The Nazi's {Shock to the system}

After WW2 the rumors of the so called "horrors" thats supposedly went on in Nazi Germany started brewing, many leaders told Germany to stand up and say it's a load of rubbish, the new government failed to do so and eventually let to now were it's illegal in many countries to even debate the holocaust without reprocusions.

Please when you have time, take a moment to read some of articles:

here

Btw, I am not a Nazi before you try and accuse me, I just think the people in control at the moment are lying about history.

These skin heads you see going around (so called "neo-nazis") and KKK people are just idiots and have no idea about this.

That website seems to attempt to justify what Nazi Germany did, by ignoring what happened and showing a few pictures in support of their claims. There was even one article there denying that Auschwitz was far from an extermination camp and merely a work camp.

Here's an a small piece of an SS doctor's diary:

For the first time, at 3:00 A.M. outside, attended a special action. Dante's Inferno seems to me almost a comedy compared to this. They don't call Auschwitz the camp of annihilation for nothing!

Here you can even see the handwritten journal entry:

www.holocaust-history.org...

[edit on 12-2-2007 by bluesquareapple]

Reading into other stuff on there it says it never happend, not justified it.

What about other aspects like not enough coke available to even cremate 16 people a day and the actual "gas chambers" them selves, they aren't fit for use.

The camp tour guide shows what they think is an extraction bit for letting the "gas" out but if they used that then it would have killed everyone even the camp guards.

Also I don't mean to be frank, but how do you know that diary isn't a forge?

Particularly unpleasant was the gassing of the emaciated women from the women's camp, who were generally known as 'Muslims'.

Quote from From the holocaust site.

A lot of muslims actually fought for the Nazis and were very good and even reached SS elite levels.

In 1945 most of the resistance was by foreigners. Yaslov (Russian POW's) also helped in Praque.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by otester]

Originally posted by otester
Also I don't mean to be frank, but how do you know that diary isn't a forge?

Allow me to be flippant for a moment.

A forge is used for heating up metal so it can be worked, whereas a diary is used to record events. Therefore a diary cannot be a forge.

Simple really!!

That website has four books from the 1930's written by British writers about the situation in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Germany. They're written in a way that is favourable to German policy at the time.

Does this mean that the writers can claim unbiased insight, or are their political views colouring their perceptions ?

In the same period books were written by non Russians which were favourable to Soviet policy.

Could we say that the non Russian authors were unbiased, or were they merely communist propagandists ?

regards

beagle

pip pip !!



[edit on 12-2-2007 by the smoking beagle]

Originally posted by the smoking beagle
A forge is used for heating up metal so it can be worked, whereas a diary is used to record events. Therefore a diary cannot be a forge.

3. to imitate (handwriting, a signature, etc.) fraudulently; fabricate a forgery. - dictionary.com

Orginally posted by the smoking beagle
Does this mean that the writers can claim unbiased insight, or are their political views colouring their perceptions ?

Well if they were German would you say they were biased?

In the same period books were written by non Russians which were favourable to Soviet policy.

Could we say that the non Russian authors were unbiased, or were they merely communist propagandists ?

Well you do have communists all around the world and those British writers weren't nazis, if they were then they would have ended up in internment camps.

Originally posted by otester

Originally posted by the smoking beagle
A forge is used for heating up metal so it can be worked, whereas a diary is used to record events. Therefore a diary cannot be a forge.

3. to imitate (handwriting, a signature, etc.) fraudulently; fabricate a forgery. - dictionary.com

AH HAA! forgery NOT forge....that "ry" at the end makes all the difference!!

cheers for that otester

regards

beagle

pip pip !!

Originally posted by otester
well if they were German would you say they were biased?

The point I was making was, the writer doesn't need to be German to have sympathy with National Socialism, or Russian to have sympathy Soviet Communism.

In the 1930's there were plenty of people of all nationalities who supported both ideologies. It wasn't exclusive to Germans or Russians.

To post these books on the web and claim that they are unbiased is, at best, disingenuous.

The writers sympathies are clear to me.

regards

beagle

pip pip !!

[edit on 13-2-2007 by the smoking beagle]

Just to respond to the comment that if the British authors listed were Nazis sympathisers they would end up in internment camps - those who were interred during WW2 under Defence Regulation 18 were only those considered a serious risk, such as Sir Oswald Mosley. Very few individuals were considered such a risk.

The British tradition when it comes to such crack-pots as I am afraid they can be only described is to ignore them - they usually go away or end up on obscure little web-sites with likeminded freaks and are only taken seriously by those of little brain.

There are instances when they do go for trial because they have raised such public offence but usually this is to do with the anti-semetic nature of their arguments or incitement to violence or unrest. See Dr David Irving and Lady Jane Birdwell. In the UK we put to rest holocaust revisionism in the 90's, it is a joke and authors will find no audience here. It is sad that this argument has been raised in two different threads in the 6 days I have been a member and hope that you will find something more worthwhile to do with your time in future.

Originally posted by otester
Well you do have communists all around the world

You also have supporters of National Socialism "all around the world"

regards

beagle

pip pip !!

Originally posted by otester
After WW2 the rumors of the so called "horrors" thats supposedly went on in Nazi Germany started brewing

you might not be a nazi but you are a holocaust denier. it's your right. How anyone can ignore all the evidence has always been a mystery to me. What I have found is that a lack of education is often an issue. Not just education about World War II but education in general.

Whatever the case, the horrors existed, there were too many survivors and witnesses to these atrocities.

my great-grandfather was assigned to a group of Poles that was to go to Auschwitz after the Soviets "liberated" (we can all agree they did the opposite) Poland, and help "clean up" the place. By clean up i mean, bury some of the dead bodies that haven't been burned.

he told stories of how tehy found skeleton like bodies hanging from chains, piles of children,women,and men in gas chambers, big trenches where Jews and Poles alike were forced to kneel and were shot once in teh head and fell back into the trench. The remaining Jews told him that they were forced to bury the bodies. They found giant furnaces where Jews told them most of the dead were burned. Others told of the harsh scientific studies that were performed on their bodies. The cutting off of scalps and pouring acids into teh brain to check for chemical reactions, sometimes the patient was still alive and experienced such pain unimaginable by you and me. These stories were passed on to my mother, and then to me. As for some stories being false, sure they could be and a lot are probably exaggerated. Auschwitz on the other hand, I am almost positively sure was truely an extermination camp of Jews, Gypsies, and Polish rebels. I only wish my great-grandfather had written a book about it, though quite a bloody story, so that future generations will remember the harshness of war and hatred.


As for the extermination of 6 million Jews, I don't care whether it was 2 million or 10 million, anyone who kills just to see a people suffer deserves to be killed himself/herself and suffer in hell for all eternity.

Originally posted by otester
those British writers weren't nazis, if they were then they would have ended up in internment camps.

A good point otester, lets look at these British writers.

It makes interesting reading!

This is what the website you posted has to say about Pitt Rivers...

The Czech Conspiracy: a Phase in the World-War Plot. George Henry Lane-Fox Pitt-Rivers. This book is a Captain of the Royal Dragoons' 1938 account of the situation in Czechoslovakia and the Sudetenland, addressing the questions of who wanted war; why; who would profit by it; and how was England concerned? This is the exposé which might have triggered popular resistance in England to British involvement in the War - if only more Englishmen and -women had read it!

Who was Mr very long name Pitt-Rivers anway?

Well, according to this site he was a member of the British Eugenics Society. An organisation keen on cleansing defects from humanity. Ring any bells yet ??

More interesting is this on the same page

Member of Council of Eugenic Society for twenty years; according to his biography in Who Was Who, he was "held political prisoner by the Home Secretary 1940-42"; acc to Malcom Muggeridge: "The house where the unit was stationed belonged to G.H.L. Fox Pitt Rivers who had been interned under Regulation 18b for his pro Hitler attitudes, and in his library there was an elegantly bound presentation copy of Mein Kampf... [Pitt Rivers was] very rich ... [his wife was] an actress ... Mary Hinton" see Lady Forster q.v., (from Chronicles of Wasted Time, Malcolm Muggeridge, p. 391)

No hint of his politcal bias there ??

Didn't end up in an internment camp then??

This is what the website says about Dr.A P Laurie...

The Case for Germany: A Study of Modern Germany. Dr. Arthur Pillans Laurie. This rare 1939 treatise gives the view of National-Socialist Germany that the author, a Scottish scholar, developed during his time inside Hitler's Third Reich. Far from being the sort of hateful diatribe that was the common British judgement in those days, this book gives an insightful overview of National Socialism and of the domestic and foreign-political state of Germany less than 100 days before the outbreak of World War Two

Interestingly this book has a preface by a Barry Domville.

It is a great pleasure to me to introduce the public to Dr. Laurie's valuable book on modern Germany.....He is one of the small group who founded the Association known as "The Link", ...........
He writes of the National Socialist movement with knowledge and great sympathy.
The particular value of this book lies in the fact that it is written by a foreigner, who cannot be accused of patriotic excess in his interpretation of the great work done by Herr Hitler and his associates. I recommend this volume with confidence to all people who are genuinely impressed with the desire to understand one of the greatest - and most bloodless - revolutions in history.

No hint of bias there??

Who is Barry Domville anyway? Read these and find out

Barry Domville

More Domville

"The Link"

So Barry Domville visited a Nurenberg Rally, was interned for pro Nazi views in 1940 and his organistion "the Link" ,which he ran with A P Laurie, was closed down.

Makes you think, eh?

regards

beagle

pip pip !!

[edit on 13-2-2007 by the smoking beagle]

You have voted the smoking beagle for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

way to go man, good hunting!

Sorry for the short reply but I do believe you deserve Kudos for your rebuttal

WOW... didnt see that one coming

Cheers for that Arkangel4time

"aww shucks, it was nuthin"


regards

beagle

pipi pip !!

If the holocaust is 100% then why aren't governments giving us answers, same with 9/11, 7/7 etc.

Some of those people even they were assholes (KKK types) they can still make a valid point.

AH HAA! forgery NOT forge....that "ry" at the end makes all the difference!!

I typed "forge" in dictionary and thats what it spewed out. Anyways, this isn't a spelling bee.

you might not be a nazi but you are a holocaust denier. it's your right. How anyone can ignore all the evidence has always been a mystery to me. What I have found is that a lack of education is often an issue. Not just education about World War II but education in general.

Not 100% denier yet, still kinda on the fence, I want to find out what really happend 100% just like with 9/11 and 7/7 etc.

Whatever the case, the horrors existed, there were too many survivors and witnesses to these atrocities.

American patholgists said that rumors were starting to get passed around about this and they told the prisoners to stfu about it 'cas it was bs, obviously they got away with it and now this has happend.

Is it not possible that the Zionists leaders told fellow prisoners to tell this lie so they could get into palestine, which was their previous goal?

Sorry, but the grand-father of one of my friends personnally liberated Auschwitz, so this website is PURE BS. I trust more someone I know that a website... sorry. There was huge deposits of rotten bodies, well you know the rest.

And yes, there was thousands of eugenics adepts in all the western world. Hell, nazi supporters almost overthrown the US government in the 30s.

[edit on 14-2-2007 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Sorry, but the grand-father of one of my friends personnally liberated Auschwitz, so this website is PURE BS. I trust more someone I know that a website... sorry.

What nationality was his grand-father? American, English?

What nationality was his grand-father? American, English?

Canadian. Well I don't know if it was Auschwitz... but it was one of the camps, and he was with the first group to open it, it smelled very bad, that was something that hitted him, the smell. He remembered it very vividly.

[edit on 14-2-2007 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by Vitchilo

What nationality was his grand-father? American, English?

Canadian. Well I don't know if it was Auschwitz... but it was one of the camps, and he was with the first group to open it, it smelled very bad, that was something that hitted him, the smell. He remembered it very vividly.

[edit on 14-2-2007 by Vitchilo]

Yea, I assumed as much. The Americans, Canadians, English, etc did not liberate Auschwitz, the Soviets did.

It makes sense to see a lot of skinny malnutritioned people, many dead as well when the country you have invaded has had a central breakdown of all industry, factories, including agricultural production.

Supply lines cut for weeks, even months on end. Take into account the war was going on its 6th year and the complete collapse of the eastern front in late 43-early 45. The least of your worries would be to feed your prison population when you could barely feed your own soldiers and civilians.

[edit on 14-2-2007 by Jack_Deth]

Yea, I assumed as much. The Americans, Canadians, English, etc did not liberate Auschwitz, the Soviets did.

It makes sense to see a lot of skinny malnutritioned people, many dead as well when the country you have invaded has had a central breakdown of all industry, factories, including agricultural production.

Supply lines cut for weeks, even months on end. Take into account the war was going on its 6th year and the complete collapse of the eastern front in late 43-early 45. The least of your worries would be to feed your prison population when you could barely feed your own soldiers and civilians.

Yeah I know. But I think that the nazis really killed the gays, jews, ect... but not in the number they said. I'm sure at 100% that it wasn't 6 millions, and if it wouldn't have been that, Israël wouldn't be there, and a lot of problems wouldn't exists today. That's why I argue about the numbers.

Not that Israël is the cause of all problems, but a lot of middle-east problems.

[edit on 14-2-2007 by Vitchilo]