Changed mind on Freemasonry

Originally posted by Nammu

Is that it? Is that the major secret? I guess being a girl i'd never find out......

Your a girl? I was just about to tell you everything until you said that
Seriously though I think the main reason no girls are allowed is to keep us boys out of trouble. As masons we try to subdue our passions and focus on civilized behavior. We do not talk about religion or politics in lodge because they cause division and argument. A pretty young lady in the lodge would be our downfall
As for the secrets, we keep them out of tradition. For hundreds of years, masons have occasionally left the fraternity and blabbed all the secrets. After the internet came along, it just became more convenient to blab. You see? With members who leave occasionally, how could there be information that remains a secret?

Originally posted by nextguyinline
As long as there is secrecy in Freemasonry, there will always be distrust.

See above.

The freemasons should freely open all their ceremonies to the curious.

I think the right to have a private meeting is an important liberty. Would you like devil worshipers in your church documenting your activities so they know who to curse?

Secret brotherhoods have always been, are, and always will be, scary to those who don't belong.

I agree, but Freemasons aren't secret.

Doesn't change the fact, that there is secrecy in Freemasonry. Your organisation will always be mistrusted as long as there is. Just stating the obvious.

I don't go to church, but the church ceremonies I've attended have always been open to the public. You can walk into any church and attend what is happening. I cannot walk into a Freemason lodge and attend the ceremonies.

I would believe that women aren't allowed in Freemasonry because of tradition. - The tradition that women cannot handle a man's serious conversating.

I don't go to church, but the church ceremonies I've attended have always been open to the public. You can walk into any church and attend what is happening. I cannot walk into a Freemason lodge and attend the ceremonies.

Thats not really true. The vatican is the most highly secretive church in the entire world. The public has no idea what goes on behind closed doors. I think you can make more of an argument of roman catholiscm being satanic due to the long list of victims worldwide. Where are all the victims of the claims of the alleged freemasonry ritual abuse? They just don't exsist. Compared to thoasands of children victimized by Catholic preist.

Note: I am not trying to put down catholics just using the situation as an example.

[edit on 22-2-2007 by rich1974]

Originally posted by nextguyinline
As long as there is secrecy in Freemasonry, there will always be distrust.

What secrecy? Everything that the Mason's believe has been written about... All of this "Masonry is a secret society" stuff is codswallop!!

[edit on 22-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I think it's great that masons say their is so much disinformation. Anybody who trust some one who takes a oath about cutting ones throat, removing ones end trails, and all the other garbage ritual has to be kidding. If these oaths about keeping secrets are just words, as masons say, lets hear about the password you recieve after the Hiram Abiff joke ritual. Lets talk about its meaning. Or lets talk about that actual meaning of the symbols. I could careless about the charity garbage that's just a front. Religious Tolerance that's a joke. There will never be religious tolerance. You indeed have secrets that you will not tell so you are a society with secrets. You are an occult brotherhood and masons fit nicley into this definition. Just because Washington and all the other clowns were masons, made, and signed the constitution doesn't mean I have to trust them or you. And all the secret handshakes and passwords to know who's what...That's kids stuff. Most normal people gave that up when we were 8. It's nice to know grown men still practice that crap

Originally posted by nextguyinline

Doesn't change the fact, that there is secrecy in Freemasonry. Your organisation will always be mistrusted as long as there is. Just stating the obvious.

Yup, I guess you are right though some in depth study will reveal them. That is how I ended up a mason

I don't go to church, but the church ceremonies I've attended have always been open to the public. You can walk into any church and attend what is happening. I cannot walk into a Freemason lodge and attend the ceremonies.

Can't argue that but would you want to make it illegal for two or more people to meet in private?

I would believe that women aren't allowed in Freemasonry because of tradition. - The tradition that women cannot handle a man's serious conversating.

The Knights Templar at one time admitted women into their ranks but this ran them afowl of the Vatican and they yielded to the pressure. And since Freemosonry draws on Templar history along with the stonemasons it became tradition. I think most masons agree that there is nothing wrong with women having their own lodge but each should have the right to meet with only their own gender should the so choose.

Of course there is secrecy in Freemasonry. If there wasn't, this forum wouldn't exist, for example.

I don't think Freemasonry is nefarious per say, but to say there is no secrecy in the organization is awfully....wrong?

If Freemasonry had a central body, that was secret, and the rest of the lodges were open to the public, then I can see how relating it to the Vatican would work. But I cannot walk into a Freemasons lodge, the same as I could with the many different churches around town. In fact, and it's probably changed, I remember when churches were unlocked all the time. As a teenager, I would walk into many, at all hours, just to admire the architectures. The personal quarters and such, were almost always locked, but I could get into the main areas with no problem.

I've often thought about maybe joining the Freemasons for the comradery and perhaps a little social guidance, but have since found I don't need it.

Of course I don't think it should be illegal for more than two people to gather at one place. I hate logic jumps like that. I don't think legislation is needed to force the Freemasons to open the ceremonies and such, I just think secret clubs, in a free society, are kinda childish. The comradery should come from working together (as I'm sure most of it does), not the fact that we share secrets. Handshakes or otherwise.

Originally posted by nextguyinline
Of course there is secrecy in Freemasonry. If there wasn't, this forum wouldn't exist, for example.

Where? Don't give me this "secret" handshake stuff because that doesn't even qualify in my opinion.

Speaker, please stop championing the Freemasons on this board. They can speak for themselves — and please stop swelling your chest when posting to me. I'm not an aggravator.

Perhaps there isn't any secrets of substance left anymore, but the ceremonies are secret. I've heard it from Freemasons themselves, on these boards. To deny that the organisation isn't shrouded in it, even to this day, is wrong too.

Allow me to rephrase my prior statement. As long as Freemasonry is seen to be secretive, the organization will always be held in a little contempt. This goes for all things secretive. The government being a main one. The Greeks on college campuses are another example. The Vatican being another main one.

Amen nextguyinline. Speakeroftruth doesn't like to make waves I do. Masons have stated that the cerimonies are secret. And yes they are a society with secrets. Question:"What is Free Masonry and what do Free Masons believe?"

Answer: Free Masonry, Eastern Star, and other similar "secret" organizations appear to be harmless fellowship gatherings. Many of them even promote belief in God and good character. However, beneath this outward appearance, these secret societies hide anti-Biblical and anti-Christian beliefs and practices. Salvation from Sin:

The Bible’s View: Jesus became the sinner’s sacrifice before God when He shed His blood and died as the propitiation (payment) for the sins of the whole world (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:8, John 3:16).

Mason’s View: The very process of joining the Lodge requires Christians to deny everything Christ accomplished on their behalf. A person will be saved and go to heaven as a result of his good works and personal self-improvement. The Doctrine of God:

The Bible’s View: There is one God. The various names of God refer to the God of Israel and reveal certain attributes of God. To worship other Gods or to call upon other deities is idolatry (Exodus 20:3). Paul spoke of idolatry as a heinous sin (1 Corinthians 10:14) and John said that idolaters will perish in hell (Revelation 21:8).

Mason’s View: All members must believe in a deity. Different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.) acknowledge the same God, only call Him different names. Freemasonry invites people of all faiths, even if they use different names for the ‘Nameless One of a hundred names,’ they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all. The View of the Bible:

The Bible’s View: The supernatural and plenary inspiration of the Scriptures—that they are inerrant and that their teachings and authority are absolute, supreme, and final. The Bible is the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Mason’s View: The Bible is an important book. It is not the exclusive Word of God, nor is it God’s sole revelation of himself to humankind, but only one important book among many religious sourcebooks. It is a good guide for morality. The Bible is used primarily as a symbol of God’s will, which can also be captured in other sacred texts, like the Koran. The Doctrine of Jesus and the Trinity:

The Bible’s View: Jesus was God in human form (Matthew 1:18-24, John 1:1). Jesus is the second person of the trinity (Matthew 28:19, Mark 1:9-11). While on earth, He was fully human (Mark 4:38, Matthew 4:2) and fully divine (John 20:28, John 1:1-2, Acts 4:10-12). Christians should pray in Jesus’ name and proclaim Him before others, regardless of offense to non-Christians (John 14:13-14, 1 John 2:23, Acts 4:18-20).

Mason’s View: There is no trinity, therefore there is no doctrine of the deity of Jesus Christ. A mason cannot invoke the name of Jesus when praying, or mention His name in the Lodge. Suggesting that Jesus is the only way to God contradicts the principle of toleration. The name of Jesus has been omitted from many biblical verses that are used in Masonic writings. Jesus is on the same level as other religious leaders.

Human Nature and Sin:

The Bible’s View: All humans are born with a sinful nature, are totally depraved, and need a Savior from sin (Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, Ephesians 2:1). The Bible denies that humanity, since the Fall, has within itself the capacity for moral perfection (1 John 1:8-10, Romans 1:18-25).

Mason’s View: Through symbols and emblems, Masons teach that man is not sinful, just “rude and imperfect by nature”. Human beings are able to improve their character and behavior in various ways, including acts of charity, moral living, and voluntary performance of civic duty. Humanity possesses the capability of moving from imperfection toward total perfection. Moral and spiritual perfection lies within men and women When a Christian takes the oath of Freemasonry, he is swearing on the following doctrines that God has pronounced false and sinful:

1. That salvation can be gained by man’s good works.

2. To accept and promote that Jesus is just one of many equally revered prophets.

3. Masonry makes Christian men swear that they will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ.

4. Masonry makes Christians swear that they are approaching the Lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance, when the Bible says Christians are already in the light, children of the light, and are indwelt by the Light of the World—Jesus Christ.

5. By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.

6. Masonry makes Christians falsely swear that the G.A.O.T.U.[Great Architect of the Universe], whom Masonry believes is the true God of the universe, is present in all other religions.

7. Masonry makes Christians falsely swear to the teaching that true worship can be offered in the Lodge to God without the mediatorship of Jesus.

8. By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the doctrines of the Lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members, who look only to Masonry’s plan of salvation to get to heaven.

9. By taking the Masonic obligation, he is agreeing to allow the pollution of his mind, spirit, and body by those who serve false gods and believe false doctrines.



As you can see, Masonry denies and contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture and numerous issues. Masonry also requires people to engage in activities which the Bible condemns. As a result, a Christian should not be a member of any secret society or organization that has any connection with Free Masonry.

nextguy. was does the board keep calling you mitchellC. It says last post by mitchellc. but your the last post. Is there a phantom?

Don't know, just came here to look at coopers post, but alas, it's only me.

Your post shows though.

Originally posted by rich1974
nextguy. was does the board keep calling you mitchellC. It says last post by mitchellc. but your the last post. Is there a phantom?

I think Michelcopper is now banned or something...

He keeps posting, but his posts don't show unless you hit reply and scroll down the post history.

Nextguyinline I said amen to you. I totally agree with what you said about freemasonry. It's a society with secrets. And no speakeroftruth we are not talking about handshakes. We are talking about cerimonies kept in secret. That's were you learn the truth about masonry.

Question:"What is Free Masonry and what do Free Masons believe?"

Answer: Free Masonry, Eastern Star, and other similar "secret" organizations appear to be harmless fellowship gatherings. Many of them even promote belief in God and good character. However, beneath this outward appearance, these secret societies hide anti-Biblical and anti-Christian beliefs and practices.

Salvation from Sin:

The Bible's View: Jesus became the sinner's sacrifice before God when He shed His blood and died as the propitiation (payment) for the sins of the whole world (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:8, John 3:16).

Mason's View: The very process of joining the Lodge requires Christians to deny everything Christ accomplished on their behalf. A person will be saved and go to heaven as a result of his good works and personal self-improvement.

The Doctrine of God:

The Bible's View: There is one God. The various names of God refer to the God of Israel and reveal certain attributes of God. To worship other Gods or to call upon other deities is idolatry (Exodus 20:3). Paul spoke of idolatry as a heinous sin (1 Corinthians 10:14) and John said that idolaters will perish in hell (Revelation 21:8).

Mason's View: All members must believe in a deity. Different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.) acknowledge the same God, only call Him different names. Freemasonry invites people of all faiths, even if they use different names for the 'Nameless One of a hundred names,' they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all.

The View of the Bible:

The Bible's View: The supernatural and plenary inspiration of the Scriptures—that they are inerrant and that their teachings and authority are absolute, supreme, and final. The Bible is the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Mason's View: The Bible is an important book. It is not the exclusive Word of God, nor is it God's sole revelation of himself to humankind, but only one important book among many religious sourcebooks. It is a good guide for morality. The Bible is used primarily as a symbol of God's will, which can also be captured in other sacred texts, like the Koran

The Doctrine of Jesus and the Trinity:

The Bible's View: Jesus was God in human form (Matthew 1:18-24, John 1:1). Jesus is the second person of the trinity (Matthew 28:19, Mark 1:9-11). While on earth, He was fully human (Mark 4:38, Matthew 4:2) and fully divine (John 20:28, John 1:1-2, Acts 4:10-12). Christians should pray in Jesus' name and proclaim Him before others, regardless of offense to non-Christians (John 14:13-14, 1 John 2:23, Acts 4:18-20).

Mason's View: There is no trinity, therefore there is no doctrine of the deity of Jesus Christ. A mason cannot invoke the name of Jesus when praying, or mention His name in the Lodge. Suggesting that Jesus is the only way to God contradicts the principle of toleration. The name of Jesus has been omitted from many biblical verses that are used in Masonic writings. Jesus is on the same level as other religious leaders.

Human Nature and Sin:

The Bible's View: All humans are born with a sinful nature, are totally depraved, and need a Savior from sin (Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, Ephesians 2:1). The Bible denies that humanity, since the Fall, has within itself the capacity for moral perfection (1 John 1:8-10, Romans 1:18-25).

Mason's View: Through symbols and emblems, Masons teach that man is not sinful, just "rude and imperfect by nature". Human beings are able to improve their character and behavior in various ways, including acts of charity, moral living, and voluntary performance of civic duty. Humanity possesses the capability of moving from imperfection toward total perfection. Moral and spiritual perfection lies within men and women

When a Christian takes the oath of Freemasonry, he is swearing on the following doctrines that God has pronounced false and sinful:

1. That salvation can be gained by man's good works.

2. To accept and promote that Jesus is just one of many equally revered prophets.

3. Masonry makes Christian men swear that they will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ.

4. Masonry makes Christians swear that they are approaching the Lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance, when the Bible says Christians are already in the light, children of the light, and are indwelt by the Light of the World—Jesus Christ.

5. By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.

6. Masonry makes Christians falsely swear that the G.A.O.T.U.[Great Architect of the Universe], whom Masonry believes is the true God of the universe, is present in all other religions.

7. Masonry makes Christians falsely swear to the teaching that true worship can be offered in the Lodge to God without the mediatorship of Jesus.

8. By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the doctrines of the Lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members, who look only to Masonry's plan of salvation to get to heaven.

9. By taking the Masonic obligation, he is agreeing to allow the pollution of his mind, spirit, and body by those who serve false gods and believe false doctrines.

Masory has secrets theirs no doubt about. And no these are not secrets that apply to my checking account and soc. number. These people have infected everything from our churchs to our gov. and need to be removed.

Thanks, can't see anything. Why would you want to type stuff no one can see.
lol

Originally posted by rich1974
how I can join

This guy tells of how he joined Freemasonry, might be some useful advice for you getting started. skip the first 2 mins of the clip (intro).
video.google.com...

This guy gets a tour of a masonic lodge
video.google.com...

I have come to the conclusion that masonry is indeed a occult organization. It hides behind charity and deception. Yes they do help cripples, the blind, and deaf. But these same people they claim to help such as a blind person can't be a member. Why? Because they can't read the symbols, and the deaf because they can't here the secret words. And if a new person wants to become a member but is not up to their liking they, "blackball" them with no reason given. And they call christians judgemental. Masonry is a joke, a lie, and wrong. Below is a list I made myself about why freemasonry is wrong. Salvation from Sin:

The Bible's View: Jesus became the sinner's sacrifice before God when He shed His blood and died as the propitiation (payment) for the sins of the whole world (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:8, John 3:16).

Mason's View: The very process of joining the Lodge requires Christians to deny everything Christ accomplished on their behalf. A person will be saved and go to heaven as a result of his good works and personal self-improvement.

The Doctrine of God:

The Bible's View: There is one God. The various names of God refer to the God of Israel and reveal certain attributes of God. To worship other Gods or to call upon other deities is idolatry (Exodus 20:3). Paul spoke of idolatry as a heinous sin (1 Corinthians 10:14) and John said that idolaters will perish in hell (Revelation 21:8).

Mason's View: All members must believe in a deity. Different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.) acknowledge the same God, only call Him different names. Freemasonry invites people of all faiths, even if they use different names for the 'Nameless One of a hundred names,' they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all.

The View of the Bible:

The Bible's View: The supernatural and plenary inspiration of the Scriptures—that they are inerrant and that their teachings and authority are absolute, supreme, and final. The Bible is the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Mason's View: The Bible is an important book. It is not the exclusive Word of God, nor is it God's sole revelation of himself to humankind, but only one important book among many religious sourcebooks. It is a good guide for morality. The Bible is used primarily as a symbol of God's will, which can also be captured in other sacred texts, like the Koran

The Doctrine of Jesus and the Trinity:

The Bible's View: Jesus was God in human form (Matthew 1:18-24, John 1:1). Jesus is the second person of the trinity (Matthew 28:19, Mark 1:9-11). While on earth, He was fully human (Mark 4:38, Matthew 4:2) and fully divine (John 20:28, John 1:1-2, Acts 4:10-12). Christians should pray in Jesus' name and proclaim Him before others, regardless of offense to non-Christians (John 14:13-14, 1 John 2:23, Acts 4:18-20).

Mason's View: There is no trinity, therefore there is no doctrine of the deity of Jesus Christ. A mason cannot invoke the name of Jesus when praying, or mention His name in the Lodge. Suggesting that Jesus is the only way to God contradicts the principle of toleration. The name of Jesus has been omitted from many biblical verses that are used in Masonic writings. Jesus is on the same level as other religious leaders.

Human Nature and Sin:

The Bible's View: All humans are born with a sinful nature, are totally depraved, and need a Savior from sin (Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, Ephesians 2:1). The Bible denies that humanity, since the Fall, has within itself the capacity for moral perfection (1 John 1:8-10, Romans 1:18-25).

Mason's View: Through symbols and emblems, Masons teach that man is not sinful, just "rude and imperfect by nature". Human beings are able to improve their character and behavior in various ways, including acts of charity, moral living, and voluntary performance of civic duty. Humanity possesses the capability of moving from imperfection toward total perfection. Moral and spiritual perfection lies within men and women

When a Christian takes the oath of Freemasonry, he is swearing on the following doctrines that God has pronounced false and sinful:

1. That salvation can be gained by man's good works.

2. To accept and promote that Jesus is just one of many equally revered prophets.

3. Masonry makes Christian men swear that they will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ.

4. Masonry makes Christians swear that they are approaching the Lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance, when the Bible says Christians are already in the light, children of the light, and are indwelt by the Light of the World—Jesus Christ.

5. By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.

6. Masonry makes Christians falsely swear that the G.A.O.T.U.[Great Architect of the Universe], whom Masonry believes is the true God of the universe, is present in all other religions.

7. Masonry makes Christians falsely swear to the teaching that true worship can be offered in the Lodge to God without the mediatorship of Jesus.

8. By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the doctrines of the Lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members, who look only to Masonry's plan of salvation to get to heaven.

9. By taking the Masonic obligation, he is agreeing to allow the pollution of his mind, spirit, and body by those who serve false gods and believe false doctrines.



As you can see, Masonry denies and contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture and numerous issues. Masonry also requires people to engage in activities which the Bible condemns. As a result, a Christian should not be a member of any secret society or organization that has any connection with Free Masonry.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol



Mason's View: The very process of joining the Lodge requires Christians to deny everything Christ accomplished on their behalf. A person will be saved and go to heaven as a result of his good works and personal self-improvement.

No such requirement was made of me. The only requirement that pertains to religion was that I must believa in God.

The Doctrine of God:

The Bible's View: There is one God. The various names of God refer to the God of Israel and reveal certain attributes of God. To worship other Gods or to call upon other deities is idolatry (Exodus 20:3). Paul spoke of idolatry as a heinous sin (1 Corinthians 10:14) and John said that idolaters will perish in hell (Revelation 21:8).

Mason's View: All members must believe in a deity. Different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.) acknowledge the same God, only call Him different names. Freemasonry invites people of all faiths, even if they use different names for the 'Nameless One of a hundred names,' they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all.

Those two views seem pretty similar to me

The View of the Bible:

The Bible's View: The supernatural and plenary inspiration of the Scriptures—that they are inerrant and that their teachings and authority are absolute, supreme, and final. The Bible is the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Mason's View: The Bible is an important book. It is not the exclusive Word of God, nor is it God's sole revelation of himself to humankind, but only one important book among many religious sourcebooks. It is a good guide for morality. The Bible is used primarily as a symbol of God's will, which can also be captured in other sacred texts, like the Koran

Ya, I agree with this one since I don't think the bible has remained perfectly intact in the hands of humans. That is my personal opinion, it is not so taught in masonry.

The Doctrine of Jesus and the Trinity:

The Bible's View: Jesus was God in human form (Matthew 1:18-24, John 1:1). Jesus is the second person of the trinity (Matthew 28:19, Mark 1:9-11). While on earth, He was fully human (Mark 4:38, Matthew 4:2) and fully divine (John 20:28, John 1:1-2, Acts 4:10-12). Christians should pray in Jesus' name and proclaim Him before others, regardless of offense to non-Christians (John 14:13-14, 1 John 2:23, Acts 4:18-20).

Mason's View: There is no trinity, therefore there is no doctrine of the deity of Jesus Christ. A mason cannot invoke the name of Jesus when praying, or mention His name in the Lodge. Suggesting that Jesus is the only way to God contradicts the principle of toleration. The name of Jesus has been omitted from many biblical verses that are used in Masonic writings. Jesus is on the same level as other religious leaders.

Masonry is not Christianity. If you take golf lessons they will not invoke Jesus either. It is not the purpose of masonry to promote one religious leader over another.

Human Nature and Sin:

The Bible's View: All humans are born with a sinful nature, are totally depraved, and need a Savior from sin (Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, Ephesians 2:1). The Bible denies that humanity, since the Fall, has within itself the capacity for moral perfection (1 John 1:8-10, Romans 1:18-25).

Mason's View: Through symbols and emblems, Masons teach that man is not sinful,

Never been taught any such thing.

just "rude and imperfect by nature". Human beings are able to improve their character and behavior in various ways, including acts of charity, moral living, and voluntary performance of civic duty. Humanity possesses the capability of moving from imperfection toward total perfection. Moral and spiritual perfection lies within men and women

Makes sense to me.