The PentaCon

at about 100 feet (30 meter) high :



I have the impression this plane flew much slower than 857 km/hr.

This one even flew slower with full flaps out :



See the landing lights? But I don't believe this would give such a flash as in the Citgo video on that bright sunny day.

Watch the cockpit rim reflection in this video of the same 757 fly by fast :



And to top it off, this HIGHSPEED fly by of the same Boeing 757, at a BRIGHT SUNNY day, watch the split second FLASH of reflecting sunlight over the whole length of the top fuselage :




Another handy utility for those putting their trust in Firefox browser :
If you want to download YouTube or Google videos, and a lot (most) of other video sites, please look at this damn helpful FireFox plug in :
addons.mozilla.org...
Fast Video Downloader works easy and very good. It resides as an icon in your Task Manager bar at the bottom right.
Then you don't have to worry about disappearing videos again, always first download, then use FVD.

[edit on 16/3/07 by LaBTop]

LaBtop,

Interesting clips. I considered posting these a while back in support of my alternate flight path theory.

Look at your first clip again and picture the 757 pulling the same pitch up manuever only rotated 90 degrees to port. You would then have a very tight left hand high banking turn.

Even though the DFDR showed no more than 1.8 G, there is the issue of loss of data from the last few seconds of flight time during high G crashes.

I'm putting my high G turn flight path back in play.

I believe I can work out an approximate velocity for the 757 in your first video clip. I'll post when solved.

LaBTop,

On the last video, the sun reflecting off of the plane... can we make a hypothesis as to what part of the plane gave off that reflection?

Maybe darkbluesky's flight path could have been pulled off causing the sun to bounce back onto the car.

Speculation only, I'm not believing my own theories unless proven otherwise, just tossing it out there.

EDIT: Actually, I see how the sun bounces off and aims for the camera (highspeed video)

[edit on 16-3-2007 by BigMoser]

Anyone on to something yet? Just checking in on the crew.

That last video did sound like those from the WTC attacks, if I'm comparing the sounds correctly. The roaring sounds.

Q about the same topic, How much louder would the Pentagon plane be going at greater speeds?


If only someone would have the balls (and millions of money) to slam a boeing into something and compare the damage, just to help us out. (I'm talking about crazy speeds)



[edit on 19-3-2007 by BigMoser]

I have nothing to add. The speed of the 757 in LaBtops first video clip was only about 270-280 kts. So I guess it doesn't help my high speed high bank turn theory.

I have probably missed the explanation but:

Is there a time code on the Citgo video with the actual time?

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered.

Originally posted by johnlear
I have probably missed the explanation but:

Is there a time code on the Citgo video with the actual time?

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered.

4:44 on the youtube video slider

Originally posted by BigMoser

Originally posted by johnlear
I have probably missed the explanation but:

Is there a time code on the Citgo video with the actual time?

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered.

4:44 on the youtube video slider

Thanks, I meant realtime. Was it 9:31 when the Pentagon clocks stopped because of the original explostion, or was it 9:37 when ATC said whatever it was tracking crashed and the FDR said it was? Thanks.

The time code (if I am reading this right) on the Citgo video is on the top center, behind the big white numbers/letters of the vcr. You'll see the timestamp at the top center in a rectangle box.

Well, if the Citgo is dead on on the Pentagon time, then the plane hit at between 9:40 - 9:41 a.m.

Originally posted by BigMoser
Well, if the Citgo is dead on on the Pentagon time, then the plane hit at between 9:40 - 9:41 a.m.

Well the original time ATC had was I think 9:43. It was backed down to 9:41. It was further backed down to 9:37 to coincide with the FDR.

The Pentagon Helipad clock here:

americanhistory.si.edu...

shows 9:32. That was when the original explosion (not the missile or plane or whatever) went off. Either the explosion went off early or the missile, plane, (whatever) was late) but the problem for the government is that vexing delay between 9:32 to 9:37.

If the Citgo clock actually says 9:41 that would be extremely interesting because that would take the bomb-missile-whatever back to 9 minutes later than the original explosion.

The story that the clock on the Pentagon Helipad was 6 minutes slow is ludicrous to say the least.

I wonder why they couldn't keep with the track of time.. in my mind, everyone is off at some point or another, no matter how hard you try.

Were there any other reports of clocks stopped at a different time? Unless when it hit the floor, the hands kinda broke or got shoved back a couple minutes.

i couldn't figure out your angle on this untill i re-visited your " website "
today and got my answer .
"" Full 18 minute interview with April Gallop included as a bonus feature on the DVD ""
your gonna sell dvd's ! there's my answer .
there's no other way to say this but - people who try to profit from the
suffering of the friends and family of the victims of 911 make me sick !
yet again another creditless person making a dvd to profit from .
i may be wrong but just look at all the videos released by some yahoo
just to profit from terrorism . that " in plane site " guy , his o-so cleaver
use of the word " plane " . and how in the world did mr. avery come up with the title " loose change " ?
it's my belief that ALL 911 related material should be free . we've paid
enough in grief and blood to cover the cost of a dvd .
i think ALL the maker's of ALL these conspiracy related cd's and dvd's and book's should be forced to refund ALL the money made from this trash .
and that includes abc , cbs , fox , bbc , nbc , cnbc and pbs .
but's that's just m2c . there's just something about 911 that brings out the best and worst in people . to me that's the standard that all american's should be judged , on what side of the coin do you land . does it bring out
the compassion in you , or does it bring out the greed .
there's way too many people who see dollar signs and not the tombstones
that 911 represent .

[edit on 6-4-2007 by gen.disaray]

[edit on 6-4-2007 by gen.disaray]

It is available for free.

Go watch it.

People's choice to buy the dvd.

Its just up for an option, you don't have to buy it when it IS free to watch.

Great answer Jack.

This is the Pentagon heliport fire station clock which fell from its nail in the wall, caused by the explosion at the Pentagon on 9/11 :
americanhistory.si.edu...


One strange feature of the minute hand caught my eye, it is bended downward at the very end of it.
Don't know if this is a standard feature, if not, then it could suggest that the clock fell horizontally flat on its back on the fire station's floor.
Which contradicts the notion of Big Moser that the hands could have been forced down by the impact on the floor.
Another corroborating feature to indicate a horizontal impact on the floor of this clock, is, that the red seconds hand is also a tiny bit bend down, as you can see when you compare its red hand with its faint black shadow.
That thin shadow lays to the right of the minute hand's shadow, and runs down under an angle towards the end of the seconds hand.
Another observation : the rim of this clock doesn't seem to have any sign of impact damage at the 6 o'clock position.

Investigating minds wanted to know, so, I took the liberty of wasting my electric clock on the altar of Truth, and held it up in the air, vertically, at 2 meters high, set on 09:38:38 , and let it go.
And lo and behold, the minute hand shifted down to 9:32:34 by the force of the impact of the clock on the floor.
It subsequently spitted out its battery, so the clock stopped running and kept fixed on that time.
The clock hit the floor in an almost vertical position, and its rim bended a little on the 6 o'clock position

To be scientifically honest, the next experiment would have to be, to hang a clock on a vertical piece of cardboard on a small nail, and an assistant should kick the back of the board, to mimicry the oscillation of the fire station walls at the 9/11 moment of impact. And repeat this at least 20 times, to get a good idea of the tendencies of clock-body landings; vertically or horizontally.
Then we should record how many times the clock impacts the floor in a horizontal, or vertical fashion.
And how many times the minute hands will shift down, during vertical to horizontal impact occurrences.
Btw, this particular experiment hopefully could be done repeatedly with just one clock, when the minute hand down-shifting proved to be reversible, so not destructive to the mechanism of the clock.

Sadly enough, I ran out of clocks, and of willing assistants. They find it a waste of good functioning clocks, there for, this clock isn't allowed anymore to play along in any further experiments.
Most women are bad co-conspirators, by default, it seems.

So I appeal to other investigating minds to follow up on this intriguing theory, about the possibilities of shifting minutes hands and, horizontally against vertically floor-impacts of electric wall clocks.

Because I really would like to know if 2 clocks at the Pentagon both had an overwhelming tendency to:
a. land vertically
b. shift their minute hand downward at impact
c. get seriously damaged at the 6 o'clock rim-position.

If not all of these, then we are left with nothing else than to conclude that there were at least 2 explosions at the Pentagon, several minutes apart.
Or, that there is a concerting effort going on, to feed conspiracy sites with contradicting evidence, which I don't believe at all.

Thus : HELP NEEDED to exercise further experimenting.

EDIT :
This is the other clock which fell off the wall in the Pentagon itself :
physics911.net...


This one is undoubtedly heavily damaged, the rim even broke, at the 6 o'clock rim position.
What bothers me, why is the seconds hand not forced down in the same position as the minutes hand?

[edit on 20/6/08 by LaBTop]

reply to post by LaBTop


Got to admire your work LabTop

Your efforts are above and beyond what most would be prepared to put into this.

A couple of variables to consider with those clocks are the mass of the hands, the tightness of their attachment to the concentric driving shafts (highly variable as they're simply pressed on), the initial position and the angle that created in relation to the impact deceleration which determines the moment of torque they'd experience. A hand near 15 or 45 minute position would feel the most force for an impact at 6 or 12 o'clock position.

I agree with the poster above.

How likely is it that two *different* clocks are going to read the same time (to within a few seconds ) simply through an impact with the floor/desk/etc???

[edit on 20-6-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

To be precise, they differ 52 seconds in time.
Fire station clock : 09:32:31
Pentagon---clock : 09:31:39

Great thread!


CIT has been very busy since the creation of this thread and the original release of The PentaCon Smoking Gun Version.

A lot more information has been uncovered supporting our initial claims and further proving a military deception on multiple fronts.

On a return trip we were able obtain testimony and compile enough evidence to establish the true flight path of the infamous final loop the plane took.

Not surprisingly this evidence once again fatally contradicts the official data and reports as we can demonstrate how the plane originated from east of the Potomac River and flew over DC skies as supported by key witness Steve Chaconas and outlined in our full feature follow up to The PentaCon Smoking Gun Version titled:

The Pentagon Flyover - How They Pulled It Off

But we haven't stopped there.

I have recently returned from yet another trip to Arlington where we have obtained additional testimony further validating the north AND east side claims.

We are currently compiling this extremely important and explosive new information and will be releasing it very soon.

So although there were 4 independent north side eyewitness accounts originally presented we are now up to a total of 13 eyewitnesses supporting the north side claim while ZERO support the official south side flight path!

So the constantly asked question is "Where is a flyover witness?"

Well we now have one of those too!

Preliminary details are available here but we'll be releasing all of the data regarding this pivotal witness account in our new presentation coming out soon.

So with 13 north side witness and a flyover witness to boot there really can not be a doubt in any intellectually honest person's mind that this is where the plane flew.

The CITGO witnesses were not a fluke. EVERYONE who was in a position to tell saw the plane between the gas station and Arlington National Cemetery.

Stay tuned for the release of this extremely important critical new information that validates the north side evidence to the point of redundancy.