The "name" of your religion is the conspiracy.

A family member I seldom see visited us recently and asked I take him to church. "Of course", I say. Not being a church goer, I drove him around to find a local church he could visit while down in my neck of the woods. We found many churches but there was a rather angry refusal to visit any church that wasn't the right one, it was considered a no no. The ensuing debate left me in complete bewilderment but as usual, you can't be objective with religion without an argument, another bizarrity* of this world we live. (*yeah, I don't know if that's a word but I like it).

When I was 5 or 6, a friend asked if I wanted to go to catacism (sp?). I had no idea what it was but it seemed kinda cool, so I went. I don't recall much of it but it was relatively interesting and enjoyable and so the stage was set for confusion when I arrived at school with my friend to be chastised by a teacher for going there when I was Church of England. I didn't even know I was C of E, how did the teacher know and what the heck was she talking about anyway. So I never went again.

Maybe I will understand one day how anyone can put a name to their beliefs. I won't be straight jacketed into a label. When researching religions, my beliefs do and seems always have crossed many of the religions. I didn't realise how close to one another many of the religions actually are which makes the division -almost- comical.

Divide and Conquer! It is the label itself that creates the division. Take a religion, perceive one or more facets slightly differently and give it another name, cling to that label and assume the role that your path is the right one. Most of the mainstream religions are derivatives of one another and have so many similarities, I can't quite get my head around why there is a need to belong to a label, especially at the dis association of another label, yet they are almost the same. There are even threads here about should this or that be a new religion... why? why the need to form another pigeon hole to shepherd people into so they can be pointed at because of a difference and then argue who's right and wrong and whilst getting buried in the detail, the point is completely missed.

Why can't we believe in all the things we want without labelling it. We don't have to get rid of religion, just get rid of the names and accept that we are all just people. I can't believe that we can all hold different beliefs in anything and not get along. Just because we don't agree, doesn't mean we can't be friends.

I don't give a hoot if you think Jesus is the Son of God or if Mohammed is the man or if Allah is your thing. I don't care if you have one God, eight Gods or no God. I will still help you if you need it.

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that for once, we all start practising what we preach and love thy neighbour, bury the differences and go about our lives without the division caused by a word, a name? I'm not proposing a one world religion either, that's equally bizarre and still wants to straight jacket beliefs and shoe horn the masses into a label.

Shed the silly names, get real and let the world unite. It would be the biggest step forward in history and will be carrying out the very message these religions are supposed to be teaching but failing at, on a grand scale.

It all just seems really silly. What am I missing?

You have voted Prote for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Awesome post man, everything from the beginning to end made perfect sence to me

*rant*people will always find an excuse to seperate and segragate. relgion, race, you name it, we'll always seperate ourselves from the next guy one way or another then argue why his/her relgion is wrong or why his/her race is inferior or why his/her basketball team is cheaters, etc. as much as i hate it and detour from it as much as possible thats just how the world is, thats how its been and unfortunatley for people like you and me thats how its always going to be

Labels are convenient language devices.

Labels are used instead of saying "That's the group of people who believe x, y, z ... (insert long list of beliefs) and don't believe a, b, c ... (insert long list of disbeliefs)." This could literally become paragraphs and whole volumes.

So it is much easier if a bunch of people are pretty similar to create a label for them like "The Believer-ites" or the "Star-Bellied Sneetches" or whatever. Then everyone knows who you are talking about without having to hear the whole spiel.

Unfortunately, people like Mr. Sylvester McMonkey McBean come along and start making boatloads of hoopla and moola by pitting them against each other.


I personally have two REALLY broad labels to group religious people up:

1. Those who seek understanding, truth, light, love and divinity.
2. Those who don't and/or who work against that.

Like you pointed out. A great majority of the beliefs of the people in group 1 coincide very nicely. I like to focus on that when it comes to dealing with people who are not in my labeled religion group. We have soooooo much in common, it's really sad when the differences are used as wedges by Mr. McMonkey to pit us against each other. He is definately in the worse end of group 2.

Group 2 people aren't "evil" per se IMO, most just don't really care. That's fine.

Prote Quote
"I'm not proposing a one world religion either, that's equally bizarre and still wants to straight jacket beliefs and shoe horn the masses into a label."

Here it seems you are opposed to a one world religion....

Prote Quote
"Shed the silly names, get real and let the world unite. It would be the biggest step forward in history and will be carrying out the very message these religions are supposed to be teaching but failing at, on a grand scale. "

And here in the next paragraph it looks as if that is what you are proposing...

I agree that religion should not directly work against/oppose religion, especially different sects whom believe the same basic principals.

Maybe you should look to attend a Non-Denomination church sometime. They seem to be about the best for what I would call religous tolerance of other groups.

I think if you would ask a self proclaimed Christian or Catholic or Baptist or Methodist if any of the other forementioned religions followers are saved or going to heaven the answer would be the same for all of them.

It should be the same as long as the core belief is the same, the rest is just details and they happen to be interperted slightly differnt between groups.

Now if you ask the same group of people above if a Buddist or Muslim etc. is saved or going to heaven etc. I think the answer would be that it depends on thier core belief.

Anyhow you cant lump people together even if they subscribe to one denomination or faith or another. Within those groups there will be some who get it and some who dont.

God is not to be contained within any 4 walls of my or anyone elses church.

Originally posted by Prote

It all just seems really silly. What am I missing?

You're right it is very silly.

Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same god - and will kill each other because of it. Within those 3 branches there are numerous groups and sects who will also kill each other. For your god's sake why????

It's a bit like going to a concert and everyone being segregated according to which of the band's albums they prefer most. Or those who prefer an author's second novel bombing those who think his third one was better.

I too am just worn out by the very words "religion" and "Christianity" (and I try to follow the teachings of Jesus) For one thing, the word "religion" lessens and waters down what I believe; it conjures up an image of a "pie chart", and religion is just one slice in the pie-chart of your life, along with job, family, recreation, etc., when really, my Faith in God IS my whole life; there is no name for that. Also, I can't just point to one denomination and say, "I guess I'm closest to those guys, so I must be a so-and-so(fill in sect here). I'm very weary of names/sects, weary of infighting, weary of man judging man, especially among those who claim to be spreading the "Good News". I'm weary of those who would try to bring heaven to earth, when the very Book they're preaching from says it is not to be so.

And Perfect Fifth, I sometimes think your 2 "broad labels" are pretty close to the mark, BTW.

Biotic, thank you!

Originally posted by Biotic
people will always find an excuse to seperate and segragate. relgion, race, you name it

Yes, there are many methods of segregation, patriotism is one where many fear to tread and religion is another of the biggies. Sometimes all it takes is an alternative angle to make a difference.

Originally posted by Perfect Fifth
Labels are convenient language devices.

Labels are used instead of saying "That's the group of people who believe x, y, z ... (insert long list of beliefs) and don't believe a, b, c ... (insert long list of disbeliefs)." This could literally become paragraphs and whole volumes.

So it is much easier if a bunch of people are pretty similar to create a label for them like "The Believer-ites" or the "Star-Bellied Sneetches" or whatever. Then everyone knows who you are talking about without having to hear the whole spiel.

I see what you're saying here but I don't think that's a strong enough reason to divide the world into so much division and hatred. When we go about our daily lives, beliefs simply don't come into it except for how we interact with others, religion should be much more of private issue than a public one (with the current status quo). Beliefs are like fingerprints, they are all unique to us, it doesn't matter what label you have and the label should have no bearing on how you view or treat any individual. But I know we are singing from the same hymn sheet... ok, bad joke!

Thank you for your post.

Originally posted by tnt3kgt
Here it seems you are opposed to a one world religion....

I most certainly am. Religion is personal and not for the masses. There's no way 6 Billion people or more from all walks of life and culture will agree on a belief system and any attempt to do so will screw the world up further, create more division, it's a nightmare just thinking about it.

Originally posted by tnt3kgt
Prote Quote
"Shed the silly names, get real and let the world unite. It would be the biggest step forward in history and will be carrying out the very message these religions are supposed to be teaching but failing at, on a grand scale. "

And here in the next paragraph it looks as if that is what you are proposing...

Well, first.. Prote Quote.. I like that! To answer your point though, no, this does not mean a one world religion. I have many friends who's beliefs differ radically from mine. This does not mean that we are unable to unite in any other fashion we see fit, whether that is world peace or teaming up to carry an old lady's shopping. Religion doesn't come into it.. or rather shouldn't be any determining factor at all.

We should be uniting in peace and harmony regardless, or even in spite of religion. After all, that's one of the core messages of most, if not all religions but I don't see it happening on any kind of scale to make a difference.

Originally posted by tnt3kgt
I agree that religion should not directly work against/oppose religion, especially different sects whom believe the same basic principals.

But they do, this is exactly what's happening on a global scale and it's the wrong way round. IMO.

Originally posted by tnt3kgt
Maybe you should look to attend a Non-Denomination church sometime. They seem to be about the best for what I would call religous tolerance of other groups.

Why? I uphold a strong set of moral and ethical values. I know what's right and wrong, I don't need to be told. Are you saying I need to attend a non denomination church so I can have religious tolerance? I would suggest that it IS me that holds that viewpoint and NOT those that wish to subscribe to a fixed set of teachings or values. As it happens, I have actually been to many different types of Church, recently too and the more I learn, the more distance I see in the understanding of those I converse with and the way I see the world, hence the post. If that means I'm going to hell in their eyes, that's ok too because I don't believe what they believe. Even if they WERE right, there's going to be as many nice people in hell as there are in heaven. How does that work?

Are we judged on beliefs or our actions towards others?

Originally posted by tnt3kgt
I think if you would ask a self proclaimed Christian or Catholic or Baptist or Methodist if any of the other forementioned religions followers are saved or going to heaven the answer would be the same for all of them.

It should be the same as long as the core belief is the same, the rest is just details and they happen to be interperted slightly differnt between groups.

Now if you ask the same group of people above if a Buddist or Muslim etc. is saved or going to heaven etc. I think the answer would be that it depends on thier core belief.

That's called judgement and I do not believe it is the place of a mortal to judge these issues. It doesn't matter what religion you are, a portion of people from all the religions will succeed in this life and a portion of all religions will not succeed, despite their best efforts. This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion though, I have seen it argued that in this case, whole swathes of the Earths population will go to hell for subscribing to another belief system. Who really, deep down believes that ALL muslims or ALL christians or whatever will fail, regardless of how they conduct themselves? Enlightenment and the true path is available to EVERYONE, it is not an exclusive club, that's the message here, irrespective of which scripture you follow.

This Earthly test is passable by anyone of any faith and failable by anyone of any faith.

Does anyone disagree with this?

Originally posted by tnt3kgt
Anyhow you cant lump people together even if they subscribe to one denomination or faith or another. Within those groups there will be some who get it and some who dont.

That's what I'm saying. Perhaps it's those that don't but claim they do that are the problem. I would accept that but then I would want a caveat because those are the majority and these denominations need to sort their ranks out and teach everyone the path of peace and forgiveness which they are supposed to be doing anyway.

Originally posted by tnt3kgt
God is not to be contained within any 4 walls of my or anyone elses church.

That's the problem. It is obvious to the world that most of us simply cannot get along for this very reason. I would say that until these "God's" learn how to get along with one another, that's exactly where they should be. EVERY religion is a minority. The biggest religion in the world is say 1-2 billion which means that even the biggest religions of them all are still outnumbered by (at least) 3 to 1.

So what you are left with is a minority thinking the majority is wrong but not just wrong, they need saving and going to hell. Throw in a global communication system like the web and media and you have a whole load of problems until we learn to accept each others differences. There's the problem right there.

Originally posted by Essan
Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same god - and will kill each other because of it. Within those 3 branches there are numerous groups and sects who will also kill each other. For your god's sake why????

It's a bit like going to a concert and everyone being segregated according to which of the band's albums they prefer most. Or those who prefer an author's second novel bombing those who think his third one was better.

Well, of course I agree.

I had hoped to put a post up that wasn't inflammatory, I wanted to avoid the "Religion Sux, Ban them all" tact because I actually think they serve an important purpose and that attitude gets us nowhere. What is obvious to you and I is not going to be obvious to many others. The saddest thing from my perspective and the reason I wrote the OP was simply because the line between the disharmony in the world and peace is such a fine line, peace is there to be had... if we want it. My confusion is that the more I get into all of these religions, the more it seems totally obvious that most people aren't practising the most basic of all the lessons that these religions seem to want to instill in us.

Thanks for your post.

Originally posted by Eyes2see
I too am just worn out by the very words "religion" and "Christianity" (and I try to follow the teachings of Jesus) For one thing, the word "religion" lessens and waters down what I believe; it conjures up an image of a "pie chart", and religion is just one slice in the pie-chart of your life, along with job, family, recreation, etc., when really, my Faith in God IS my whole life; there is no name for that. Also, I can't just point to one denomination and say, "I guess I'm closest to those guys, so I must be a so-and-so(fill in sect here). I'm very weary of names/sects, weary of infighting, weary of man judging man, especially among those who claim to be spreading the "Good News". I'm weary of those who would try to bring heaven to earth, when the very Book they're preaching from says it is not to be so.

Hello Eyes.. I think you raise some good points. There are many facets to our lives, religion being one of them but without religion in my background, I have found a path which does not exclude anyone based on any single element of their being, that includes religion. I refuse to condemn another because of their God or what Church they attend, I am simply putting forward that others do the same and by that I am making the suggestion, no one will go to hell if they don't believe me.

Thank you everyone for posting, especially tnt3kgt who has brought alternative viewpoints than simple agreements and didn't go off on one.