No bottom floor explosion signs; and janitor

Why don't I see explosives shooting out at the lower floors? Do you? If you don't see it then it can't be a controlled demolition.
Why didn't that hispanic conspiracy janitor see signs of explosive placements during his rounds?

If bombs were used do you expect them to have had BOMB written on them with bells, whistles, and flashing lights going off so that everyone would notice them?

Originally posted by LAGoff
Why don't I see explosives shooting out at the lower floors? Do you? If you don't see it then it can't be a controlled demolition.
Why didn't that hispanic conspiracy janitor see signs of explosive placements during his rounds?

The subbasement level had explosions, and there were witnesses.
Try again.

Why were all the lobby windows blown out and people on fire by the time the first fire fighters got there, they were only a few block away filming a documentary ?

What I find interesting is that in Willie Rodgequez first interview, he mentioned NOTHING about explosions in the basement.

William Rodriguez worked on the basement level of the north tower and was in the building when the first plane struck his building.

"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."

Rodriguez, who had keys to the elevators, began climbing the upper levels of the tower with a police officer to help trapped people. He saw firefighters weighted with rescue equipment catching their breath on the 39th floor.

Rodriguez escaped and said he later saw people who had jumped or fallen from the building embedded in the sidewalk. "There was a woman that looked like she had melted into the cement," he said.

archives.cnn.com...

I'm not 100% sure, but I would say that the quote i bolded somewhat supports the fireball theory.



[edit on 17-2-2007 by CameronFox]

There were alot more witnesses than just Rodriguez as stated here

Originally posted by CameronFox
I'm not 100% sure, but I would say that the quote i bolded somewhat supports the fireball theory.



[edit on 17-2-2007 by CameronFox]

The only probelm with the fireball theory is where did the fuel come from to make a big enough fireball to get all the way down to the basement levels, most of the fuel was burned off in the intial explosion (which occured on the exterior of the building) and the rest burned off pretty quickly according to the NIST and FEMA reports.

Originally posted by crowpruitt
There were alot more witnesses than just Rodriguez as stated here

I went to the site you posted. Thank you... i didnt look at all of the witnesses yet, but allow me to point out:

According to 9/11 hero, William Rodriguez, the last person to leave the North Tower alive, who himself rescued 14 people that day, he was in sublevel one and there was an explosion which shook the building and cracked the walls. Seconds later, his co-worker came running in -- on fire with skin peeling off his arms - yelling "Explosion! Explosion!", and then right as Rodriguez had time to process what was going on, a second explosion rocked the building: The alleged impact of American Airlines Flight 11.

This contradicts the interview he gave to CNN on September 12,2001

On 9/12/01, Fireman Louie Cacchioli told People Magazine: "I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building."

On September 12, 2001, People Magazine ran a few short paragraphs about the 20-year veteran New York fireman( Louie Cacchioli )hearing what sounded like bombs exploding in the north tower.
Actually, Cacchioli was pretty pissed-off that People Magazine misquoted him, saying "there were bombs" in the building when all he said was he heard "what sounded like bombs" without having definitive proof bombs were actually detonated.

I will look into the rest of the witnesses on this site, and I am 100% certain they too heard what sounded like bombs... but as it has been mentioned in here hundreds of times... explosions do not always mean bombs.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
The only probelm with the fireball theory is where did the fuel come from to make a big enough fireball to get all the way down to the basement levels, most of the fuel was burned off in the intial explosion (which occured on the exterior of the building) and the rest burned off pretty quickly according to the NIST and FEMA reports.

Hey Ultima!

Yes I read that too, but I thought it was NIST that said that there was a fireball down the shaft... contradiction? I don't want to take this thread off topic with the fireball theory, I was just pointing out the possibility of Willies testimony as somewhat supporting that theory. Willie said that a man cam off the elevator with his face peeling off... explosions/bombs would casue more contiusuons than the peeling of skin. (just IMO) Im not an EMT, Paramedic, ER Doctor... ( although I am forced to watch Greys Anatomy with my wife)

Originally posted by LAGoff
Why didn't that hispanic conspiracy janitor see signs of explosive placements during his rounds?

Why is the fact that he is hispanic relevant? How does him reporting what he heard make him a conspiracy theorist? That guy saved peoples lives on 911.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by LAGoff
Why didn't that hispanic conspiracy janitor see signs of explosive placements during his rounds?

Why is the fact that he is hispanic relevant? How does him reporting what he heard make him a conspiracy theorist? That guy saved peoples lives on 911.

Allow me to speak for LAGoff... he may not have know his name but remembered it being of Hispanic origin. Willie Rodgequez is very popular with CTers and I believe is a memeber of one of the Truth Movement organizations. Willie is a hero in that he saved lives...no one is disputing that...but his story did change.

I wouldn't consider including additional information changing your story. I would consider it giving additional information.

Originally posted by LAGoff
Why don't I see explosives shooting out at the lower floors? Do you? If you don't see it then it can't be a controlled demolition.

You're thinking of charges that typically go off at the foundations, not necessarily the lowest floor. And there were such explosions. This is what Rodriguez reported, along with other credible witnesses for whom you can find video and audio or some other credible source (Phillip Morelli, Mike Pecoraro, Felipe David, etc.).


Mike Pecoraro in particular described an explosion that destroyed a machine shop, and produced loads of thick white smoke, which can be backed up with photo evidence:









See that white smoke creeping up from the base of the towers? This is what was reported, coming from the area in which it was reported. This is the smoke that resulted from underground explosions.

Why didn't that hispanic conspiracy janitor see signs of explosive placements during his rounds?

Uh, why is he claiming there were bombs in the basement if he didn't see signs of explosives?

Just a few tidbits :

Mike Pecoraro:

"We smelled kerosene," Mike recalled, "I was thinking maybe a car fire was upstairs", referring to the parking garage located below grade in the tower but above the deep space where they were working.

"When I walked out into the lobby, it was incredible," he recalled. "The whole lobby was soot and black, elevator doors were missing."

" I am thinking to myself, how are these sprinkler heads going off? It takes a lot of heat to set off a sprinkler head. It never dawned on me that there was a giant fireball that came through the air of the lobby. I never knew that until later on. The jet fuel actually came down the elevator shaft, blew off all the (elevator) doors and flames rolled through the lobby. That explained all the burnt people and why everything was sooted in the lobby."

Willie Rodegequez and Felipe David:

A fellow worker Felipe David came into the maintenance office. “He had been standing in front of the freight elevator on sub-level 1 about 400 feet from the office when fire burst out of the elevator shaft, causing his terrible injuries.” The skin on his face had been peeled away by the heat of the blast and he was horribly burned on thirty-three percent of his body. “He was burned so badly from the basement explosion that flesh was hanging from his face and both arms.” William asks: “How could a jetliner hit 90 floors above and burn a man’s arms and face to a crisp in the basement below within seconds of impact?” William carefully led Felipe David outside to safety and medical assistance.

www.newswithviews.com...

Philip Morelli:

Construction worker Phillip Morelli, a 37-year-old Queens native, loved his seven years of working at the World Trade Center. When he heard the impact of the first airliner striking more than 90 floors above, he thought something big had tipped over in one of the other basement levels just above him.

www.ny1.com...


Let us not forget Mr. Rodgequez's ORIGINAL interview:

William Rodriguez worked on the basement level of the north tower and was in the building when the first plane struck his building.

"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."

Rodriguez, who had keys to the elevators, began climbing the upper levels of the tower with a police officer to help trapped people. He saw firefighters weighted with rescue equipment catching their breath on the 39th floor.

Rodriguez escaped and said he later saw people who had jumped or fallen from the building embedded in the sidewalk. "There was a woman that looked like she had melted into the cement," he said.

archives.cnn.com...

Nothing about explosions under him...or bombs.

Just some food for thought

More food for thought: liquid jet fuel ran down the core structure, there was a parking garage right over Pecoraro when the explosive events took place, and the initial fireballs were not high explosions but deflagrations.

They barely removed aluminum panels, let alone the steel columns:




And yet they can travel 1000+ feet and destroy a machine shop, without blowing out the unprotected elevator shafts?


Not to mention, there were only two shafts that WENT to the basements, and both of them are accounted for: the main freight's operator survived with little injury, and car 6 only went to B1.


Meditate on this photo and consider for yourself how likely it would ever be for a non-decompressing overpressure to go flying down this whole length of building without blowing out the shafts, just to destroy so much in the basements:



[edit on 17-2-2007 by bsbray11]

What he heard "before" is irrelevant. When a building is demolished the explosives are set off roughly at the same time- from bottom to top(this what I heard). There is no "before". It's possible we don't see smoke shooting out at the lower levels because they set them on the inside collums- i.e., if people saw smoke shooting as we usually see from a demolition they would know it was planned. I don't know. I'm just speculating. Does anybody know if smoke shoots out from all floors noticeably at a typical demolition ? Can demolishers aim the blasts inward so they don't shoot out?
As far as me calling him "hispanic" instead of by name, I didn't know his name at the time and I was too lazy to google it. I still don't know it; I'm terrible with names.

What people "typically" do during an explosive demolition has absolutely no bearing on what is physically possible.

Also, there is no such thing as a typical explosive demolition. Every building is a different situation.

ok ... so fire balls of jet fuel cant blow off elevator doors becasue the unprotected shafts stayed intact?

So..we are lead to believe that the BOMBS that were planted CAN?

Originally posted by bsbray11
What people "typically" do during an explosive demolition has absolutely no bearing on what is physically possible.

Also, there is no such thing as a typical explosive demolition. Every building is a different situation.

That is absolutely true and I'm also weary of folks who keep saying that since the buildings fell from the top down that it couldn't have POSSIBLY been a CD.

I'm not sure how you want to respond to that Bray but one thing I'm sure of, the perimeters of WTC 1 and 2 were unique in the sense that they were capable of handling quite a bit of the gravitational load of the building along with INSANE lateral load bearing capability. (40+ % gravitational last time I checked) There were OVER 200 perimeter collumns with an extremely strong network or lattice attached to them. If one knocked out the cores.. especially starting at the area nearest the top you can rest assured these building would have collapsed just the way you saw them collapse. Keep in mind that perimeter structure was STILL no match for the 47 interconnected box collumns at the central core of the building. That in and of itself makes the time it took the buildings to collapse EXTREMELY suspect. (damning to me). These buildings fell at nearly free fall speed. I could see the resistance put up by the perimeter structure slowing things down a bit and helping to shred the innards as the core fell but with the core in place and top falling INTO it? NO WAY.

Originally posted by CameronFox
ok ... so fire balls of jet fuel cant blow off elevator doors becasue the unprotected shafts stayed intact?

Unless you think drywall is stronger than concrete and steel, and that distance doesn't dissipate an overpressure, then logically yes.

You do realize that an overpressure is not sentient, and is going to follow thermodynamic laws of least resistance, right? Not going to head for steel and concrete for release when a weak drywall wall is right there.

[edit on 17-2-2007 by bsbray11]

Got a little off base but I do have a question. Specifically for BSBray.


I don't believe any pressure wave from the intial impact made it down to the basement as illustrated by the evidence that I've seen but, is it possible that some jet fuel made it down into the basement, caused some concentration of vapour and 'then' exploded after it got there?

Just a thought.