Religion = control

first of all let me say i believe in God!

and i'm not a physician or a professor i'm just an ordinary intellected person so don't flame me for sharing my thoughts, i don't want to believe into something i say or anything like that, i just share my thought

i made a topic a while ago about, not knowing in what to believe if you remember

i was thinking a while ago

we humans are sheep! we can't survive without a leader, there will be a chaos, BUT! the leader must be better than we are! or promise something good, of course he may never keep it, it all depends how good can you "guide and control" and we humans also live with a hope! (even if you know someone will say: lie to you, you still have hope somewhere in the deep of your mind that "i hope he will tell truth" although you know he will lie but if he lies you can prove that at least you'll know the truth) the leader must promise and give us hope, what is better to choose than something no one can prove or find out of

everything started with making God out of something physical - while people were dumb and at the start of the evolution they would fall in that, but once they clever and the scientist began proving some things, if became hard to make people believe in something physical, so the "government" of that time decided invent something better so people would believe and follow them!

at any stage of evolution of human, as much as we got clever "God became more advanced too"

if we would go back through time when people believed in rocks, we would laugh at it!(maybe and probably we wouldn't) but we know for sure that a stone or a fire is not a God! but you ask that "them" they'd probably call you a satan and kill you in the name of God!

as much as we evolve we will always have a better and more believable story about God, and that's what govermant exactly wants!

why do you think that chuch is so against physics or math or some other science?

and why does government hide all the latest scientific discoveries?, why we live 50 years back from government? why does government kill and torture ordinary people? isn't it a sin? but they know something we don't, if you kill in the name of goverment and national security, it is not sin and you are allowed! and you kind of not feel guilt! why?

probaby everything i said is a big Bull! but i had to share my thoughts, and it's very late here, actually it's already morning! so i got to go to sleep!

at any stage of evolution of human, as much as we got clever "God became more advanced too"
if we would go back through time when people believed in rocks, we would laugh at it!(maybe and probably we wouldn't) but we know for sure that a stone or a fire is not a God! but you ask that "them" they'd probably call you a satan and kill you in the name of God!

Thiers gonna be a time 2000 years from now, when someone in your same shoes is going to be stating this aswell.


"Could you believe that we humans use to believe in a GOD and go to temples to pray to him"
"Could you believe that we killed eachother off in his very name"

mb-soft.com...

The physcology of God evolves.

Deep

Originally posted by CyberGhost

we humans are sheep! we can't survive without a leader, there will be a chaos, BUT! the leader must be better than we are! or promise something good, of course he may never keep it, it all depends how good can you "guide and control" and we humans also live with a hope!

I find it amusing that Christians refer to themselves as sheep or part of Jesus' flock. It's like an admission of being a mindless drone.

As for needing a leader who is somehow better than ourselves or can offer something better than what we have--I agree, which is why I'll not be voting for George W. in the coming election.

you must be muslim worshipthemoon?

How does his statement make him muslim?

Deep

I find it amusing that Christians refer to themselves as sheep or part of Jesus' flock

i'd say

i find it amusing that we Christians refer to outselves.......

Religion is a form of control. Surely it's obvious to many that the story of God and the Bible are simply methods to keep people in line, not thinking to much. Religion causes more war than it's worth though so I really don't think it's really worth it. I think people of the future will look back at our primitive beliefs in a higher being. They will certainly laugh at all the fighting related to these beliefs.

i find it amusing that we Christians refer to outselves.......

yes...................

CyberGhost?

Not all religions potray signs of Control.
Men use Religion to Control men.
Deep

Originally posted by worshipthemoon

Originally posted by CyberGhost

we humans are sheep! we can't survive without a leader, there will be a chaos, BUT! the leader must be better than we are! or promise something good, of course he may never keep it, it all depends how good can you "guide and control" and we humans also live with a hope!

I find it amusing that Christians refer to themselves as sheep or part of Jesus' flock. It's like an admission of being a mindless drone.

As for needing a leader who is somehow better than ourselves or can offer something better than what we have--I agree, which is why I'll not be voting for George W. in the coming election.

Well!
WOR SHIP THE MOON
What what that you were saying about Christianity being QUOTE//a mindless drone.

Why?
Because Christians worship and follow the words of Christ?
Well, I would rather be a follower having ''Free will'' ,to choose.....
then heed to the Devil and his demons!
Created by lies and deception!


Ok...let me say firstly, I'm sorry about the WOR SHIP THE MOON bit.......
can I ask?
Why do you call yourself .....worshipthemoon?
And if it's non of my buisness, then that's ok!
I can live with that!
helen....

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
How does his statement make him muslim?

Deep

That's easy ZeroDeep, didn't you get the new memo on "How to classify others with little or no proof!"

Under the section of "Anyone who doensn't vote for GWBush" is:
Automatically associate all people who do not intend to vote for GW Bush for 2004 as some or all of the following-Muslim Extremist, Terrorist or Aid to Terrorism, Anti-American, Anti-Christian, Hater of Freedom, Dangerous Radical Leftist, Communist Spy, Nazi Propagandist, Sympathetic Weakling, Satanist, Morally Unsound, or just plain Unworthy of Life.
The memo was sent out by the Bush administration though, which has some questioning just how accurate the studies are. However those who make such questions aloud either publicly or privately have been quickly tried as Terrorists and put to death!

This of course was a joke for those who didn't understand it.....you know who you are.....

According to how Christians are supposed to be, they are supposed to be sheep and are supposed to be meek (meaning to be incredibly submissive and gentle). It does seem like there are a lot of meek people on this planet, though I don't see too much gentleness.

Originally posted by CyberGhost
you must be muslim worshipthemoon?

Nope. Organized religion seems like a bunch of bunk. I'm not a part of any formal religious sect.

Some teachings of most world religions have merit, but I don't believe that any certain religion is "the right one". I have morals that are included by Christianity, for example I don't steal, try not to lie, etc. I've met so many people who claim to be Christian that can't even follow the Ten Commandments that it's not even funny. I don't mean to offend any Christians. I just think that as long as someone leads a decent life, it doesn't matter if you believe in any certain religion. Just like saying you're Christian or going to church doesn't mean you're a good person.

Under the section of "Anyone who doensn't vote for GWBush" is:
Automatically associate all people who do not intend to vote for GW Bush for 2004 as some or all of the following-Muslim Extremist, Terrorist or Aid to Terrorism, Anti-American, Anti-Christian, Hater of Freedom, Dangerous Radical Leftist, Communist Spy, Nazi Propagandist, Sympathetic Weakling, Satanist, Morally Unsound, or just plain Unworthy of Life.

LMAO.

Religion does not control your life....YOU DO.

The church is the ......given by Christ as a gift to the Church, to empower the Church for service to God (Acts 1:8),
to place God's love in our hearts (Romans 5:5),
and to impart spiritual gifts (I Corinthians 12:7-13)
and virtues (Galatians 5:22, 23) for Christian life and witness.

"So the apostles and elders came together [in council] to consider the matter" (Acts 15:6).
This council, held in Jerusalem, set the pattern for the subsequent calling of councils to settle problems.
There have been hundreds of such councils -- local and regional -- over the centuries of the history of the Church, and seven councils specifically designated "Eucumenical", that is, considered to apply to the whole Church.

People think and believe that there need not be a Church....there was always a Church....in the Old testament and the New Testament....who Jesus Christ is the Head...cornerstone...

The Apostle Peter writes to Christians:
"We are a chosen generation,
a royal priesthood" (I Peter 2:9).
The Apostle John says that Christ "made us kings and priests unto God and his Father" (Revelation 1:6)

We as humans have that choice .....to choose who controlls us!

Is it God ....
Or is it Satan and his many lies that keep on destroying the souls of many people........and do more so today!

"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise" (Ps. 51:19).

"Great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh" (I Tim. 3 16)

The Lord says that Satan is a murderer from the beginning, a liar and the father of lies (John 8,44).

Christianity as antiquity.-- When we hear the ancient bells growling on a Sunday morning we ask ourselves: Is it really possible! This, for a jew, crucified two thousand years ago, who said he was God's son? The proof of such a claim is lacking. Certainly the Christian religion is an antiquity projected into our times from remote prehistory; and the fact that the claim is believed - whereas one is otherwise so strict in examining pretensions - is perhaps the most ancient piece of this heritage. A god who begets children with a mortal woman; a sage who bids men work no more, have no more courts, but look for the signs of the impending end of the world; a justice that accepts the innocent as a vicarious sacrifice; someone who orders his disciples to drink his blood; prayers for miraculous interventions; sins perpetrated against a god, atoned for by a god; fear of a beyond to which death is the portal; the form of the cross as a symbol in a time that no longer knows the function and ignominy of the cross -- how ghoulishly all this touches us, as if from the tomb of a primeval past! Can one believe that such things are still believed?

from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human

www.pitt.edu...

Nietzche, the person on whom a lot of my personal morality is derived from (albehit altered, as I disagreed with some of his...ah.....less politically correct personal values) said that the church is an old, outdated outmoded and ridiculous piece of work. And in my eyes, it is. Once upon a time, the church lorded over all. Now, its power has grown weak with the wane of religion. Men have decided to take their fates into their own hands. While much of modern western morality is based upon Christian teaching, this is just another facet of control. We are religiously indoctrinated at an early age, taught to worship a dead man, taught to revere a dead god, taught to bear bizzare implements as symbols of the divine.

Sheep. Sheep indeed.

Religion turns people into sheep. Yes, sheep are humble. Yes, sheep are meek. Is this neccesarily a good thing? Why can't we choose to lead our own lives, out form under God's shadow. Not everything is good or bad, black or white. Religions seem to have trouble with the concept that everything is a shade of grey. interpretations of good and bad are a personal decision. I've made my own.

Here is where the sheep are seperated from the wolves- morality. Master and slave. An explination for those who aren't into philosophy, quickly:

The Master and Slave moralities were two different ethical systems which Nietzsche compares and contrasts in Beyond Good and Evil. Nietzsche calls for a "transvaluation of values," a reexamination of morality. The master morality is associated with nobility and classical values. The master simply defines himself and his values as "good," and any other values as "bad." What do the masters value? In short, harshness and pain. Nietzsche coined the phrase "that which does not kill me makes me stronger," and this is what the masters believe. Adversity, challenge, pain--all of these make a person stronger. Among the masters, one's enemy is also a master, and thus worthy of respect. By contrast, the slave moralities (which include Christianity) define good as "those who help us," and evil as "those who harm us." The slaves are those who cannot handle harshness, and react against it. The slaves thus value mutual aid and egalitarianism, and define the masters as evil. Nietzsche wished to get beyond the slave morality--to go beyond good and evil.

While I am perfectly aware of how this may be twisted, I choose to say that yes, I am vague Nietzchian. I believe in a person's right to live as they will, do what they will, according to their own morals. Self-righteous zealotry gets no one anywhere. Thus has the churched weakened and waned in power across the years. Sheep tired fo sending their children to be slaughtered.

I think that's enough ranting for now. I realize that I'll be flamed to hell, but what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

DE

Originally posted by CyberGhost
I find it amusing that Christians refer to themselves as sheep or part of Jesus' flock

i'd say

i find it amusing that we Christians refer to outselves.......

there are other religions besides christian and muslim. don't make assumptions about one's beliefs.

Originally posted by effigyrelease

Originally posted by CyberGhost
I find it amusing that Christians refer to themselves as sheep or part of Jesus' flock

i'd say

i find it amusing that we Christians refer to outselves.......

there are other religions besides christian and muslim. don't make assumptions about one's beliefs.

Monotheistic relgions have a lot in common. But I agree. Don't jump the gun and assume you know a person's beliefs. It's just sloppy.

DE

Well that idea is not something new. The earliest religions were founded by "wise" priests who were fluent in scientific fields such as astronomy, agriculture, and later on mathematics (Pythagora for example was considered divine by many of his followers). They saw that humans were essentialy beastial and unruly without some kind of moral code, so they invented religion. For example Set, the christian "satan" represents the absence of sunlight, or darkness, and fear of darkness is one of mankind's primal fears.

At some point in humanity's evolution, we will rid ourselves of religion and become mature enough to handle life without fearing invisible entities hiding under the bed and actually build a civilization based on reason rather than fear/love mechanisms - not anytime soon though.

[Edited on 19-12-2003 by Helioform]

THE AFRICAN SAFARI PAPERS
Robert Sedlack
(Anchor Canada - Random House)

Here�s an excerpt (page 195-196):

"I have never said a dirty word about Jesus. Ever. But I can�t stand the people who follow him. I can�t stand people who follow anything but their favorite team. We are a society of cowards. How many Christians would go into the desert and survive for forty days and forty nights � with only water from the dew of leaves in the morning to drink, with only bugs and the occasional root of some bitter plant to eat, with no shelter from the scorching sun of the day or the chilling cold of the night, with no toilet paper? How many would do this? Maybe nine. Nine of the millions who call themselves Christians.
It takes hard work to become a captain of eternity. Jesus did really well on his test. On his own! With no cheating. But now there are millions of people looking over his shoulder, stealing answers. Why? Because they don�t want to find them on their own. It�s not like stealing a peek during a math test either � answers that work for one person don�t work for anyone else. You can�t steal life answers and pretend they�re your own. It�s like wearing someone else�s underwear.

The captains of eternity knew the secret. You have to find your own way. No matter how scary it gets, or lonely, or baffling or insane, you have to cut your own path. There is no shortcut to salvation. As soon as you butt in line with a bunch of other lazy and ignorant people and start following someone, it�s over.

These lines of followers stretch as far as the eye can see and everyone in line is pretty goddamn cocky about it. The Jews tell us they�re chosen, Buddhists are enlightened, Christians are saved, Hindus are reincarnated and Muslims devoted. And the rest of us? Walking our solitary walk? We don�t have a #ing chance. Do we? Balderdash. There are as many roads to paradise as there are people on the planet. Hallelujah. We�re all captains of eternity, baby. F**k the long lines. Keep walking. Stay strong.�


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Yes, yes, religion is about control in many of religion's forms. We know this. We've covered this. I would think that *somebody* would come up with something original and worthwhile... c'mon people...