Mall Shooting in Salt Lake City- multiple deaths

There is not much known but up to 10 are dead in a mall shooting in Salt Lake City. Apparently a man armed with weapons opened fire on crowds after pulling it from a trenchcoat. He was killed but there may be a second suspect which police state is no longer in the mall. Witnesses say he was killed in a shootout with police.

Link

Hopefully this is a nutjob and not a wanna be jihadist with a bad home life. More information as it comes in.

Ugh....great.... more propaganda for the anti-gun lobby. They will probably say he used an assualt rifle too. . Why every nut that goes on a shootout has to grab an assualt rilfle, I'll never know, but the fact is that if he used a shotgun, he would of caused more harm.

It is bieng reported that he was armed with a shotgun, and now it seems like 5 dead, multiple wounded. Sad.

There was also another shooting in Philadelphia...

Originally posted by esdad71
It is bieng reported that he was armed with a shotgun, and now it seems like 5 dead, multiple wounded. Sad.

Ugh, now I feel like I somehow was giving ideas....

Great, now more people are going to give me weird looks when ever I wear my trench coat, was bad enough after the Collumbine school shootings. This is very sad indeed, why would someone just decide, "Hey, lets go kill some random people at the mall". Were they mad at the world? People in general? The violence these days... But I guess with a growing population, leads to a little more of everything, including things of this nature. It's really sad.

news.yahoo.com...

All I can say is thatk God I joined this site! When I read this headline I got so angry that I cried, but also for those killed and injured and those who were terrified and hiding. I know that alot of social scientists say that all hatred and anger comes from fear. To that, I can only say that my hate for people who do these things is NOT out of fear, but out of my love for people and my rage is out of love for them as well. It may be insane to say this, but I wish I was there! Not all of us fear, but want to protect those who are afraid. I am SICK of seeing people hurting, I am SICK of people living in fear, I am SICK of people being afraid to live a live that they were meant to live! I am SICK of seeing children being victims of disgusting perverts! Good people with love to give are being silenced by fear and I can't stand it! I don't care what your politics are or what your beliefs are...you are a human being deserving to love and to give love and go to the freakin' mall with your kids , without fear! I can only imagine, not only God's rage for people who do these things, but also His pain in seeing a people so capable of love, being injured, killed, and hiding in a shopping mall for fear of being killed!
To everyone who is a member of this awsome website, all I can say is that you all have a God given destiny and a God given right to live a life that both receives love and one that gives it. The only race is the human race, and we all need each other. I for one, am blessed for needing others. I do not see it as a weakness, but a gift. And in writing this, I have calmed down somewhat. So no, not all anger is out of fear, the greatest anger, is that generated by the greatest power in Creation...love, and it's desire to protect life.

Wow, my brother's in Utah on a school skiing trip, I know they went to a mall in Salt Lake City the day before yesterday and I'm really hoping he's wasn't anywhere near there yesterday , my mum's crying with worry.

Originally posted by esdad71

Hopefully this is a nutjob and not a wanna be jihadist

Please dont take this the wrong way, but it is clear to me that you get the majority of your news from FOX, simply by this statement.
What is a 'wanna be jihadist' anyway?

They're saying it's only one gunman wearing a tan trenchcoat, but early reports do seem to point to a second perpetrator:


www.sltrib.com...
Ron Mason and DeEta Barta: they saw a man coming in from the west parking lot. The man, wearing a dark trench coat.... A woman on the lower level of the mall, near the Black Chandelier store, said she saw a shot and looked up upstairs and saw the gunman. He had a long dark coat. ....

kutv.com...
Witnesses say he gunman appeared to be in his early 20s, wearing a dark trench coat...


Well, I guess it could have been a dark tan trenchcoat, but that would be more aptly described as 'brown,' and no one used that description.



www.sltrib.com...
After police had shot dead the suspected shooter, police warned of a second shooter on the second floor of the mall.

ksl.com talk radio(from late on the twelth):
"They(witnesses) claimed they saw more than one person wearing trenchcoats."


Two trenchcoats, two weapons, two gunmen.

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by esdad71

Hopefully this is a nutjob and not a wanna be jihadist

Please dont take this the wrong way, but it is clear to me that you get the majority of your news from FOX, simply by this statement.
What is a 'wanna be jihadist' anyway?

I apologize, but I do not get my news from Fox. I wrote it in that fashion becasue it could have been a distraught husband, a 16 y/o who broke up with ihis girlfriend or a radical.

Now, if I immediately said this is a terror attack and we need to hide, I watch FOX and CNN. I am in fear.

To me, a "wanna be jihadist" is an American who often is delusional enough to take up for a cause that they do not understand and use it for attention or self gain with no true ties to anything.

Now we find that he was a Bosnian muslim, and there may have been a second shooter.

Major discrepancy here. A witness says the perp was scene at the mall 'several' hours earlier, yet his boss says he was at work until 5pm.


www.sltrib.com...
Before going on a shooting rampage in Trolley Square Monday night, Sulejman Talovic had worked a full day at his job. Talovic, who was 18, arrived at work at 8 a.m. and left at 5 p.m.....


www.sltrib.com...
--Jeremy Jensen, 26, of Salt Lake City, at Desert Edge, said he saw the shooter several hours earlier, walking through the brewery. He remembered his long, tan trenchcoat and that he had a mullet midway down his back. Jensen said he saw the man later enter the mall from the parking deck, carrying a shotgun.

www.sltrib.com...
Desert Edge employee Jeremy Jensen looked down from the second floor and spotted the gunman - a man he recognized as a brew pub customer from earlier that afternoon.


Though you can bet that this witness has since been strongly advised not to repeat such wild tales.

These a$$es just start off by turning the gun on themselves.
The guys in Utah were just to chicken$^!! to kill themselves and wanted someone else to do it for them.

Shooter/victims on the second floor? Officially the perp did not go up to the second floor nor was anybody shot on the second floor. But the witnesses say otherwise:


www.sltrib.com...
After police had shot dead the suspected shooter, police warned of a second shooter on the second floor of the mall.

www.sltrib.com...
A woman on the lower level of the mall, near the Black Chandelier store, said she saw a shot and looked up upstairs and saw the gunman. He had a long dark coat, dark brown hair and was carrying a rifle or shotgun, she said. ....

deseretnews.com...
Brad Merrill was waiting with his son outside of the Spaghetti Factory when a shooter ran up the stairs and "blew the doors and windows off." "He didn't say anything, he just shot in the door," Merrill said.

www.sltrib.com...
John and George Donham, who live in an apartment south of Trolley Square, were walking through the east parking lot of the mall when they heard gunshots. They.... saw a man sitting in the passenger side of a dark Chrysler, bleeding from a head wound. He told the Donhams that he had been shot while he was on the second floor main lobby on the north side of the mall.

deseretnews.com...
--Two teenage girls heard the shots ringing out while they were inside the Desert Edge Brewery. After hearing one "really loud bang, people scattered everywhere," said Vera Bendixen. She and her friend, Tricia Temple, heard lots of rapid-fire shots and they ran into the pub's restroom, where they hid until employees told them everyone needed to get out.
Upon leaving the brewery, the girls said they passed two bodies lying on the floor on the second floor of the mall.

ksl,com/index.php?nid=148...&comments=true
post by JamesA: "we're trapped in the backroom of pottery barn kids and we witnessed people being gunned down in the second floor and in the entry way. police are aware we're here. and we just want everyone to know we're okay"

Eyewitness accounts are so unreliable..Sad but true. especially if there is a panic situation.

I wonder if this guy might have been mistaken for the second shooter:
He was above the shooter, holding a stool, and even thought to himself, that he'd better put the stool down, so the cops don't mistake it for a weapon.


shopowner warns others

Eyewitness accounts are so unreliable

But only when they conflict with the official version. When they back the official version, they are reliable.

I'm not too sure as to why something like this would happen. I know there has been a shot thread of "Church" shootings as well. This is the first i've actually heard of a mall shooting. Maybe the gunman was trying to get a message out to his community, maybe he hated society and felt he needed to express himself in the worst possible manner. There is a quote I often use, I once seen it on 'House MD', a show on fox, "The only reason why anybody ever does anything is because they think it's right"! Now this may be true, but people may say otherwise. I can't say too much on this topic really, just that it's a very sad situation to find yourself it, wether you be the victim or victimizer. It gets pretty overwhelming to hear of these random acts of violence. Someone once told me that,'Violence with a purpose can be a powerful tool to the powers that be", something like that. I still question that at times, considering how pointless these acts may seem, there is a purpose in it. I'm not one to believe in fate, I like to believe i'm in control of my life, free will. But when I see things like this and in the situation I find myself in, I sort of believe in fate, I just hope I don't find myself in another situation of this sort, ever again.

--Was there any bullet damage to any place on the second floor, as described by eyewitnesses? Were any victims shot while they were on the second floor, as described by eyewitnesses?

--Can police claim that Talovic's fingerprints were on the weapon? Was a gunshot residue test done on his hands? Do the many witnesses who saw the gunman say it looked anything like Talovic? Did he or did he not have a mullet-style haircut? Why did some witnesses say the shooter was short and stocky, and looked older than an 18yr old?

--Was any 'dark'-colored trenchcoat found at the scene?

--What is the chain of possession of the weapons? Why does it take weeks to do a simple computer search of the registered serial numbers? Where did he get the ammo?

--Where did Talovic learn the technique of leaving a round in the chamber while reloading, according to an eyewitness, thus leaving himself covered in case anybody tried to jump him?

--Why can't the medical examiner release a simple description of what kind of shots killed which victims? Did any die because of pistol ammo? How many of them were hit with birdshot?

--What was the exact nature of that "nearby task force"? How many of the responders were part of this "nearby task force"?

--Why did Ogden police officer Ken Hammond, the off-duty 'here' cop who confronted the gunman, travel 40 miles to celebrate Valentine's Day? Was he a part of the "nearby task force"? Where exactly did the bullets he fired end up?

--What was found in his car or his residence? And how many residences are we talking about? Mom and Dad weren't living together, and there was an early report of another apartment near the shopping center that Talovic stayed at. Why didn't they seize the computer at the mother's residence? Is it because they already knew Talovic didn't use that computer? What did they find at that other residence?

--What about that report from an eyewitness that he saw the gunman earlier that afternoon walking around the mall? It clearly conflicts with the report from his boss that Talolovic was at work till 5pm. Apparently glaring holes in the official version like this don't bother the investigators very much.

--What about Talovic's medical history? Was he on any medication at the time? Is there any truth to reports that Talovic was on the mean end of a serious pedestrian/vehicle accident several months before?

--Were exactly was Talovic in the hour between when he left home and when he showed up at the mall? What about a timeline for Talovic's life since entering high school until the shooting. He had to have been doing something for those years. Are we to believe that he ran home every night from work to be cooped up in that house until the next morning? I am not buying that one for a second.

--A neighbor reported cops at Talovic's house twice in the previous month. What exactly was that all about?

--What did mall security do during the shooting? Why haven't we heard from them? What about all the security cams around and in the mall?

--What was the motive? There is no such thing as a motiveless crime, according to the experts. And don't give me any of that "oh he was depressed, lonely, blah, blah, blah." Give me a real motive.


If the cops were serious about doing an investigation, most of these questions would have been answered by now. The investigators are simply using delaying tactics; when they release a report later on, they know their audience will have moved on to other headlines, and will have forgotten about the issues raised here.



---------------------


Tellingly, the SLC police are tight-lipped about even basic details of the case(article dated 12 days after the shooting):

deseretnews.com/dn/view/0...49,00.html
"Whatever the detectives have learned, they've gone to great lengths to keep quiet. Police have refused to release many basic details of the shooting rampage, including how many shots were fired by both Talovic and officers, the make and model of the guns he used, where they were purchased and what Talovic said to his victims and officers before he died. A series of records requests filed by the Deseret Morning News under the Government Records Access Management Act for 911 tapes, transcripts and incident reports have all been denied."

Your asking for too much here man.. The guy either snapped, or just carried out something he had planned.. Noone ever really knows ones motive in such a situation, they can only speculate.. Some of these questions are farfetched, and ridiculous. Like the chamber while reloading bit, a baby could do that.. WHy was he reported at the mall while at work? When firghtened, people will say things that didn't happen.. Mainly for their fifteen minutes of fame.. I've heard outrageous comments that were totally untrue in other cases, like I said, people will do naything for their fifteen minutes of fame and glorification. "Look at me, i'm on camera, aren't I adorable?" Why do people look so much into these types of things anyway? This is all the media shows, horrific events.. "Breaking news, a shooting" blah blah blah.. The media is pretty heartless.. I'm not trying to discredit what you believe in what happened, or what should be explained. Just don't try and make something this horrible sound like a conspiracy.. It was simply something that happened.. I just hope the victims and victims of the deceased find strength.. They'll need it.