Gimme a reason to believe...

OK, I guess some of you guys will find this seriously annoying
and probobly offensive and if you I apologize here in advance.

Now back to the topic.

I cannot believe that the military, secret government or
whatever it is that is supposed to be running area 51
by groom lake when so many people believe that there
is a base up there. If the bases whereabouts was
ever to be discovered the military would most likely
move the base to a different location.

But since there is a lot of ¨evidence¨ of something going
on near or at groom lake it could of course be that there
once was a facility that might have had atleast something
to do with all the activity reported up there.

I myself believe that the military did have a secret military
base at groom lake but shut down the experiments and such
going on up there when its location became known.
I also believe that the military airbase at groom lake is most
likely there today as a decoy to make people believe that
there is still something up there when there isnt.

But now Ive had my saying and Id like to know your thoughts
on this subject, lets see if you can convince me that there
really is something going on at groom lake...

the base is supposed to be run by the navy, and you are wrong about moving it. they just grap more land around it, so they keep people at a distance. also if the base is massive undergound and links to other underground bases, why do they need to move it.

your entitled your opinion, but most on here will disagree with you as yu know already.

What I was trying to say earlier was, they
would probobly move the base since they cannot risk
getting exposed. If people know where the base is
it is only a matter of time 'till someone manages to
sneak inside and possible retrieve som classified
information.

If they are still operating at groom lake, they are
taking a massive risk for doing so.

OK for starters PLEASE ignore andy1033, I dont know whther he is winding you up or just doesnt know anything about area 51 but it is definately not run by navy. He may be thinking of China Lake which have a "wet site" for testing the RCS of floating objects in a secure pond.

A quick background on Area 51; it was initially built in 1955 by the Air Force for Lockheed Martin to test its groundbreaking U-2 spyplane. Since then it has expanded and been used in the development of the A-12, SR-71, F-117A, B-2, F-22, several technology demonstrators and lots and lots of still classified projects.

Dromedar, your points are all valid and are brought up quite often.

The obvious answer is that even now that Area 51 is well known and its location can be found by a quick internet search it is still incredibly secure. The closest you can get to the base is about 25 miles and in the Nevada heat it is essentialy impossible to tell anything about the tests going on at the base. It is also very difficult to get inside the border, so hard in fact that no one has ever done it (well some claim to have done it but mysteriously forgot their cameras etc.). The base has 24 hour land and air patrols of the border. Most tests are also conducted on moon-less nights making the tests diffcult to observe and monitor.

The base has also expanded in recent years. A new runway was constructed about a decade ago to replace the original deteriorating one and more recently new hangars and mysterious towers have been constructed. Flights and buses carrying workers to the site are also more often than ever before.

I hope this has at least helped you to believe a little!

Ok, you made a few good points there gfad but there
are more things to be considered.

The base might be very secure but no matter how secure
it might be someone will sooner or later manage to sneak in
somehow and most likely bring back some very incriminating
evidence (that is if the base has something to do with aliens
or maybe illegal research).

And why is it so impossible to sneak into the base?
If you managed to learn the guard routines and such
it should be quite easy. There might be movement
detectors and such but they are quite easily avoided.
So what is really stopping people from getting in?

Stupidity?

Originally posted by The Dromedar
Ok, you made a few good points there gfad but there
are more things to be considered.

The base might be very secure but no matter how secure
it might be someone will sooner or later manage to sneak in
somehow and most likely bring back some very incriminating
evidence (that is if the base has something to do with aliens
or maybe illegal research).

And why is it so impossible to sneak into the base?
If you managed to learn the guard routines and such
it should be quite easy. There might be movement
detectors and such but they are quite easily avoided.
So what is really stopping people from getting in?

Stupidity?

It's nearly impossible for a number of reasons.

Night vision, thermal vision, ground sensors, remote cameras, airplanes, helicopters, vehicle patrols, fences, little cover (little vegitation, hot & cold weather, dusty, remote location, and technology we probably don't know about. Oh yeah, and radiation is a great one!

I think it's possible to get within 10 miles of the base. Maybe even closer a few more miles. I always wonder if they patrol groom mine. I also bet they'd never expect an approach from the southwest, but that would be the most difficult journey considering how much food and water you'd need and where on earth you'd start your approach since there really isn't anywhere for you to abandon your vehicle within 50 miles.

I still like an approach from the north since it's close to Rachel and you'd get a great vantage point since many hangers (the important ones) face north-south. Bald mountain provides foliage and little access to patrolling vehicles and I'd be surprised if they put cameras and sensors around there.

In my opinion, the most difficult part of infiltrating Area 51 is the psychological effect it would have on you. I can see myself not being able to sleep in the middle of the night, scared to death knowing that camo dudes have been stalking me all day and are moments away from raiding my camp, arresting me, and questioning me for a week straight, and then the government harrases me for the rest of my life, and then one day I just disappear into thin air.

And even if you're successful and infiltrate the border the odds of capturing test flights or secret aircraft in hangers with open doors or on the tarmac naked are at least 1,000,000 to 1. Lets say you manage to do all of that. Then you have to get yourself out of there all in one piece. After all of that is said and done you get to post your videos and pictures anonymously on ats.com and nobody will ever know you were the first person to infiltrate Area 51.

You would most likely be very bored and underwhelmed with what goes on there.

It is a research and testing facility for the military. Advanced aircraft (specifically revolutionary airframe designs) are admittedly sexy and interesting, but much of the work is on avionics and radars, new engine designs, flight control systems, and other less flashy projects. Chances are excellent you would look right at a new onboard electronic gizmo and not even recognize what it was, let alone that it was 'new and improved'.

Please, let's not let this thread degenerate into the 'alien UFO technology from Roswell' silliness.

Originally posted by The Dromedar
The base might be very secure but no matter how secure
it might be someone will sooner or later manage to sneak in
somehow and most likely bring back some very incriminating
evidence (that is if the base has something to do with aliens
or maybe illegal research).

And why is it so impossible to sneak into the base?
If you managed to learn the guard routines and such
it should be quite easy. There might be movement
detectors and such but they are quite easily avoided.
So what is really stopping people from getting in?

Stupidity?

I disagree hat someone will eventually sneak in. The guards arern't on routines they wait on hilltops and watch, just watch for 24 hours, 7 days a week.

And I don't know how you know that the sensors are easily avoided! There are definately motion detectors located not just within the base boreder but on public land as well. That way they dont just get a message when you cross the border, they know you are coming as well. Its also rumoured that there are even more advanced sensors.

I can see why you would believe that the base is just a decoy but if the AF isn't testing its new gadgets at Groom Lake then where are they doing it? The nevada desert is one of the most remote places in america and the NTS is one of the largest (3,500 km2) and most inaccesible places on earth.

Well:
maps.google.com...,-115.81152&spn=0.103584,0.21595&t=k&om=1

www.dreamlandresort.com...

737-200's with a callsign of JANET takeoff VFR from Las Vegas. They fly into the Tonopah test range, and into Area 51.

Two, it's impossible to sneak into area 51. It is constantly sorounded by loads of security equipment and guards. In a Desert, how are you meant to sneak into a base, sorounded by patrolling guards, and video cameras?

IF secret planes are at Area 51, will be find out? Probably not. You cannot get near the base. The only way to see inside is climbing a mountain, which is far away, and nearly impossible to make any REAL detail.

Originally posted by gfad
A quick background on Area 51; it was initially built in 1955 by the Air Force for Lockheed Martin to test its groundbreaking U-2 spyplane. Since then it has expanded and been used in the development of the A-12, SR-71, F-117A, B-2, F-22, several technology demonstrators and lots and lots of still classified projects.

gfad,

I have to point out some mistake in your post:

It was built in 1955 by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) not the Air Force. The U-2 was origionally created for the CIA, not the Air Force.

Also, in our research Noone has ever found evidence that the F-22 is (or was) ever flown from Groom Lake. The F-22 was flown form Muroc Lake, which is Edwards Air Force Base (Right Idea, Wrong Lake)! Groom Lake is strictly for Black Projects


Other than these 2 factual errors, it was a very good post.

Tim

They really need to send Snake from MGS in there, he could sneak in!

If he was real lol

Originally posted by Ghost01
It was built in 1955 by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) not the Air Force. The U-2 was origionally created for the CIA, not the Air Force.

Well spotted. I was wrong on that point.

Originally posted by Ghost01
Also, in our research Noone has ever found evidence that the F-22 is (or was) ever flown from Groom Lake. The F-22 was flown form Muroc Lake, which is Edwards Air Force Base (Right Idea, Wrong Lake)! Groom Lake is strictly for Black Projects

Im afraid it is you who is totally wrong here. Just because none of your research turned this up doesn't make it untrue, it is confirmed by at least two very reliable and knowledgeable sources. I have also done my research and I'm sure you know I'm a regular poster in this forum so I know exactly what Groom Lake is for.

At Area 51 and in the land surrounding it (ie Emmigrant Valley) there is a large array of real and simulated foreign radar sites (mostly russian). These started appearing in the 70s for Project HAVE GLIB and you can clearly see some of them on Google Earth. This is officially known as DYCOMS (Dynamic Coherent Measurement System) and known as Project 100 within the base. Every operational US plane flies against this to have its Radar Cross Section (RCS) assessed by actual systems used by the enemy.

As I've already stated in another thread (which you have clearly chosen to ignore) in 2001 the fourth production Raptor, F-22A 91-4004, was flown against this system to assess its low radar sugnature. I know that the main testing and evaluation program is being carried out in the public eye at Edwards AFB, but the RCS of the Raptor is probably its biggest secret and as such it was tested at the most secret base in the world which also fields a unique radar evaluation system.

Originally posted by The Dromedar
I cannot believe that the military, secret government or
whatever it is that is supposed to be running area 51
by groom lake when so many people believe that there
is a base up there.

Interesting...

Originally posted by The Dromedar
I myself believe that the military did have a secret military
base at groom lake but shut down the experiments and such
going on up there when its location became known.

I think you're mentally retarded.