The Scottish Call for Independence!

I think it is a rubbish idea with long term consequences for both England and Scotland, as a united nation we are stronger and more powerful during a time in our history when such things probably aren't bad qualities for a country to posses, plus when I see Alex Salmond I keep thinking of Slobadon Milosevic, he buys into all this stupid nationalist crap and there's only one direction that can go in. By all means celebrate your culture be it English or Scottish or Welsh (I do) just recognise that as Britons we are stronger.

ok, Stumason. I was a bit hot-headed this morning.

Featured Topic

This thread has been selected as an AbovePolitics.com Featured Topic.

Applause worth 1500 PTS Points has been awarded for the original post.

UK types...educate this Yank on something.

In Parlament, then, when a vote arises on a Scottish matter, just the Scottish MPs vote on it? Is that correct?

Originally posted by befoiled
UK types...educate this Yank on something.

In Parlament, then, when a vote arises on a Scottish matter, just the Scottish MPs vote on it? Is that correct?

Scotland has its own parliament in Edinburgh (you might also hear it referred to as Holyrood, as that's the area of Edinburgh where the parliament building stands). It was formed after the newly-elected Labour government held a referendum in Scotland in 1997 asking Scottish people if they wanted their own parliament. Obviously they did, and now they have one.

It's powers are devolved from the UK Parliament, meaning that the UK Parliament can technically overrule any decisions taken by the Scottish Parliament (though this is very unlikely to happen, for obvious reasons). As such, its powers are limited - it can change tax rates slightly (a maximum of 3 pence per pound above or below the UK tax rate). It also looks after health and education in Scotland, but it has no say on issues such as defence, foreign relations and so on which are dealt with exclusively by the UK Parliament.

You can find more info here and here if you're interested.

[edit on 24/2/07 by Ste2652]

Thanks. It sounds complicated - much more so than our simple system of graft and influence peddling.

Yeah, it is. The UK has a fantastically complex and intricate way of running things, but at the same time it's very interesting to see how a system which has been around in some form or another for centuries has evolved and modernised yet still retains a lot of tradition (though, of course, there are those who argue that the UK's system needs a major overhaul... I disagree, of course ).

Don't let it put you off, though - I'd wager that a lot of Britons get confused too.

I like to watch CSPAN when the Prime Minister is taking questions from the House of Commons - what do they call that? Can you imagine the beating Bush would take from a class of sixth-graders, let alone a hostile congress?

It's called Prime Minister's Questions... often abbreviated to PMQs (or, if you want the official title, Questions to the Prime Minister). Happens every Wednesday that Parliament is sitting from noon for thirty minutes - basically it's one of, if not the highlight of an average week in British politics.

I gather it is pretty popular in the States... quite a few Americans I've spoken to and seen post on this board watch it.

Archives of each session dating back to 2000 can be found here, though I think you could probably dig up recordings of earlier versions on the net somewhere (I've seen a few recordings online of Thatcher in Prime Minister's Questions).

The link has been saved. Thanks.

Even if we break free from the freaken English, then will still be under Euro rule. I hope that just someone blowing smoke up our butts because
I've been to and love Scotland, I would hate to see it end up like Ireland.

Originally posted by boyg2004
Don't tell me... You have a shaved head, a St George tatoo, and fly a flag on your car as well.

Errr..Yes... (Without the flag)

Seriously though...I personally dont have the hatred directed at me in Scotland as im a Geordie, and for some strange reason they seem to love us! But during the world cup last year i noticed loads of anti-English remarks coming from even my closest friends.
Its a shame that some Scots feel this way, as what happened in the past is exactly that...THE PAST!
We are a union now and have been for hundreds of years...And we are far better off that way!


Mic

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by boyg2004
Don't tell me... You have a shaved head, a St George tatoo, and fly a flag on your car as well.

So what is so wrong about having the Cross of St George as a tatoo. Would you make the some implication of a Scot have his national flag as a tatoo?

Why can I not be proud of England just as a Scot is proud of Scotland. Just look at the 6 nations.

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
Why can I not be proud of England just as a Scot is proud of Scotland. Just look at the 6 nations.

I don't think anyone has said English people can't be proud of England - there's just a sort of stereotypical view that people who fly the St George Cross and so on are Chavs and football hooligans

It's just a bit weird, really... there seems to be this kind of victim mentality amongst English people that the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish can celebrate all they like but the English can't. I don't believe it's true and I don't understand it, and I say this as an Englishman myself (though I consider myself British over English, so that's perhaps part of the reason why).

Yes. I was trying to hit back at the 'wee haggis biting Jock McTavish dancing aboot in a kilt wae his skinflint ginger heid in the clouds' stereotype by pointing out that many English are wrongly percieved as either tatooed poncey knuckle-scrapers or upper-class hoorah Henry's.

Many in this great country are proud to be part of the union and it's the ability of the people of the United Kingdom to live together whilst conserving our historical cultural identities in a modern Kingdom which makes the whole arrangement unique and fantastic.

I don't have a single ounce of hatred for English people. I think annoyance is sometimes wrongly percieved as hatred. Yes, we are annoyed when the UK is referred to as England. And yes we are annoyed when the media will focus on a small incident in London whilst there is carnage and mayhem in Scotland. I am sure many in the North of England may have similar sentiments of an annoyance of the focus placed on the London area. But I have never heard a single person say 'I hate the English'.

God save the Queen and Rule Brittania!!!

Originally posted by C ROBERTSON
Bad Idea, we should keep the UK. The SNP are full of so much BS it's unbelievable, i personally cant stand Alex Salmond.

I don't wanna end up like Ireland.

Why do you want to keep the UK? Is it for personal economic reasons?
Why do you not want to be like Ireland?

Originally posted by Murphs
Why do you not want to be like Ireland?

Because Scotland is far from guaranteed to turn out like Ireland. It could go great, but at the same time it could go totally wrong and you can't compare the in 2007 to the situation when Ireland became independent.

You've got to remember that Ireland received its independence in 1922 - that's a long time ago, the world was a very different place and things have changed a lot since then. I would suggest that people who say "Well, Ireland did it so Scotland can too" are misleading both themselves and the people of Scotland.

Originally posted by Ste2652

Originally posted by Murphs
Why do you not want to be like Ireland?

Because Scotland is far from guaranteed to turn out like Ireland. It could go great, but at the same time it could go totally wrong and you can't compare the in 2007 to the situation when Ireland became independent.

You've got to remember that Ireland received its independence in 1922 - that's a long time ago, the world was a very different place and things have changed a lot since then. I would suggest that people who say "Well, Ireland did it so Scotland can too" are misleading both themselves and the people of Scotland.

I don't think the situation is any different. Ireland got its independence in '22 but didn't have a government or constituation until 1937. Its military was still British at that time.
It struggled under a very poor Catholic Church led government until the late 1960's. Then the government was morally and financially corrupt. In the 1970's Ireland (Republic) was designated a 3rd world country. I know that term is politically incorrect by todays standards but I am quoting history!
It was only when they joined the EEC preceeder to the EU that things began to change.
The joining of the EEC and the removal of the Catholic Church from politics was the beginning of change for Ireland.
In 30 years it has gone from a developing country to one of the richest countrys in Europe.
Yes they have a private healthcare system but even their public healthcare system is better provided for than the NHS.
Scotland is on a far better footing than Ireland ever were. They have an established Parliament. Strong trade and industry links and strong tourism links.
The Scottish nationalists are prepared to embrace the EU and in todays global economy that is the most sensible decision.
A country cannot stand alone anymore but being a member of the EU is preferable to being part of stand alone country at risk of collapse in future years.

Originally posted by Royal76
Even if we break free from the freaken English, then will still be under Euro rule. I hope that just someone blowing smoke up our butts because
I've been to and love Scotland, I would hate to see it end up like Ireland.

There is nothing wrong with Ireland and Scotland would benefit more from membership of the EU and the Euro, than a stand alone country with a failing currency.
Countries are lining up to adopt the Euro as a trading currency. The Dollar and sterling are losing their strength and have been doing for yours.

Originally posted by Murphs
There is nothing wrong with Ireland and Scotland would benefit more from membership of the EU and the Euro, than a stand alone country with a failing currency.
Countries are lining up to adopt the Euro as a trading currency. The Dollar and sterling are losing their strength and have been doing for yours.

But this is far from guaranteed. The SNP have basically assumed that they will be given automatic entry to the EU upon independence, but as this story from January shows, there's uncertainty over this issue.

And the Euro isn't anywhere near strong enough to overtake the dollar as the global trading currency just yet - the dollar has endured a number of economic crises over the years whereas the Euro has been lucky so far in that it hasn't been pressed. Most countries and businesses will probably stick with the dollar until the Euro has proved itself to be robust enough to weather any economic storms that head its way. That is part of the reason why the United Kingdom hasn't adopted the Euro (I emphasise the word 'part' before you all start coming at me with the other reasons )