Were the Allies the good guys?

With the policies of the Allies let's debate if their actions were good or bad, I believe allowing the Soviet Union to survive Germany was a bad thing...mainly because of the obvious after effects of the Cold War and the cost in lives due to Stalin et al.

Spurious reasoning. The SU was an ally during WW2. Also without the SU WW2 may have actually been won by the Germans. Google the losses the SU took during WW2 compared to the rest of the nations involved. You'll be surprised, they don't teach that in this part of the world.

I bet they also dont teach that the US made it possible for the SU to continue to fight with tons upon tons of war materials and supplies. The SU did take on more German divisions than any of the allies, of course it was the largest front, I would also argue the most brutal. Everyone of the allies played an important part in winning the war, the Soviets were the straw that broke the camels back, the US supported all with its massive industrial capacity. Everyone did their part and the outcome reflects that.

The Allies (read americans) will arm anyone who will fight their enemy, despite who that potential ally may be/what their motivation is.
point and case: Project Gladio
watch these vids, they are an eye opener.

Originally posted by FreiMaurer
With the policies of the Allies let's debate if their actions were good or bad, I believe allowing the Soviet Union to survive Germany was a bad thing...mainly because of the obvious after effects of the Cold War and the cost in lives due to Stalin et al.

The "allies" weren't any kind of good guys. The Japanese had been attempting to negotiate peace for some time but USA refused prefering to test its A-Bomb on Japanese civilians first. The only nation to ever drop an A bomb on another is USA.
The bombing of Dresden was also another horiffic and needless atrocity. Nobody could ever claim to be any kind of good guy if they carpet bomb and totally destroy cities in Europe and Japan, and those bombings were not any kind of necessary or strategic bombings, they were just murder pure and simple.
Of course the murder didn't end there either. Britain and USA were involved in other conflicts since WW2 that no supposed "good" nation would want to be involved in. A study of what the British did in Kenya in the 50's would open your eyes as to how barbaric they really are.

yes of course they allies were evil and the axis was just misunderstood. b.s. it was war and what you civilians forget is when you send ( and it's you civilians who do the sending ) an army out to defend YOU. people are going to get killed. what do you expect to happen clog dancing. armies kill people and destroy thing it's what you civilian pay us to do. then after we save your sorry ass the whining starts .oh oh we didn't want you to hurt people couldn't you be more nice when you fight . yeah next time we'll use Nerf bombs or better yet you can go out to the front and see if you can fight politely. civilians a military word for what goes in the latrine.

Originally posted by wcssar
yes of course they allies were evil and the axis was just misunderstood. b.s. it was war and what you civilians forget is when you send ( and it's you civilians who do the sending ) an army out to defend YOU. people are going to get killed. what do you expect to happen clog dancing. armies kill people and destroy thing it's what you civilian pay us to do. then after we save your sorry ass the whining starts .oh oh we didn't want you to hurt people couldn't you be more nice when you fight . yeah next time we'll use Nerf bombs or better yet you can go out to the front and see if you can fight politely. civilians a military word for what goes in the latrine.

That is a VERY brainwashed way of looking at things. Not everythiong is black and white, good guys versus bad guys. It is NOT civilains who send out armies, it is the corrupt politicains in power, the very same politicains who start to war in the first place. And murder is murder, calling it "War" doesn't mean that a murder is ok.

And who ever said the axis was misunderstood, you are simply posting rubbish. And it is clear you know very little of history, just what popular opinion has told you. Did you know that Hitler was funded by western bankers, the same people who wanted to declare war against him were those who funded him. The people were "suckered" again. WW2 was stage managed.

You didn't save my ass from anything. You are just deluded and a pawn of the elite super-rich who decide when and where they want a war. What has Iraq got to do with saving americans??? it is all a hoax. Iraq war is about more big businesses making huge profits.

As for fighting bare-fisted fighting, I can do that, but so wtf, you are another keyboard warrior. If you want to be a trained slave who will jump when his sergeant yells jump then good for you.
Unlike what you seem to believe, indiscriminate murder is not an honourable thing whether it is wartime or not.

Originally posted by wcssar
yes of course they allies were evil and the axis was just misunderstood. b.s. it was war and what you civilians forget is when you send ( and it's you civilians who do the sending ) an army out to defend YOU. people are going to get killed. what do you expect to happen clog dancing. armies kill people and destroy thing it's what you civilian pay us to do. then after we save your sorry ass the whining starts .oh oh we didn't want you to hurt people couldn't you be more nice when you fight . yeah next time we'll use Nerf bombs or better yet you can go out to the front and see if you can fight politely. civilians a military word for what goes in the latrine.

stands and applauds.....

I dont know where this tree hugging, allies were bad, genocidal axis powers were the good guys crap comes from but I suggest all you who believe this crap go back to school or pick up a history book. STOP LISTENING TO LEFTIST PROPAGANDA REVIONISIONALIST HISTORY! you will truly be left without a friggin clue!

Japan negotiating peace? your F***ing kidding me right?! WTF are they teaching in europe?!?!?!??!??!

Let me tell you something about the japanese...they were fanatical!!!!!! they were going to fight until the very last man, woman, or child standing!!!!!!!! Get this through your thick damn heads. NO ONE except for the US would declare war on them!!!!! The russians were horrified of the Japanese after those island skirmishes. In fact, the russians didnt declare war on the japanese until they KNEW FOR A FACT that the US was going to drop the atom bomb! And yes the russians knew all about it.

Damn.... :shk:

I think the world needs to be done a favor and have europe turned into its destined islamic caliphate early. :shk:

ARE THERE ANY MEN LEFT IN EUROPE?!

[edit on 19-2-2007 by XphilesPhan]

well, typically war isn't about good guys against bad guys
however, nazism is one of those things where you can honestly say they were the bad guys
the italians weren't as bad
and the rest of the axis weren't really "bad guys" but were guilty of associating with the nazis

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

STOP LISTENING TO LEFTIST PROPAGANDA REVIONISIONALIST HISTORY!

Japan negotiating peace? your F***ing kidding me right?! WTF are they teaching in europe?!?!?!??!??!

[edit on 19-2-2007 by XphilesPhan]

Yoyu truly no very little of the facts. and the fact that you think you know is laughable. Did you ever actually research anything, where did you learn history.
And who ever said the axis were good??? That is just more nonsense. And as for leftist propaganda, you really are a mixed up cretin. Don't you even know that the leftist revolutionaries were joined with THE ALLIES.

The axis were RIGHT WING Fascists. Nazi Germany and Mussolinis Italy were right wing.
The leftist revolutionaries were the Communists in Russia, part of the allies.
And it is for certain you don't even know who funded the Leftist revolutionaries. Bankers from the west funded Trotsky. Try educating yourself as to who was really behind the wars.
You have been totally brainwahsed and very easily lead.
And yes it have been proven a long long time ago that Japan was trying to negotiate peace before the dropping of the bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Just because nobody told you doesn't mean it ain't so

fogonazos.blogspot.com...
www.lewrockwell.com...

Not everything is in black and white. The allies were definitely not the good guys as they likes to be portrayed, and that doesn't mean I am saying the axis were the good guys. They were all bastards.

[edit on 19-2-2007 by golddragnet]

C'mon dude, it was a war, so neither the Allies or the Axis is good or bad. Well, in my opinion

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
stands and applauds.....

I dont know where this tree hugging, allies were bad, genocidal axis powers were the good guys crap comes from but I suggest all you who believe this crap go back to school or pick up a history book. STOP LISTENING TO LEFTIST PROPAGANDA REVIONISIONALIST HISTORY! you will truly be left without a friggin clue!

Japan negotiating peace? your F***ing kidding me right?! WTF are they teaching in europe?!?!?!??!??!

Let me tell you something about the japanese...they were fanatical!!!!!! they were going to fight until the very last man, woman, or child standing!!!!!!!! Get this through your thick damn heads. NO ONE except for the US would declare war on them!!!!! The russians were horrified of the Japanese after those island skirmishes. In fact, the russians didnt declare war on the japanese until they KNEW FOR A FACT that the US was going to drop the atom bomb! And yes the russians knew all about it.

Damn.... :shk:

I think the world needs to be done a favor and have europe turned into its destined islamic caliphate early. :shk:

ARE THERE ANY MEN LEFT IN EUROPE?!

[edit on 19-2-2007 by XphilesPhan]

Tree-hugging? leftist? And pardon me, but, "Revisionalist"? Where the heck did you get that word from? And word for he wise - throwing five or six exclamation points at the end of a sentence doesn't stress your point, it simply screams to the world that you're bad at punctuation.

Though you are right - Japan was the one who refused the peace terms offered by America, Britain, and China, which prompted the USSR to declare war on Japan on August 8, 1945 - two days after the Hiroshima bomb.

But you're quite wrong about the United States being hte only one to declare war. China had been fighting Japan for a full decade before the Japanese attacked the United States holding - memos between the Japanese higher-ups had actually declared war on the United States, Great britain, and the Netherlands as early as September 1941 - the attacks in December just made it "official". The United States didn't step up to the plate for the good of mankind - certainly it didn't give a damn about Japanese invasion and brutality throughut East Asia for the ten years prior to Pearl Harbor. The United States stepped up because Japan kicked the US in the cajones.

In war, nobody's a "good guy".

Ok, politics aside, the Soviets and Brits and Americans were allied because it served a common interest and nothing else. America and Russia werent exactly buddies before the war, as a matter of fact since the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917. It wasnt about who was evil or not, I'm sure the Russians thought no better of its western allies than it thought of the Nazis and vice versa. It was a common enemy. You know the saying, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Well, when one considers that Stalin is responsible for many millions more deaths than Hitler, a conservative estimate is 20 million, it makes one wonder.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by golddragnet
The Japanese had been attempting to negotiate peace for some time but USA refused prefering to test its A-Bomb on Japanese civilians first.

Sources please....Japan wasn't no where near ready to surrender...I don't know where you get this information.

Originally posted by golddragnet
The "allies" weren't any kind of good guys. The Japanese had been attempting to negotiate peace for some time but USA refused prefering to test its A-Bomb on Japanese civilians first. The only nation to ever drop an A bomb on another is USA.

Wrong. Some Japanese senior Politicians wanted peace, but the military said no. End of as far as that's concerned in Japan.

Originally posted by golddragnet
The bombing of Dresden was also another horiffic and needless atrocity. Nobody could ever claim to be any kind of good guy if they carpet bomb and totally destroy cities in Europe and Japan, and those bombings were not any kind of necessary or strategic bombings, they were just murder pure and simple.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Dresden was a very strategic target. I'll give you a chance to look it up first, though, before making you look silly.

Originally posted by golddragnet
Of course the murder didn't end there either. Britain and USA were involved in other conflicts since WW2 that no supposed "good" nation would want to be involved in. A study of what the British did in Kenya in the 50's would open your eyes as to how barbaric they really are.

Well considering that much of the fighting was carried out by Loyalist African forces against the rebels, can't really see how we were that Brutal. Only 4-5000 rebel's died during the campaign. Please elaborate so I know of what you speak.

Dresden was pretty brutal and so were the A-bombs in Japan. But Germany were the ones that started the bloody war, and destroyed half of London as well!

And I haven't looked into what people are saying about Japan seeking peace/war, but to declare war on a nation as big as the USA isn't a good idea anyway.

So you could say that the ones who started it were the bad guys, or you could say the ones that felt the need for extreme retaliation were the bad guys.

Or you could just say that once the war was in full swing everyone was a bad guy!

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, when one considers that Stalin is responsible for many millions more deaths than Hitler, a conservative estimate is 20 million, it makes one wonder.

but stalin had a lot more time on his hands
do you honestly think hitler would have stopped at 6 million if he had won the war?
considering the population of people he'd consider to be "impure"
we'd be pushing into the hundreds of millions if he had his way....

and you guys can post all your anti allied ideas here, why? because the Axis did not win!

Madness, like I said, 20 million is a conservative estimate in regards to Stalin. It's believed by most that he is responsible for the deaths of closer to 80 million people... Yet, we hardly ever hear about this... I suspect part of it is because Stalin and the Russians allied with the U.S, but that's just a suspicion.

In regards to Hitler, it is hard to tell how many people Hitler would have killed had he been able to continue. Many argue that the 6 million figure is greatly inflated in regards to Hitler.. I personally don't know. I know what the history books state, but that seems to be increasingly an unreliable source of information.



[edit on 20-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]