Korea.

All wars, all military actions are indictative of a failure at some level of diplomacy.

War should always be an act of last resort, not first choice. Only fools and bullies think otherwise.

There is considerable disagreement in the military about bush minor's policies... for example when the head of the joint chief of staff General Pace directly and publically contradicted, not once but twice the bush administration about "proof" that the Iranian government was supplying Iraqi Shiite insurgents ied's. That just doesn't happen unless there are some serious disenchantment between the top brass and the administration. The simple fact that there has been talk about this for awhile now is in itself significent. and if it happens it will undoubtably put the brakes on any further adverturism by bush minor and will probably start some sort of impeachment proceedings in congress.

I have said it once and I will say it again....bush is going to provoke a constitutional crisis of some sort before the end of the year.

First off the officer classes can resign anytime they want to after they serve their obligatory tour after officers school (college of OCS)... I think the tour is 6 years now but I am not so sure about that. They simply submit a letter of resignation and hand in their commission.

As for the generals being renegade, that is not true either. Resignation above a certain class or office or rank is and has always been the honorable and accepted way to register a protest about a policy or action that they feel is wrong.

As for invading Iran... no we cannot do it...if we do not have the sufficient forces to stablize Iraq, even with 150,000 troops on the ground we don't have a snowballs chance in hell with Iran even if we shut down every foreign base and send every soldier and sailor we have available to do it with. The country is 2 to 3 times larger than Iraq, it has a stable and well educated population and whether they like their government of not, just like us they will fight for their country. Also if we tried it we would be international parriah's for it and have no allies to help us out. Britain certainly won't. And there is not the support in the population at large for it as well.

I think it good that this is being floated. Give bush minor and his neo con artists something to stop and think about.

[edit on 26-2-2007 by grover]

Also according to a recent poll conducted by The Military Times, for the first time the majority of the troops on the ground disapprove of the way bush minor is conducting this war.

[edit on 26-2-2007 by grover]

"They are to FOLLOW orders from the PRESIDENT of the United States alone. They are not to handed orders and then debate whether or not they want to follow them"


No member of the Military is expected to follow an illegal order, or one that violates the Constitution of the United States. This is tragic to see, that people think the President has Carte Blanche in Government. Take a civics course fer heavens sake.


We hung Nazi war criminals because they FOLLOWED ORDERS.

If they quit ... Would that not be = to Treason ??? in Direct disobediance with thier Commander and Chief ... I cannot believe that this is/was allowed to be posted ... How woudl the COmmander and Chief handle such a disobediance ...

Originally posted by forestlady
I've known of more than one Army officer who quit because they were so disgusted with Bush and Rumsfield's handling of the military. And they have told me that there are alot of Army guys getting out.

Originally posted by el fuego
"They are to FOLLOW orders from the PRESIDENT of the United States alone. They are not to handed orders and then debate whether or not they want to follow them"


No member of the Military is expected to follow an illegal order, or one that violates the Constitution of the United States. This is tragic to see, that people think the President has Carte Blanche in Government. Take a civics course fer heavens sake.


We hung Nazi war criminals because they FOLLOWED ORDERS.

Exactly, the citizens and patriots are running out of options to stop this warmongering administration. Congress won't impeach them, people protest and no one takes any notice. The polls say people are unhappy. The only way to stop this insanity seems to be if the military refuses to fight.


Isn't war agression a crime?

Originally posted by el fuego
"They are to FOLLOW orders from the PRESIDENT of the United States alone. They are not to handed orders and then debate whether or not they want to follow them"


No member of the Military is expected to follow an illegal order, or one that violates the Constitution of the United States. This is tragic to see, that people think the President has Carte Blanche in Government. Take a civics course fer heavens sake.


We hung Nazi war criminals because they FOLLOWED ORDERS.

Exactly, the citizens and patriots are running out of options to stop this warmongering administration. Congress won't impeach them, people protest and no one takes any notice. The polls say people are unhappy. The only way to stop this insanity seems to be if the military refuses to fight.


Isn't war agression a crime?

All the deluded TREASON comments are hilarious.
You folks really need to read the definition of treason.

Officers can resign their commisions if they choose - one of the priviliges of rank & all that.

And while the military ought to keep it's nose out of politics, war with Iran is not just a political but decidedly a military issue. The US armed forces are in no position to engage in another middle east war launched on the basis of supposition and questionable intel - and that's a military issue not just a political one.

Source

The Constitution of the United States gives the title to the President of the United States, who "shall be Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States"

As Commander-in-Chief, the U.S. President outranks any military officer and so has the inherent right to assume command on the battlefield

I think this gives the right to President Bush to insist what he thinks is right even in a military strategy matters. Legally, he can force a General to follow an order even against the General's will.

He can, the General in question can also resign in protest.

That's the way it's always been.

Under the present war on terror and the way congress gave permission to Bush to fight it, bush can attack Iran . . . not necessity for any declaration because the war on terror is an on going war. . .

That is why congress is trying now to go back and stop it . . .