Space Navy?

So I was watching a WW2 documentary on the Japanese Navy, with the huge Yamoto and all, I was wondering, in the eventual creation of a "Space Navy" what kind of ships would created, and other things like how big they would best be, or what kind of weapons with for-seeable technology, and stuff like that. Just wanted to hear your thoughts. thanks

President Dan

Hey my cousin was pondering this subject a few days back. Andy is that you?
Anyways He was drawing a distinction between submarines and their air tight builds would be perfect for space according to him. They have extremely air tight construction(duh) and according to him are built to withstand greater pressure forces that are inherent in deep water which dont seem to exist the same (pressure forces) as in space. Hell he even thinks that turning the reactor from a propeller driving force to a known space type of propellent would work as well. He says we allready have wonderfull space ships its just we need to figure out how to ad minor adaptations for space use and then theres the ever present problem of how do you get something that big in space. Think about it a nuclear sub as we know it with say an ion drive or similar nuclear propulsion and fitted with small ballast like retro's and then instead of torpedos launched from tubes you have missles or probes or even fitted with lasers. Sounds way out there but it really isnt if you think about it.
Cool subject.

[edit on 17-2-2007 by VType]

yeah, cool stuff to think about. Submarine-like structure sounds good, and I was thinkin if we could make space stations in orbit, for big building projects, to make big ships. I liked the thought of a ship lookin like a modern battlship cruising through space very cool stuff

Sorry, negative on that one. Although alot of space technology comes from submarine technology, it is a very different world when you are worrying about vacuum vise pressure.
Submarines rely on a distinct operating world which is controlled by salinity, temperature, and the designs of the submarine to allow them to become neutrally buoyant at slow speeds. IE, a submarine designed for fresh water would just bounce on the surface in saltwater if it was not designed for it.
The requirements of a vacuum area and propulsion are much different, the heavy steel would not be required. Only the shielding for radiation from space would be required.
The requirements of a ocean submerged submarine are much different. Take an 18000 ton submarine and try to stop it in less than 15 minutes, make it neutrally buoyant at that depth and temperature, and now you have an idea at what we do......

Also, I bet that if you dumped a sub in space, it would explode. Although they are designed to take huge forces pressing in from the outside, it is a different story when it is being pushed out by the air inside. I would not be a willing test subject.

Do I hear 'extensive design modifications' . . .?

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
Also, I bet that if you dumped a sub in space, it would explode. Although they are designed to take huge forces pressing in from the outside, it is a different story when it is being pushed out by the air inside. I would not be a willing test subject.

Do I hear 'extensive design modifications' . . .?

I see your point but underwater wouldnt the air be trying to escape equally as hard as in space. Honestly they are air and water tight to yes keep water and harsh forces out but the same design insures that no air can escape either. Right? Kinda the same concept as space just a different kinda of space with way more pressure pushing on the vehicle.
And wouldnt it make sence with all the debris and such in space to have a thick skinned vehicle like a sub has vs. a thin skinned vehicle like our current systems. I mean if a bb sized piece of debris in space can penetrate our very own spacecraft it would most likely have a much harder time plowing through a thicker sub like skin which is pretty thick and designed to defeat minor to intermediate collisions(see the Navys own reports of under sea sub damage) as well as tons of pressure. I think it could work with of course some modifications. But hey its all sciencefiction at this point. I just think we seem to spend billions just to put in space the equivalent of human habitrails(ie gerbils,mice,etc..) they seem flimsy and very fragile and the constant damage done by small debris seems to warrant new concepts by NASA.

hi people these ideas that might be created in the future or maybe not] GRAVITY TANKS space marines space ships Around earth for protection Laser cannons space stations Drop pods maybe a new secret goverment that protects earth and makes new Technology

It would be much cheaper to build a sub in spacee than launch on into space for starters.
Now whether a sub works in space just fine or not is another thing.

A point to be noted is that if its cheaper to build space borne vessels in space itself then one might as well build one esp suited to those conditions.

First thing to appear needs to be corporations using space, because for actual military to be put into space it needs some sort of goal. There are no current threats, so not much reason to build space ships. And that is why space is under a treaty that prohibits it militarization.

First we need some privateers or aliens to be found. Then we build the Star Destroyers to annihilate them.

Well i think on/off the subject of space travel we need bigger ships to carry more food and oxygen and supplys.So we need to build something that is big enough for that but it cant be so big we cant get it into space.

I always liked the spaceship Cosmos-1 built by planetary society and launched by the russians in 2005 from a submarine[what a coincidence] to bad the launch failed and the cosmos didnt get into "elliptic" orbit, they havent got contact with the cosmos ever since..
The cosmos looked like this


So it was a solar ship with no engine, sailing on the sunwind[ not the electrical parts that causes nothern light but just the fotons] wich presses on the sails of the ship..every day the ship would get faster about 160 km/h fater a day and after 3 years 160.000 km/h..the problem is if the ship approaches the outer realms of our solar system, the sunwinds will decline..then a possibility would be to point a laser on the sails..now i wonder what happens if you attach the laser to the ship itself?
for weapons..i'd prefer the rail gun

www.solarsail.org

[edit on 18-2-2007 by Foppezao]

To begin to build an Intergalactic Navy, one would first need to build a shipyard in space.

Building a platform in space would set the very foundation for the technologies needed to build a Navy. If you can conquer the obstacles that stand in the way when constructing the shipyard, then building the ships should not be that hard.

Things to consider after the shipyard has been built(it's easier to build a ship in space instead of building it on Earth):
Propulsion, before we even do anything we need to figure out a way to propel the ships through space. Now this is A LOT harder than it sounds because even thought there is very little gravity in space, you still need something to propel a mass on a specific vector through a vacuum and maintain that vector heading.

Weapons systems, now of course if you're going to space it will be practical to design a whole new range of weaponry. These weapons will need to all be relatively long range because space is HUGE and any hostile encounters would take place over hundreds of miles and not yards as we see here on Earth. The THEL for example would be a close range weapon for perhaps picket.

Avionics are important as well. A whole new range of radar array and maybe even a new way of seeking out anything in space would be needed. The ship must also be controlled from a center and must have redundancies and back-up systems making the vessel extremely complicated.

Faster Than Light travel. This is what will most likely make a Space Navy impractical and not for-see able in the near future, or any kind of future for that matter. It would take several decades to hundreds of years to travel to even the nearest star system on sub-light power. So a form of propulsion that could propel an object faster than the speed of light would be needed. As we know this is impossible to do. But that is what they said about the Sound barrier. I guess all we need is time for this one; a lot of it.

Shattered OUT...

Why do you need food and oxygen? IMO a space navy would no more be manned than the current fleet of satellites.

Putting people up there is expensive and dangerous and takes up a lot of weight, while unmanned systems are getting smaller all the time. It's gonna be all robots out there...

Thats an interesting question i recently saw an article about some kind of transport for marines which is still a concept but it carries them into space and back to earth. Im not sure if you can call that a Space Navy but feel free to do so-Falken

Originally posted by Wembley

Why do you need food and oxygen? IMO a space navy would no more be manned than the current fleet of satellites.

Putting people up there is expensive and dangerous and takes up a lot of weight, while unmanned systems are getting smaller all the time. It's gonna be all robots out there...

What would be the purpose of human life to do then? Send robots to far off places?

I think a lot of people would prefer to go to other planets instead of seeing video feed of it.

Shattered OUT...

Like I said somewhere else,
When inter planetary space becomes lucrative, only then will space faring attack vessels be required.
Think of it like the exact same way terrestrial naval power evolved. The key was colonization and resource acquisition. Same situation here..

A submarine explode in space? No, the inherent design it has would hold it together, but the air leakage would be prohibitive. A submarine is designed to hold pressure OUT, not in. Most maintain a near ground level atmospheric pressure at all times. Maintaining this pressure is what allows the design to work better at maintaining the pressure outside.
A vacuum operating vehicle is designed from the opposite, and it's pressure seals are opposite of what a submarine is designed as. IE, in a vacuum, a hatch would be designed to seal tighter when it has a pressure from the internal side.
The technologies are similar, but have to be modified versus the pressure vise vacuum, and the mediums involved, ie gas versus liquid.
Pretty simple.....

Thanks for the insight submergedthreat it seems you are speaking from experience(hence your forum name I assume). Im pretty sure as stated above we could build a "our solar system" fleet if we first build a space or moon ship yard. But we have such limited speeds for interstellar travel that even our own small little Galaxy would take many years to transverse. I think we have the building capabilities but its that damn speed or powerplant issue we need to make leaps and bounds on. And wouldnt our current Earth bourne Lasers be even more effective in space? I like the original posters idea of a retro 40's-50's type large space ship/naval ship like fleet in space no matter how inconcievable it is to us right now. Kinda like that Sky Captain and World of Tomarrow type of Art Decco design/feel.
Ahh Too dream is priceless.

Right now all the military would want to protect in space is satellites so it would either need some type of defensive capability to protect the satellites. It also might want some type of offensive ability to attack other nations satellites similar to the weapon China recently tested. You don't really need large space ships for most of that. I don't see a need for large manned Space vessels in the near future. Maybe in the distant future if people start colonizing other plantets. We'll likely take our political natures with us into space. Sooner or later we may fight over some other planet or resource in space. By then though, we'd likely send robots to do the fighting for us.

[edit on 22-2-2007 by Delta 38]

Well first off a space navy would also have the addition of space fighters later on... Think about it, something small, fast, agile and gets up so close you cannot aim with larger guns... On the whole battles would take place closer than most would think because of the TIME it takes a shot to REACH that target miles away... If your 100 miles away you have TIME to move around and dodge, unless you fire weapons in many directions all at once like a scatter gun you have to get in closer. Missiles will be the only thing that allows long distance shots since you can guide them to a degree, then again they can pop it from a good distance to boot. Problem is: unless you have darn good armor or shields, the shrapnel will tear you up even if you "stop" the missile.

Space navy would require (as others have said) a space port of some kind, and a space shipyard. One for building, one for maintance. As far as humans, you would HAVE to have humans INSIDE the ship, the time it takes signals to reach their target are too long, the enemy would be all over you before you got the "turn right 0.02 degrees" halfway typed out or sent. It is better to have someone ONBOARD and SITTING there with a joystick acting ON THE SPOT with direct and 0 lag interuption when in combat rather than a 10 minute delay for orders, or in some cases: DAYS or WEEKS depending on how far away you are.

What would they look like? If smart: oval shaped to allow 0 problems with moving around, easy to cut through space (yes there is small particles in space) and also if you had to take it down to a planet you COULD. Also attacks are deflected...
What would we call them? I dont know, how about taking a chapter from Star Trek? Call it the Enterprise for all I care. Call them Battleships, Destroyers, Cruisers, so on.
Speed: WARNING! PROBLEM! You HAVE to be able to hit 10-20 times the speed of light or else you are stuck in our own solar system for a VERY, VERY,`VERY long time! Hit 25x the speed of light and we might actually make it to Alpha Centari before hitting 50,000 years of age. Show up nice and fleshy not a shriveled prune or pile of dust.