'Sport Killings" of the homeless on the rise

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I don't know what to say to people who don't believe in spanking a child.. I guess the only thing I can say, I disagree.

That's about all you can say. This problem doesn't come about because of individual parenting techniques. It's so much larger than that. The violence I'm talking about isn't a parenting swatting a child. We shouldn't even be talking about that.

It's about the WORSHIP of violence in the culture. TV, movies, video games, war... not slapping Johnnie on the butt because he got into the flour and messed up the kitchen...

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, "timeouts" and psychobabble bull* certainly isn't the answer. It's the problem.

This is all a part of the "iron fist" approach right? We'll beat them into knowing what the right thing to do is? Anything else is a weak, pitiful excuse on behaviour modification? Certainly any attempt to understand the cognitive aspect of this tragedy is ridiculous. Let's just give them a boot in the ass and call it a day. Punishment is not retribution. There is little to no restitution provided in the punishment that the justice system enforces. The restitution that, we as a society look for, comes from understanding the cognitive approach involved here. This way we may be able to prevent any future murders of this sort.

Maybe we could use more "psychobabblers" and less prison guards.


[edit on 22-2-2007 by chissler]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's about the WORSHIP of violence in the culture. TV, movies, video games, war...

The problem with that idea is, people like myself grew up watching horror movies and the news, and I have never killed anyone. No, I think violence goes back to upbringing. I am sorry, i just don't see any way around it.. All of this stuff about it being due to music and movies is just circumventing the real issue in my opinion. Parents don't raise kids anymore, kids are raising themselves. They come home to empty houses because mom and dad both are working so they can buy the 300,000 dollar home and drive the 50,000 dollar vehicle. In the meantime, their kids have no guidance. That is the bottom line.

Originally posted by chissler
Maybe we could use more "psychobabblers" and less prison guards.


[edit on 22-2-2007 by chissler]

Oh, so you think that is the answer to the overcrowding of the prisons,eh? Let's just agree to disagree. Okay?

SoT, it's not about movies and video games causing this to happen. It's been happening long before this technology arose. The problem lies with what has become the standard for American society. If one is not perceived to be on an equal ground with another, they are perceived to be not as important, or human, or whatever by the person who believes they hold the higher ground. It's that our society glorifies that. Look at the news. How often is it implied that our enemies aren't quite human, or as human as us at least. They are savages who deserve what they get.

When someone on equal footing with another, it's harder to hurt or kill them. We show this in video games, and movies. They are alien, or Nazi, or monster, or gangbanger, and we kill them because it's okay.

The games and movies aren't the cause, just a symptom.

And as for the prison population. The majority of those incarcerated are in because of minor drug crimes. Spanking on the bottom is not going to get people to stop smoking crack.

Originally posted by chissler
We'll beat them into knowing what the right thing to do is?

From someone who was beaten, there's a difference between a spanking and a beating, iron fist, kick in the ass. Trust me. I wish I had been spanked.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
The problem with that idea is, people like myself grew up watching horror movies and the news, and I have never killed anyone.

Yeah, I did, too. I'm not saying that violence worship is the only factor. As you said:

Parents don't raise kids anymore, kids are raising themselves. T

That's definitely another factor.

As are the NEED for every kid to have a cell phone, an ipod and their own TV AND computer, the leniency in parent's attitudes toward kids who disobey (regardless of the method used to handle it) and the idea that money can buy happiness in the form of designer jeans, shoes and other possessions.

Plus I'm sure there are many more.

[edit on 22-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Oh, so you think that is the answer to the overcrowding of the prisons,eh? Let's just agree to disagree. Okay?

What?

The answer to what is overcrowding of the prisons? You've completely lost me.

What I am saying, is that maybe we need some individuals to take the moment and understand why it is people are behaving the way they are. It is not enough to simply punish them and hope to curb the behaviour, in others, in the future. We need to understand the thought process that is involved. I know the title of this thread refers to the behaviour as a "Sport", but that does not cover it completely. There was a reason these individuals felt compelled to do this. Sending them to prison for fifteen years does not answer the question to why they did this. With a few "psychobabblers", maybe we can understand why they did what they did, which can prevent others from doing it in the future.

[edit on 22-2-2007 by chissler]

Chissler, I don't have a problem with what you are suggesting. However, there is not any specific reason why some people do what they do. What possible reason could a person have for going out and beating up or even killing some poor homeless person that many times has never done a damned thing to anyone? There is no understanding that kind of behavior.

Is there any understanding a mind like Charles Manson? Is there any real understanding of a person like Ted Bundy? I say probably not. Hell, these guys don't even understand it themselves. Ted Bundy tried to figure out what made him "tick" on up until the day that he died. Was he successful? If he was, he never announced it.

What makes you so sure that these psychologists and psychiatrists can figure it out. Chissler, according to my psychologist, I am a very "sick" individual. I have been diagnosed as being:

(A) Mildly to moderately depressed
(B) Borderline Personality Disorder
(C) Social Phobia disorder

My psychologist came close to diagnosing me with Schizoid personality disorder,but refrained. Instead, she labeled me with Borderline personality, which is for all intensive purposes about the same thing.

Yet, I don't go out and do many of the things that others do. Why? Simple.

The Difference In The Way I Was Raised. I was taught that there are consequences to our actions. Many people, especially the youth of this country and world, are not taught this.

There is a reason for everything. Even if a behaviour does not appear to have one on the surface, one does exist. It may be absurd, completely ridiculous, and be completely misguided on behalf of the culprit. But we always have a reason for behaving the way we do. Even if we do something for "no reason" at all, the "no reason" is the reason. Manson, Bundy, Son of Sam, Zodiac, BTK, etc., all had a reason for their behaviours. I think their minds are demented to the extent that any current approach would not even break the skin of their minds. But deep down, a reason does exist.

To prevent these in the future, we need to get to the reason.

What is wrong with people today? Are they getting more and more wicked as time goe's on? In general it seem's most people attitude stinks. Unless something effects them then they really don't care. As long as it 's not one of their relatives or friends so what? Well one day it could be them. Sleeping rough somewhere with no money, food, and no hope. Being spat at and riddiculed for being a tramp. Being beaten up for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Moved on by the police,because one is making the place look untidy! Is it a crime to be poor? There are too many question's and not enough answers. One thing is for sure it does'nt matter how much our governments say that they care, believe me they don't. Our citizen's rich and poor deserve answers and action fast. From cradle to the grave our citizen's no matter who they are deserve better. As for these mongols who go round hurting and maiming and killing for sport, maybe they should have a taste of being homeless and see how long they last. We are the only animals on the planet that kill for pleasure/sport.How sick is that? Wake up everyone before it's too late!

Originally posted by happinness
What is wrong with people today? Are they getting more and more wicked as time goe's on? In general it seem's most people attitude stinks. Unless something effects them then they really don't care. As long as it 's not one of their relatives or friends so what? Well one day it could be them.

Very true. That is one of my criticisms of people in general. My family for example. The majority of my family members don't keep up with world events. Somehow they naively think that it doesn't affect them. So they are quick to say, "I couldn't care less about what is going on. It doesn't affect me." AuContraire. It does and it will. By the time they realize this, it will be too late for them though.

You don't "teach" with violence.

How would you like it if the next time you slacked at my workplace, I 'taught consequences' with abusive violence?

I hope that would be acceptable, if not tough

We're not in the victorian days anymore folks, yet human nature still tends to abuse those who are not on an equal level, only call it something else.

Sick really.

Just to show you that the media doesn't have much of an effect on youtyh:

In 1965, Albert Banderas did an experiment for Stanford University.

He took a bop doll and showed three groups of kids three different versions of someone beating on this bop doll.

Guess what? The ones who saw the kids that were beating on this bop doll get rewarded or have no consequences, they copied the actions they viewed. The ones who saw the kids being spanked for beating on the bop doll... Dum, Dum... Guess what... They didn't copy the actions of the kids that were spanked. Again, it has more to do with parenting and upbringing than it does with society or violence in the media.

[edit on 26-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Verify this story in this book...




It's in the Media Uses and Effects chapter

Hi Nygdan

The people that do these kinds of purely anti-social crimes are the very types that need to be executed. These yahoos took a conscious step outside of the bonds of society and then attacked it. They're worthless. I can understand crimes of passion, I don't condone it, but at least I can see that a person that commits a crime of passion and the like doesn't have an abnormal personality or a criminal mentality. These dumb goons clearly do.

And the best/worst part is, imagine what these yahoos would've become if they'd never been caught for murdering this bum. What part of society would they find themselves in, and what would they be doing and responsible for? How many people in positions of power and influence of various sorts today are basically these dumb kids?

I can tell you they probably would have gone on to be corporate leaders, the kind that people look up to with their families in the suburbs. The only reason they did this is that there was a pretty good chance they would get away with it.

The homeless are a second class citizen. They are disappearing from the street of many cities, homelessness is becoming almost illegal or a crime, and much of society does not care what happens to them.


Hi groingrinder

If people want to kill somebody, then how come they don't kill somebody who actually deserves it? Like gang bangers. We should have an open season on known gang bangers. Anyone with two arrests for gang activities should be fair game for "community action". Their pictures and known hangouts should be put on a poster to be published in the neighborhood they live in so everybody knows the game is on. We should start with MS13, then move on to the Bloods and Crips and other lesser known thugs.

Homeless people are innocent. Don't kill them.

Right so homeless people are off limits in your opinion for "community action", but gang bangers are open season. Well tell you what, in the opinion of these three creatures, homeless people were not off limit, they were just second class citizens to be taken out, probably by the same community action initiative that you speak of.

The same one that is causing vigilante pockets in some sectors of our societies.

Some sectors of our societies that feel ethnics are open to community action, people who they see as different as themselves, suspicious, or who they view as second class citizens.

Yeah publish people's posters in the neighbourhoods where they live so that everyone knows that the game is on. Is this the same game where they then get to be followed around, treated like animals and ran from community to community, because a bunch of vigilante know it all, decided that they would be fit for some hit list, guilty or not?

Just curoious.

This must have been what Hitlers Brown Coats thought. So people like you and your community action posse get to determine who's posters to put up and who the game is on for? Must be nice.

You might have missed it, but in my opinion, it's this changing mentally in society, the same mentality that allows people to make games out of other people's lives, and to allow them without conscience to hunt people down in the communities where they live, to stalk and mob them, it's the same mentality that allows these merciless killings. Wither by direct physical assaults or psychological cohesion, to me it's all part and parcel of the same thing that is infecting, and has infected society.

Those that are part of it, probably won't see it, and are all too quick to go, we are not a part of this, but as long as you support such happenings, you are, wither you do the direct killings or not.

Just an opinion.