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Originally posted by TL
With so many radars and satellites, and even the airport, how could people have not been warned? Wouldn't the airport have said that their planes were dramatically changing course? But supposedly "no one" knew until they saw the planes hit the towers. They could have monitored the new courses the planes were taking and evacuated "targets of terrorist interest".
Originally posted by TL
With so many radars and satellites, and even the airport, how could people have not been warned?
Wouldn't the airport have said that their planes were dramatically changing course?
They could have monitored the new courses the planes were taking and evacuated "targets of terrorist interest".
nick7261
Curiously, even though they never lost Flight 11 from radar until it hit WTC1, the FAA told NEADS that Flight 11 did NOT hit WTC1 and was heading south towards Washington
Originally posted by Nygdan
Planes are not continuously monitored every inch of their journey, and certainly not be a single source. When they are monitored, its through a transponder, not a radar, and the information is being passed off from one center to the next.
Wouldn't the airport have said that their planes were dramatically changing course?
The airports that they left from weren't concerned, nor should they be, with where the planes are after they leave their airspace. THe airports work the planes taking off and landing.
You couldn't tell what the target was simply by drawing a line straight off the plane, there'd be thousands of buildings along that line. You'd've had to evacuate the entire eastern seaboard. And no one ever suspected that those planes were going to purposely crash into buildings. When the first one hit, everyone thought it was an accident, let alone a hijacking.
Thats because the planes aren't tracked by a single radar source. They send transponder to different centres, and those centres have to communicate with one another to put their information together. You siad it yourself, they got a REPORT that the plane was still in flight, they weren't radar tracking it every inch of the way.
Originally posted by nick7261
It is completely false to imply that the controllers weren't concerend about the hijacked planes. Why post something that's so blatanly false?
First they told Johnstown that Flight 93 was heading north, coming in from the south, at 20 miles outside of Johnstown (which was incorrect) and then dramatically changed course to head back south again when Flight 93 was 15 miles south of Johnstown.
It is completely false that "everybody" thought that Flight 11 was an accident. The FAA knew that Flight 11 was a hijacking almost immediately after it was hijacked.
and 29 minutes after the FAA was informed that it was hijacked, Flight 93 was still flying over Pennsylvania unimpeded without a jet fighter anywhere near it.
How could the FAA get a "report" or anything else from Flight 11 when the transponder was turned off, AND the plane had already hit WTC1? Where would the "report" come from?
You don't really believe that there's somebody writing up reports from transponder signals and sending them back and forth to ATC centers, do you?
Of course the controllers "lost track" of Flight 93 -they were ordered out of the control tower by the FAA.
The centers in question all had radar. Lack of a transponder signal does NOT make a plane mysteriously disappear from radar.
hour and 38 minutes after the FAA was aware of the first hijacking[...]there was still not a military response to Flight 93 flying over Pennsylvania. Why?
www.cooperativeresearch.org.../11
] Boston flight controller Mark Hodgkins later says, “I watched the target of American 11 the whole way down.” [ABC News, 9/6/2002] However, apparently, NEADS has different radar. When they are finally told about the flight, they cannot find it. Boston has to update NEADS on Flight 11’s position periodically by telephone until NEADS finally finds it a few minutes before it crashes into the WTC
www.cooperativeresearch.org.../11
at “[a]bout 8:30, 8:35” he receives a phone call from one of the sergeants, informing him of the h[they suit up, get breifed and ready...]About 4-5 min. later, we got the scramble order and took off.”
www.cooperativeresearch.org.../11
[8:34 am]
Flight controllers hear a hijacker on Flight 11 say to the passengers: “Nobody move, please, we are going back to the airport. Don’t try to make any stupid moves.”
www.cooperativeresearch.org.../11
[8:37 am]
Flight 11 passes from Boston flight control airspace into New York flight control airspace. Flight controller John Hartling takes over monitoring the plane. However, when a colleague tells him the flight is hijacked, he is incredulous: “I didn’t believe him.
Originally posted by TL
They actually told people to go back to the other tower when the first tower was hit saying it was "safer to stay inside". Couldn't they see the other hijacked plane coming?
The reponse was so uncoordinated because there IS no system in place to alert every air traffic controller and jet pilot as to what is going on.
Originally posted by nick7261
The FAA has redundant systems in place on how to handle hijackings, including notifying NEADS immediately.
The real mystery isn't about uncoordinated responses, it's about how the FAA could provide affirmative information to NEADS and to ATCs that was entirely false.
Saying, "I'm not sure where the planes are..." is a huge difference from saying, "I'm sure Flight 11 did NOT hit WTC1 and is heading south towards Washington D.C."
www.cooperativeresearch.org.../11=&startpos=100
I have a burning building and you have a missing airplane. This is very coincidental.” The assumption is quickly made at New York and Boston flight control centers that Flight 11 has hit the WTC
Don't confuse ATCs with FAA officials. They're not the same. It was the FAA who provided the misinformation, not ATCs
www.cooperativeresearch.org.../11=&startpos=200
Boston Air Traffic Control Center Mistakenly Tells NEADS Flight 11 Is Still Airborne
www.cooperativeresearch.org.../11=&startpos=100
“Okay. This is New York [flight control]. We’re watching the airplane [Flight 11]. I also had conversation with American Airlines, and they’ve told us that they believe that one of their stewardesses was stabbed and that there are people in the cockpit that have control of the aircraft, and that’s all the information they have right now.” The manager is unaware Flight 11 has already crashed.
Originally posted by TL
With so many radars and satellites, and even the airport, how could people have not been warned? Wouldn't the airport have said that their planes were dramatically changing course? But supposedly "no one" knew until they saw the planes hit the towers. They could have monitored the new courses the planes were taking and evacuated "targets of terrorist interest".
Originally posted by Nygdan
Originally posted by nick7261
The FAA has redundant systems in place on how to handle hijackings, including notifying NEADS immediately.
The FAA didn't even notify its own command until well into the situation.
The real mystery isn't about uncoordinated responses, it's about how the FAA could provide affirmative information to NEADS and to ATCs that was entirely false.
Its called 'errors'. Are you alleging that the individual employees at the FAA were 'in' on the terror attacks?
Saying, "I'm not sure where the planes are..." is a huge difference from saying, "I'm sure Flight 11 did NOT hit WTC1 and is heading south towards Washington D.C."
They gave conflicting reports, and they did that because they were getting conflicting information. Crap in, crap out.
The ATCs didn't even know what was going on:
www.cooperativeresearch.org.../11=&startpos=100
I have a burning building and you have a missing airplane. This is very coincidental.” The assumption is quickly made at New York and Boston flight control centers that Flight 11 has hit the WTC
Don't confuse ATCs with FAA officials. They're not the same. It was the FAA who provided the misinformation, not ATCs
www.cooperativeresearch.org.../11=&startpos=200
Boston Air Traffic Control Center Mistakenly Tells NEADS Flight 11 Is Still Airborne
ATC Scoggins decided that it was still in the air, extrapolated its flight path, discussed it with a supervisor, and reported it to the military. He says he overheard 'someone' on a teleconference call with the FAA say Flight 11 was still in the air, and went on from that.
Looks like, in reality, he made a mistake.
www.cooperativeresearch.org.../11=&startpos=100
“Okay. This is New York [flight control]. We’re watching the airplane [Flight 11]. I also had conversation with American Airlines, and they’ve told us that they believe that one of their stewardesses was stabbed and that there are people in the cockpit that have control of the aircraft, and that’s all the information they have right now.” The manager is unaware Flight 11 has already crashed.
[edited to correct ex tags -nygdan]
[edit on 17-2-2007 by Nygdan]
Originally posted by LightWorker13
Its funny how those hi jackers managed to fly the planes to their destinations without any kind of control tower help, they didnt speak english, how could they have read the little nobs!
whenever a plane loses contact with the control tower, they are required by their own policy, you can go see it on their website, to scramble planes to intercept that plane and find out whats going on.
These questions exist because the government hasnt answered them, so until they do, I will have no choice but to believe they are complicit and are covering it up.
Originally posted by LightWorker13
Its funny how those hi jackers managed to fly the planes to their destinations without any kind of control tower help, they didnt speak english, how could they have read the little nobs!
Originally posted by malganis
Just a quick question; do large passenger planes have any kind of 'emergency button' like they do in banks?
Or maybe not a big red emergency button, but some kind of trouble signal that would quickly alert the air traffic control that something is wrong?
Originally posted by bothered
You know, it's funny, and ill-spoken of, but it's assumed that they used there GPS enabled cell phones that were calibrated to show current status.
The towers also, at the indication of trouble, flip on a monitoring microphone.
Originally posted by Nygdan
Originally posted by bothered
You know, it's funny, and ill-spoken of, but it's assumed that they used there GPS enabled cell phones that were calibrated to show current status.
?
Pilots don't need a control tower to tell them how to get anywhere. Also, the pilots could've flown the jets torward NYC and DC, if they thought it was just a hijacking, they'd expect to be re-directed to a different airport.
The towers also, at the indication of trouble, flip on a monitoring microphone.
Do you have a citation for that? The stuff I have been reading has said that the pilots were periodically turning the recorders on and off as they could while the hijacking was going on.