The Injustice of Hell

For millions of Christians, Hell is okay. Christians praise God the Father every Sunday morning for his love and mercy, all the while convinced that punishing unbelievers in Hell is completely ethical and morally sound. For them there is no human holocaust, nothing unfair about it. It is a deserved consequence meted out by a good and just God.

God, they say, must punish sin. People sin and they deserve to be punished, apparently in the worst way possible. We must be punished as a parent punishes his child. But there is a limit. We can't set children on fire because we know that it is inhumane. It is no longer about the punishment but the ethical treatment of a human being. Unethical treatment is not okay for a Supreme Being. Actively punishing people in the fire of Hell is terrible abuse.


But some Christians use the passive punishment argument to justify Hell. God warns us about Hell so when he go there, it is our fault not his. But is it really? Those with children should leave the stove on for a day and see how you feel when your child gets burned.

Keep your stove on and let some children play with toys. Warn them not to touch the stove. When they burn themselves, use the Christian argument and tell the parents it is not your fault. I wonder what they would say. Their injuries are your fault. You turned on the stove just like God created Hell. He is solely responsible for its attributes, and what it does to people.

And the eternity of Hell rids God of his "Divine Mercy." And there is no remedial value to Hell. Its only purpose is to inflict pain. The punishment of Hell is merely sadistic.

I wonder why is it that the Nazis are condemned, while the Christian God is praised, when he treats people infinitely worse. Both committed ethical violations but it should be different for a Supreme Being.


[Edited on 18-12-2003 by maynardsthirdeye]

maynard

I have discussed my views on hell many times before on this board. I do not buy into the "eternal fire" of hell for non-believers. But I do believe they are subject to an eternity in a place that there is no God-presence; a place of utter darkness and lack of any goodness whatsoever. And as I have stated before, I believe this to be the scariest thing I can imagine.

The results of the free-moral decisions of people are placed solely on the decider. To try to place the consequences on anyone but the decider is a cop-out.

But God created the place of eternal darkness, he turned the lights off. He created the decisions.

I don't believe free will exists. Read this quote from William C. Easttom II

"God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in hell. That sir, is not free will. It would be akin to a man telling his girlfriend, do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out. When a man says this we call him a psychopath and cry out for his imprisonment. When god says the same we call him "loving" and build churches in his honor."

While you don't believe there is fire, it is still punishment and it is the scariest thing imaginable.

[Edited on 18-12-2003 by maynardsthirdeye]

No. I absolutely don't agree with your quote.

It would be equivalent to (if we diminunize it down to a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship) the boyfriend saying "Okay, you have the right to decide to love me or not love me, but if you decide not to, you will absolutely not have my presence or love in your life."

To say that God "created the darkness" is a twist. Look at it this way: If you choose to not be at a function because of the ill feelings of the attendees toward you, your presence will not be known or felt there. Any sensation of loss by the attendees cannot be blamed on you...especially if you gave them forewarning that you wouldn't attend if the they continued to have the ill-feelings toward you. The lack of your presence is due to you not being there, not because you imparted some lack upon the party. It is a result, not a direct action.

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
For millions of Christians, Hell is okay. Christians praise God the Father every Sunday morning for his love and mercy, all the while convinced that punishing unbelievers in Hell is completely ethical and morally sound. For them there is no human holocaust, nothing unfair about it. It is a deserved consequence meted out by a good and just God.

God, they say, must punish sin. People sin and they deserve to be punished, apparently in the worst way possible. We must be punished as a parent punishes his child. But there is a limit. We can't set children on fire because we know that it is inhumane. It is no longer about the punishment but the ethical treatment of a human being. Unethical treatment is not okay for a Supreme Being. Actively punishing people in the fire of Hell is terrible abuse.


But some Christians use the passive punishment argument to justify Hell. God warns us about Hell so when he go there, it is our fault not his. But is it really? Those with children should leave the stove on for a day and see how you feel when your child gets burned.

Keep your stove on and let some children play with toys. Warn them not to touch the stove. When they burn themselves, use the Christian argument and tell the parents it is not your fault. I wonder what they would say. Their injuries are your fault. You turned on the stove just like God created Hell. He is solely responsible for its attributes, and what it does to people.

And the eternity of Hell rids God of his "Divine Mercy." And there is no remedial value to Hell. Its only purpose is to inflict pain. The punishment of Hell is merely sadistic.

I wonder why is it that the Nazis are condemned, while the Christian God is praised, when he treats people infinitely worse. Both committed ethical violations but it should be different for a Supreme Being.


[Edited on 18-12-2003 by maynardsthirdeye]

I agree, God is nothing like he's portrayed by the Church in regards to many things, including the idea of Hell.

Check this link out i posted a week ago, scroll down to 'The Sermon'.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Valhall
maynard

I have discussed my views on hell many times before on this board. I do not buy into the "eternal fire" of hell for non-believers. But I do believe they are subject to an eternity in a place that there is no God-presence; a place of utter darkness and lack of any goodness whatsoever. And as I have stated before, I believe this to be the scariest thing I can imagine.
on anyone but the decider is a cop-out.

But if God is supposed to be infinite and omnipresent, how can any place exist that is without God's presence? To be infinite and omnipresent, by definition, is to encompass everything and exist everywhere at once. If God exists infinitely, and everywhere, God would have to be in hell also wouldn't It?

If hell exists what crime committed can be so bad that the perpetrator is bound there for all eternity. Even the very worst sins and actions committed by us here on earth must surely have there atonement point where we have paid for it and learnt our lesson. I do not believe in eternal hell nor an endless paradise they both seem pointless, if there is an afterlife it should encompass more than that.

Ahh...but just because he is in the room, doesn't mean he'd have to let you know of his presence....

Not that I support, or believe in God, just making the logical arguement....

When you die, you become another form of energy, unsolidified. According to Jesus, you don't feel pain after you've taken your last breath, however, according to the Religious community, you do if your burning in hell. God's mercy endures forever? I hardly think that could possibly be true if your in hell. Are they saying his mercy endureth forever but not in hell? If so, then God lied or, the writers of the Bible had it wrong. Personally when i was regularily attending church several yrs before i repented "changed my mind" heh, and stopped going, I'd always had it in my mind that the fire was speaking of the Holy Spirit Fire that cleanses all human beings, of course, i wouldn't have told 'them' that at the time for fear of being reprimanded.

Originally posted by Valhall
No. I absolutely don't agree with your quote.

It would be equivalent to (if we diminunize it down to a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship) the boyfriend saying "Okay, you have the right to decide to love me or not love me, but if you decide not to, you will absolutely not have my presence or love in your life."

To say that God "created the darkness" is a twist. Look at it this way: If you choose to not be at a function because of the ill feelings of the attendees toward you, your presence will not be known or felt there. Any sensation of loss by the attendees cannot be blamed on you...especially if you gave them forewarning that you wouldn't attend if the they continued to have the ill-feelings toward you. The lack of your presence is due to you not being there, not because you imparted some lack upon the party. It is a result, not a direct action.

But your comparison to people who feel ill towards you doesn't work. If the people don't like you, they won't feel scared or alone. They in fact might be happy you aren't present. Very much unlike your vision of Hell where everyone is scared and alone. For that comparison to work, there must be someone in Hell who is happy without God which you can't believe.

Plus, the Bible does not describe Hell the way some describe. The Bible talks about fire and pain and suffering, not darkness or separation from God or something mild.

If you look into the original concepts of hell, there are few instances of punishment. Punishment was usually reserved for those of a most "bastardly" nature.

Hell was mainly like here on Earth, do what thou wilt, etc, only you were cut off from "divinity" or eternal happiness. And, yes as Valhall pointed out, this is far scarier to many that belive in such things than hellfire. Trust me, I was one of them.

I belive the punishments only came into play mainly during the Middle ages, when churches sought to expand their powers through the accumulation of followers.

dos centivos

cheers

Originally posted by JuanBond
If you look into the original concepts of hell, there are few instances of punishment. Punishment was usually reserved for those of a most "bastardly" nature.

Hell was mainly like here on Earth, do what thou wilt, etc, only you were cut off from "divinity" or eternal happiness. And, yes as Valhall pointed out, this is far scarier to many that belive in such things than hellfire. Trust me, I was one of them.

I belive the punishments only came into play mainly during the Middle ages, when churches sought to expand their powers through the accumulation of followers.

dos centivos

cheers

Unfortunately, the typical fire and brimstone interpretation still pervades in Christianity.

And just a question, is your darkness interpretation of Hell a punishment for sins? Are you made to feel scared in the dark?

This subject is one of the reasons I am not strictly religious. Did you know that 'a hell' was a hole in the ground used to burn victims of extremly contagious diseases? I think that's where the 'fire and brimstone' image came from. "Be a good person or will burn in hell"

I also don't like the fact that some christian religions say that if you don't believe in God you go to hell. What about those who never heard of the concept? Those who were isolated from society burn in hell? For being isolated? Makes sense to me.

There are too many cotridictions and double standards for me to believe. Everytime I ask a person for proof of God, they say the Bible. Which was written by men, was it not? They may have had good intentions, but that doesn't make them right.

It's frustrating, but you cannot argue against faith.(one thing I have learned)

It is sad that some people still believe in Hell, no matter the interpretation.

It was originally used to be a scare tactic to get people in church.

You only go to Hell (Utah) if youv done something really bad...i know for a fact, since i AM TheDevil.

Seriously tho...there was a survey that says 80% of Christians that believe in Heaven DONT Believe in Utah errr Hell. They dont believe that god would punish them for there sins and send them to me.

-TheDevil

LMAO!^^^

I live in Hell(Utah) too bro.

I must have done something REALLY f*cked up in one of my previous lives.

Ok some ouf you talk like you read the bible non stop, in other words you know your stuff. But then you have no concept what it is saying, whatever hell is, God did not send you there. Nor did he create it , you have a choice, you can enter 1 of 2 doors . One has the devil , and the other has God. You choose which door you go into. And then from there on the person in there treats you like he wants. It even says that God will not send you to hell , you will go on your own behalf. Now in my own opinion I don't think it is fire and brimbstone. why becuase I was saw a documented case of a man that was dead for like 4 days, he says God showed him gell, he said he says it was Cold, and without god. He kept o syting the worst part was being without God. Now you may say "I don't believe in God, so it can't be that bad" even though you don't believe in him doesn't mean you are without him. You feel him , you just don't know. Lastly, no offense but why do you care if you don't believe in God, isn't because you are mad about somthing that could possible await you even if its only a 1 in a million chance for you? I honestly think you are full of # to question God, I doubt that you would be doing anything besides begging for you soul at the Gates of Heaven, now I must say that I got hur bad today and I am on Vikedin, so please excuse my grammer errors, ok thanks

Originally posted by infovacume
Ok some ouf you talk like you read the bible non stop, in other words you know your stuff. But then you have no concept what it is saying, whatever hell is, God did not send you there. Nor did he create it , you have a choice, you can enter 1 of 2 doors . One has the devil , and the other has God. You choose which door you go into. And then from there on the person in there treats you like he wants. It even says that God will not send you to hell , you will go on your own behalf.

So if God did not create hell but "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made"(John 1:1), then hell would be nothing (not any thing).

Hmmm, now there's a thought. Hell is Nothing. Since nothing cannot exist as anything, maybe when those who have not found their spiritual connection die, they simply become nothing, or hell. Also, since God is infinite, the only thing outside of God is nothing, so if hell is a place apart from God, we again are led to the conclusion that hell is nothing, or non-existance.