Sandia secret base: Does it really exist?

Originally posted by gfad
Ok, Kawich Ridge is listed on USGS maps as the ridge between the two plains Gold Flat and Kawich Valley (site of Lambs Pond/3-4) I think this quote suffices:

Originally posted by johnlear
The runways and associated hangars and other facililties are to the north of this main base on the desert flats. The landing strips are approximately south of a point midway between two dry lakes. The dry lake on the west is called Gold Flat, the dry lake on the east used to be called 3-4 (three dash four) but I don't know what it is called today.

OK. Sandia (main base), as I explained is on the Pahute Mesa. The hangars and the runways are north of that and south of a point midway between Gold Flat and what used to be 3-4.

Since Kawich extends north of a line between these 2 dry lakes how could the runways be east or west of Kawich? Thanks.

Well John since the point midway between the two dry lakebeds is slap bang in the middle of Kawich Mountain Ridge and anything directly south of that point will also be in the mountain ridge, I decided that they must be either east or west of the ridge! Pretty simple I thought.

Why dont you just mark on a map John and make it so uch easier for everyone?

Ive editted a satellite image so show all the places you have described as being home to the base or runways. Ive also put on the NTS and airspace border.



The black sites are places where you've said the base is. The purple places are where you've said the runways are.

Please pick one.

Originally posted by gfad

The black sites are places where you've said the base is. The purple places are where you've said the runways are.

Please pick one.

I agree with gfad on this one. Where exactly is this thing? This map puts Sandia in FOUR Different place. It's a military facility, it should have 1 location, not 4.

I say we supend all research into Sandia until we can put it in ONE permenent loction. Even Bob Lazar's S-4 has one location that doesn't change.

Tim

[edit on 3/2/2007 by Ghost01]

Originally posted by gfad
Ive editted a satellite image so show all the places you have described as being home to the base or runways. Ive also put on the NTS and airspace border.

The black sites are places where you've said the base is. The purple places are where you've said the runways are.

Please pick one.

Thanks gfad I surely will. However first I want to get one teensy weensy detail ironed out. It seems that one of us has mislocated the top or northern border of R-4807B. I made a small map here to show the difference as it will make a difference whether or not Sandia is inside R-4807B. The actual northern border is only about 3 miles long but I extended it left and right so that we can compare it to various features like Groom Lake. I'll let you go first.

Please pick one.

Unsuprisgly John, Ive done my research so I agree with myself. The border is the one I marked on my map and the one you've marked gfad's border on your map.

The northern border of R-4807B is a line between N37 23 00 W116 22 03 and N37 23 00 W116 17 03. This is just slightly south of the target airfield in Kawich Valley.

The border extends southwest to N37 21 00 W116 27 03 and south east to N37 20 00 W116 11 03.

Your turn.

Originally posted by gfad
Unsuprisgly John, Ive done my research so I agree with myself. The border is the one I marked on my map and the one you've marked gfad's border on your map.

The northern border of R-4807B is a line between N37 23 00 W116 22 03 and N37 23 00 W116 17 03. This is just slightly south of the target airfield in Kawich Valley.

The border extends southwest to N37 21 00 W116 27 03 and south east to N37 20 00 W116 11 03.

Your turn.

Gfad,

After careful inspection I agree with your northern border. You are totally correct as to where you placed it. I made an error in placing it farther to the north than it should have been. In tracing back to where my original error started, it started with assuming that the square cloud was over Sandia which it is not. Thanks for pressing the issue and getting me to straighten out my placement of Sandia.

Below is your map with all of the various places that I have said that there were runways and sites. Please erase all runway designations and site designations except for the one in green that I have added at the western portion of the northern border of N4807B.

The circle in green is where I now think that Sandia is. Last night I went over every scrap of material I have on Sandia and the green circle represents where I think Sandia is located.

Of course this could change so just pencil it in. Thanks for your help and guidance.

Hey John,

Using the above map as a guide, I've estimated about where the Cheshire Airstrip shoud be, base on the layout of the terrain. Have a look:




Does this look about right for the runway's location?

Tim

Originally posted by Ghost01
Hey John,

Using the above map as a guide, I've estimated about where the Cheshire Airstrip shoud be, base on the layout of the terrain. Have a look:

Does this look about right for the runway's location?

Tim

I don't know where the location is other than it is out on the plain. Your runway is 6 miles long which might be a tad more than they would need, but who knows? Thanks.

I was going for approximate location! I have no clue how long it might be.

Tim

Originally posted by johnlear
After careful inspection I agree with your northern border. You are totally correct as to where you placed it. I made an error in placing it farther to the north than it should have been. In tracing back to where my original error started, it started with assuming that the square cloud was over Sandia which it is not. Thanks for pressing the issue and getting me to straighten out my placement of Sandia.
...
Of course this could change so just pencil it in. Thanks for your help and guidance.

Thanks John.

I think its pretty cool that you can listen and discuss in a normal manner! Most people on these boards seem immovable and refuse to change their opinion. Its a sign of a true ATSer!

This strikes me as odd, now that I think about it: Why do we need to test nuke after nuke after nuke. They already have enough info to know what a nuke does, how it will effect different types of material, the extent of blast range and can calculate variations based on type of nuke employed. also, if they were exploding these things underground, in virtually the same vicinity, wouldn't one test fudge up the other test, with background residual data from the previous test?

Originally posted by undo
This strikes me as odd, now that I think about it: Why do we need to test nuke after nuke after nuke. They already have enough info to know what a nuke does, how it will effect different types of material, the extent of blast range and can calculate variations based on type of nuke employed.

undo,

Nuclear Weapons are built around harnessing the power of unstable atoms. This instability is what makes elements like Uranium and Plutonium radioactive. Being unstable also means the chemical and physical propetities of the bomb's core change over time.

They have to keep testing wepons to make sure the will function correctly and are still safe to handle as the compostiton of the core changes. For more information, you might want to research the properities of radioisotopes!

Tim

I think they also test new detonation devices etc. Nuclear weapons are still a relatively new weapons. I dont know exactly what they do out there on the test range but I'm sure its jsut expanding knowledge on nuclear explosions and more.

I was rereading Tom Mahoods article on Area 19 and I came across this statement under "The Rumors":

"The final rumor is a doozy. The story related to me was that a number of years ago, there was some sort of secret SDI laser facility at the termination of the powerline, in the center of the ring of roads. During testing there was an explosion that detroyed much of the faclity, resulting in its abandonment. Some time later, the 'saucer boys' renovated the facility and moved in."



Bob told me that the reason he was hired was that 2 scientists had been killed when they tried to cut an operating anti-matter reactor open. Yes, this sounds like a government test site project.

This incident above may have been that accident. Where Mahood says, "the saucer boys moved in" probably means they moved 'back in".

The incident occurred a year after Sandia became operational. The powerline makes sense in getting the massive power required for a laser operating or heck just to help power Sandia.

John,

That is one of the most intresting theories you have ever come up with! I'm truly impressed. Only one peice of this whole thing doesn't quite fit:

Bob said the Flying Saucer project was going on at S-4 on Papoose Lake. The explosion in question (as I understand it) is supposed to have occured at Sandia. What you are proposing here would suggest that this project was going on at two Different Top Secret Facilities at one time. (Please correct me if I'm Wrong)

To Me this makes no sense. Why Would they be using two different bases so close together?

Or, are you suggesting that S-4 was built to house the project while Sandia was being repaired?

Tim

Originally posted by Ghost01
John,

That is one of the most intresting theories you have ever come up with! I'm truly impressed. Only one peice of this whole thing doesn't quite fit:

Bob said the Flying Saucer project was going on at S-4 on Papoose Lake. The explosion in question (as I understand it) is supposed to have occured at Sandia. What you are proposing here would suggest that this project was going on at two Different Top Secret Facilities at one time. (Please correct me if I'm Wrong)

To Me this makes no sense. Why Would they be using two different bases so close together?

Or, are you suggesting that S-4 was built to house the project while Sandia was being repaired?

Tim

S-4 had nothing to do with where the antimatter reactor was tested. S-4 is a few miles south of Groom Lake. Dead Horse Flats is over 30 miles to the west of S-4. They had nothing to do with each other. Dad Horse Flats is were they allegedly had a high powered laser testing facility. All I said was that Mahood mentions an accident at the lasder facility at the same time that Bob mentioned the accident about cutting the anti-matter reactor in half.

You mention Sandia being repaired. I don't know that it was ever damaged. Do you?

Originally posted by johnlear
S-4 had nothing to do with where the antimatter reactor was tested. S-4 is a few miles south of Groom Lake. Dead Horse Flats is over 30 miles to the west of S-4. They had nothing to do with each other. Dad Horse Flats is were they allegedly had a high powered laser testing facility. All I said was that Mahood mentions an accident at the lasder facility at the same time that Bob mentioned the accident about cutting the anti-matter reactor in half.

You mention Sandia being repaired. I don't know that it was ever damaged. Do you?

I'm confused!

I thought the following were all true:

-The High Power Laser facility was at the End of the " Mystery Powerlines"
-The Area where the Powerline ended was Area 19
-Area 19 is the location of the Chesire Airstrip/Sandia

Help me! Where did I go wrong with my thinking?

Found a great GE overlay file, see if the information is correct and can anyone add to the pinpoints?

i141.photobucket.com...
i141.photobucket.com...





Click the image link for larger image...

Originally posted by Ghost01

I thought the following were all true:

-The High Power Laser facility was at the End of the " Mystery Powerlines"

Yes, it probably is.

-The Area where the Powerline ended was Area 19

Yes, that is correct.

-Area 19 is the location of the Chesire Airstrip/Sandia

Sandia airbase is out on the desert flats (outside of Area19) to the northwest of Sandia base which is underground below the Pahute Mesa. (inside of Area 19.)