Members: Proposed ATSNN.com Changes

Ch-Ch-Cha-Changes

(Turn and face the strain)

There are a number of new changes in store for several aspects of ATS, BTS, and AP... most of which will not effect much of how our regular members use the site, but will greatly enhance the experience of new users.

One of the big changes being tossed around needs to happen first, and I though it a good idea to bring it to your attention for discussion before I go ahead and do it anyway

Phasing out ATSNN.com

An excellent idea during our growing formative years, I think this separate domain for "news" is no longer needed... and it gets minimal traffic at best.

The proposed changes evolves the "news forum" concept into more of a pure method for sharing links to breaking news and discussing it.

Under the new plan, the news forum submissions will still require a special form, but would now be limited to headline, short snippet, and links... no commentary.

- All submissions are immediately available (no voting)

- Members can comment on news submissions immediately

- The forum listing would also display the link to the source article

- Members still get higher points for submitting news (but not as high as previously), and higher points for replies to their news submissions

- Staff may move or trash anything not "current" as the new guidelines would require submissions to be from stories no older than 48 hours.



This first step is needed before we initiate the cunning use of Flags throughout ATS.

This seems like these changes would make it a bit easier for members to post new news articles; whereas before many members may have felt intimidated by the whole structured process of submitting ATSNN articles.

Looks like it will be a step in the right direction.





Also, is this part of the results of the "Dark Matter rethunking" process ?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
One of the big changes being tossed around needs to happen first, and I though it a good idea to bring it to your attention for discussion before I go ahead and do it anyway

How can we argue with honesty like that?

I agree that ATSNN can be intimidating. I've only authored ten or so articles with the Forum and they were probably in the last two or three months. But when you do get the feel for it, it quickly grows on you.

As for phasing it out, it will be interesting to see what is implemented.

Is it going to be a forum as any other? Avatars, Member Titles, etc., going to be visible in this new "News" Forum? Are all of the existing threads in the ATSNN Forum going to be transfered over to the new forum? When can we expect the transition to take place?

A few months ago you mentioned that members should expect a lot of changes in the future. You weren't kidding. Reading the stats for ATS in January, it seems that what you guys are doing is working quite alright.

Looking forward to what you guys have in store for the future.



Edit:

As for the "No Commentary" component of this new Forum, is this breaking any copyright laws? I thought I had read posts in the past about this, and due to the fact that we were offering our opinions on the subject, it was acceptable. Maybe reading into something that is non-existent. But if I am attempting to author a new thread in this new forum, would I make the initial post and comment on it in another?

[edit on 17-2-2007 by chissler]

Is the current events forum going to remain? It seems after this change there will be little difference between the two forums.

Strange Bedfellows

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Is the current events forum going to remain? It seems after this change there will be little difference between the two forums.

Since OCE is effectively a catch-all political forum already, I was thinking we could rename it to "AbovePolitics.com".

eh I personally am rather disappointed. ATSNN is one of the few things I check in ATS anymore to be honest. I like discussing news with intelligent people who are objective. There are pleanty of objective people on ATS, which is why I come here to read the news. I personally liked the structure ATSNN had and will be sad to see it go

(given the fact about 90% of my posts are ATSNN at least.)

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Phasing out ATSNN.com

An excellent idea during our growing formative years, I think this separate domain for "news" is no longer needed... and it gets minimal traffic at best.

The proposed changes evolves the "news forum" concept into more of a pure method for sharing links to breaking news and discussing it.

Under the new plan, the news forum submissions will still require a special form, but would now be limited to headline, short snippet, and links... no commentary.

IMO allowing members to post a topic without any commentary sends the wrong message out to newer members of the forum and the quality of the forum would be effected. People that add a paragraph or more commentary often get me interested enough to post on a topic on ATSNN.

On a positive note I like the idea of members being able to post on a topic straight away.


[edit on 17-2-2007 by xpert11]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
eh I personally am rather disappointed. ATSNN is one of the few things I check in ATS anymore to be honest. I like discussing news with intelligent people who are objective. There are pleanty of objective people on ATS, which is why I come here to read the news. I personally liked the structure ATSNN had and will be sad to see it go

I agree with all of the above. I will also be very sorry to see the back of ATSNN, I'd say that currently it is the "place" on ATS where I spend the most time, if not commenting, then reading, and learning.

I also think that allowing news to be posted without commentary, spin, or good old fashioned opinion, is a step backwards.

Of course, I haven't seen what you've got up your sleeve to soften the blow, but this news on its own, IMO is quite sad.

Ok, yeah, whatever. It'll be great, I"m sure.

I'm more interested in this little gem...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
This first step is needed before we initiate the cunning use of Flags throughout ATS.

Flags?
Sounds terribly interesting...

This is an example of the new approach:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Notice this aspect also:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Link to the news source from the forum subject listing.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Flags?

Sounds terribly interesting...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
This is an example of the new approach:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

lol

I saw your posting earlier, and I just knew you had something up your sleeve, as you didn't put any commentary with it.

I like the idea that the topic is open as soon as it is posted rather than the prior waiting period.

@SkepticOverlord


LMAO! ^^ the video.

[edit on 2/17/2007 by Mechanic 32]

I have a bit over 1000 articles authored in ATSNN and never found the process of submission to be intimidating int he the least. That being said one of the great aspects of being on ATS is that it strives to stay current and interesting.

ATSNN may very well have had its day in the sun and a new approach to how we debate and look at news on ATS would be welcome change

I'm going to get straight to the heart of the matter.
How do these changes improve ATS ?
Other times I have put my trust in the owners of this site when it came to changes but this time I have some concerns as I outlined above.

Isn't it kind of point less to have author of a news submission add there opinion below the submission when it can appear on the first post as it does now ?

I better add that I don't have a problem with flags just some concerns about the new news format. I guess the new format relies on other members posting there opinions rather then the author.

[edit on 17-2-2007 by xpert11]

Originally posted by xpert11
I guess the new format relies on other members posting there opinions rather then the author.

There's nothing to prevent the author from immediately following up with a post of their opinion and take on the news item.

We're applying nothing more than an "ATS spin" on news linking services such as DIGG, Delicious, or SlashDot (among many others). This method of comment-free or comment-limited initial post is gaining broad acceptance from the content copyright holders.

While we will likely end up refining the presentation (more on this soon... including the cunning use of flags), I think this is the right evolution for ATS.

High standards of authorship in follow-up posts and member comments will always be expected in Forum Number 1.

The new submission form and process is live and ready to rumble.

SkepticOverlord your response is very much appreciated. As a member has been around for a while I am grateful for the way ATS stands out from other forums. I will also do my best to keep an open mind after all I cant be right all the time.

Cunning use of flags sounds interesting, But we like options, we have light or dark as site options... How about Cake or Death in the news forum?

A few observations regarding this new system:

1) You might consider not augmenting the submitting member's post count on the initial submission. I really don't understand the reason to axe the member commentary on submissions? Is this because newer members frequently do this, and just post an article with no commentary?

2) With this system, the high quality, well sourced articles we used to see on ATSNN will be no longer. Who's going to bother anymore posting related links, and related ATS links? And members can forget about receiving any applause for the submissions as well, with no commentary allowed.

3) A 48-hour time limit on submissions may not be a wise idea, seeing as many great articles get discovered by ATS members well after that time period at more obscure websites days or weeks, even months after they appear, thereby limiting the content ATS members can submit to the news forum. Seems counterproductive. A month might be more reasonable imo, or no time limit at all.

4) I don't understand why you just don't kill ATSNN alltogether, seeing as the rest of the ATS, AP, and BTS boards cover just about anything anyone could want to submit.

5) You might consider changing the description of the ATSNN forum, seeing as now these will not be member-authored news stories.

6) Maybe it's just me, but it seems that traffic on ATSNN decreased as quality decreased. Imo, this is largely due to the changes that have been made over the years, and the easing of restrictions. If you go to the ATSNN forum link you provided, and sort by views or replies, you will find that most of the threads with huge view and reply amounts were authored around 2004 or 2005, when there were stricter quality and sourcing requirements.

7) It appears that this move is geared towards providing new members with an easy way to post news stories, without having to really think about the story and provide meaningful commentary. Great for traffic, but questionable for quality and uniqueness. Is this all about traffic and dollars anymore, SO? I honestly want to know. Someone has to ask the tough questions around here, and as usual I don't mind. If you can can give us some good reasons why this move is geared towards quality, and not quantity, I am all ears.

I decided to give it a try, posted this.

Obviously a UK story, looks very bleak to me.

I have only ever submitted to ATSNN once before [got binned], preferring the less formal "Other Current Events" forum for stories that catch my eye.

However, as I stated previously, I often browse through ATSNN, indeed, it is my main source for news, and gets checked before BCC, and Reuters.

I have to agree with most of the points made by TrueAmerican. Especially this one:

It appears that this move is geared towards providing new members with an easy way to post news stories, without having to really think about the story and provide meaningful commentary. Great for traffic, but questionable for quality and uniqueness.

There are some fantastic minds let loose upon these domains. It is the commentary that makes the presentation of these stories unique. I cannot understand why you would want to end that. I've engaged in debate on ATSNN threads in the past, not because of the content of the news item, but due to the way in which it has been presented, the spin put on to it, or just the simple difference in point of view expressed by an OP and my own.