Mother Slays Young Daughters

Just about every time some young mom throws her kids off a bridge, or drowns them in the bathtub, or hacks their little arms off, etc. they are on SSRIs.

[edit on 6-2-2007 by starviego]

[edit on 6-2-2007 by starviego]

Mentally ill or not, this lady deserves punishment. I can hardly believe that people are taking her side on this. Sure she may be sick mentally and may need help, but I can't wait for this story to progress to find out what her problem is. Right now we are all just speculating here. For all we know this lady truly could be a monster.

I'm also in favor for some kind of license for reproduction. Its one of the most labor intensive, long, difficult and stressful tasks a human being can go through to raise even one child successfully WITH two parents, and many more mothers are finding themselves alone when the father just up and leaves.

If you need a license to do something as mundane as fishing, you should definitely need a license to be put in charge of someone elses life.

But I'm sure certain people, particularly heavily religious people, would bitch and moan about it, as if they know 'God's' will, even though there is no proof one even exists nor what its desires might be, if it even had any, because a book of ancient myths and fairytales says its the truth.

There is a healthy medium between too much freedom to do and have whatever you want at the expense of the innocent and the practice of eugenics and governmental control, and I think we need to find that point. So crap like this happens less or not at all.

Of course how the heck could you keep people from having babies without a license? They'd still do it.

It makes me sick that these women get off so easily when the crime is so horrendous.

They're a dime a dozen these days, it seems, and every one of them gives a different twist on the same two nonsense stories ('God told me to do it', or 'I didn't realize I was doing it') and ends up doing a few years in a pyschiatric facility, when by all rights they should be hung.

:shk:

What happens when some psychotic man kills his children? He's considered evil and irredeemable and we kill him, or lock him in a hole for life. But if mom does it, she gets a nice private room, a bunch of fancy drugs and buttloads of counseling at our expense. That's sexism as far as I'm concerned, and I don't see how it can be considered a good thing.

It's too late for the drugs and the counseling - she's already killed the kids! If the drugs and the counseling came BEFORE the murders, they might have value, but afterwards? What's the point, to reintegrate these people back into society? I don't want them back in society! I want them permanently OUT of society, by any means necessary! Why the Hell are we fighting to keep the worst of the worst inside the fold?

We've got plenty of freakin' people, we don't need to be scraping the bottom of the barrel by struggling, at great expense, to keep murderers, rapists, child abusers, and similar scum in society. We don't owe them anything. Hang them and be done with it.

(I'd prefer exile, it's more humane, but there's nowhere to put these people nowadays. It used to be a city state could just throw people over the wall, and that was that. No more...)

Forget sterlizing crazy people - the cure is worse than the disease IMO. Just don't pussyfoot around the obvious when someone does do something like this - it's the worst kind of murder (infanticide) - and should warrant the worst kind of punishment.





Send her back to the manufacturer, she's clearly a lemon.

Wow the story is so sad.

Was there no father around? No one around to help her, sounds like she was totally overwhelmed.

What a tragedy all round.


As for those people who think that some type of government permission would be required before you can reproduce. Think of the pandora's box that would open.

"Oh I am sorry madam, your ethnicity is politically incorrect, you can't possibly have kids"

The whole thing could bring new meaning to social engineering.

Was there no father around? No one around to help her, sounds like she was totally overwhelmed.

According to the original article, the girls had different fathers. One of the fathers was in prison, and neither had much contact with the girls - all according to the article (don't know if it's true or not).

Originally posted by starviego
Just about every time some young mom throws her kids off a bridge, or drowns them in the bathtub, or hacks their little arms off, etc. they are on SSRIs.

[edit on 6-2-2007 by starviego]

[edit on 6-2-2007 by starviego]

That's just simply not true. I've never read one story like this where the mother was on SSRI's. Also, SSRI's for the great, vast majority of adults actually work. It's only for the teenagers that it poses a risk of suicide. It is uninformed statements like this one that keep people from getting the help they need.

Besides that, it said she'd never been to a counselor or such. How would she have gotten SSRI's?

Ahh Jeez. What an awful story. She killed her children while they watched her.........
I'm already on record in many threads the way I feel about this type of thing. She should be executed, and immediately. Is she insane? Who cares. She KILLED children. Oh man. She is a danger to society, and frankly she should be removed permanently. I don't want one dollar of my hard earned tax money used to shelter this beast.
This is a perfect example of a person who should be executed immediately.
Those poor children. Not to mention the pets.

May god bless those poor lost souls.

I say it again. KILL HER!

Lombozo,

My sentiments exactly!!

Mr. Spawn,

I think people get worked up because it involved innocent children. Are you a parent? I think parents of smaller children sees things a little differently, mainly from the standpoint that this woman should be put away permanently.

www.freep.com.../20070207/NEWS04/702070355/1006

In a 911 call, her sister... spoke of a rant Kukla went on Saturday, saying she heard voices, was hypnotized, kidnapped her kids and ate people.

If true, this indicates that Kukla was undergoing a psychotic episode at the time. Hardships or hard drinking by themselves could not have caused this. Now maybe if she was binging on meth... but there is no indication of that as yet.

Besides external issues, it's likely she had an undiagnosed mental illness that could range from severe depression to schizophrenia, experts say.

I doubt this. If she was schizophrenic it would manifested itself long before this.

She also was coping with the loss of her mother, who had bipolar disorder. Her mother died last summer.

Now we're getting close. Want to bet Kukla was "being treated for depression" by the same group that was dosing her mother?

She also was coping with the loss of her mother, who had bipolar disorder. Her mother died last summer.

Now we're getting close. Want to bet Kukla was "being treated for depression" by the same group that was dosing her mother?


She's 30. Schizophrenia usually manifests in the late teens and early 20's. She may well have had this for quite some time. It said she had not sought treatment, most wouldn't) so she couldn't have been being treated for depression. Besides that, people with simple depression don't kill their children, they usually kill themselves first, especially women.

Starviego, give it up. She may have had depression, but that would be the least of her worries, she most likely had something far worse going on. You're just plailn wrong and you don't know what you're talking about. I was a psychotherapist for 15 years, and have battled my own major depression for years. Gee, you think maybe I know a thing or two about mental illness?
As I said before, your uninformed and biased comments could lead some people not to seek help who need it. SSRI's aren't the evil you think they are, for the vast majority of people they work just fine and are a lifesaver for the depressive. So please, quit with the disinformation and trolling.

Did anyone check into her financial status, as far as debt is concerned. Living in jail means she isn't living on the streets.

The homicidal maniac/SSRI link is by now well-established:



--10-20-86 Rod Mathews. 14, Canton, Mass beat classmate to death with baseball bat. (Ritalin)

--5-20-88 Laurie Dann 2nd grade class room in Winnetka, Illinois 1 dead, 5 wounded (Anafranil)

--9-26-88 James Wilson, 19 attack on Greenwood. S.C. elementrary school 2 dead, 9 wounded extensive psych, drug history

--1-17-89 Patrick Purdy, 25, schoolyard in Sacremento, 6 dead,. 30 wounded (Thorazne and Amitriptyline)

--6-11-93 Victor Brancaccio, 16 Fla, Murdered 81yr old (Zoloft)

--9-95 Jarred Viktor, 16, Escondido, California; stabbed his grandmother 61 times five days after starting (Paxil)

--10-18-95 Kristina Fetters, a 14-year old from Des Moines, Iowa, who stabbed her favorite great aunt to death in a rage (Prozac)

--10-17-95 16-year-old Brian Pruitt, 16, fatally stabbed his grandparents. History of psychiatric treatment and had been prescribed psychiatric drugs

--11-10-95: Chris Shanahan, 15; Rigby, Idaho; Out of the blue killed a woman. Shanahan walked up and shot her in the back of the head with his rifle during a robbery attempt. (Paxil)

--2-19-96: Timmy Becton, 10, grabbed his three-year-old niece as a shield and aimed a shotgun at a sheriff's deputy who accompanied a truant officer to his Florida home. (Prozac)

--4-96 Kurt Danysh, 18, Pennsylvania, killed his father by firing a shotgun blast into his head (Prozac)

--11-96 Julie Marie Meade, 16, from Maryland who was shot to death by the police when they found her waving a gun at them. (Prozac)

--1997 Sam Menzies 16, Jackson Township, New Jersey, raped and strangled another boy, 11 Under psychiatric "care" (Paxil)

--5-23-97 Christopher Vasquez, 15, stabbed a man to death in Central Park, NY (Zoloft)

--5-25-97 Jeremy Strohmeyer,18, raped and murdered a 7-year-old girl in the bathroom of a casino, Stateline, Nevada. (Dexedrine)

--10-1-97 Luke Woodham, 16 Pearl HS, Pearl, MS, 3 dead, 7 wounded (Prozac(?))

--12-1-97 Michael Carneal,14, Heath HS, Pudacah, KY 3 Dead, 5 wounded (Ritalin(?))

--2-98 Jeff Franklin attacks family with ax, sledge, butcher knife Huntsville, Alabama. 1 dead. 3 wounded (Ritalin & Prozac(?))

--3-24-98 Mitchell Johnson, 12, and Andrew Golden, 10 Westside Middle School, Jonesboro, AS 4 dead, 10 dead Golden may have been taking (Ritalin). Johnstone had been seeing a pscyhiatrist, probably on drugs

--5-21-98 Kip Kinkel, Oregon, 4 dead, 22 wounded (Ritalin and Prozac)

--4-17-99 Shawn Cooper,15, Notus Junior-Senior High School, Notus, Idaho On four different drugs, including (Ritalin)

--4-20-99 COLUMBINE Eric Harris on (Zoloft, Luvox, and maybe Ritalin) Unk if Dylan Klebold was drugged

--4-29-99 Todd Cameron Smith, W.R. MyersHS, Taber, Alberta, 1 dead, 1 wounded (Dexedrine)

--5-20-99 Thomas Solomon Jr., at age 15, brought a rifle to his high school in Conyers, Ga., in 1999 and shot six students. (Ritalin), but was being treated for depression so he could also have been on a SSRI

--12-6-97 Seth Trickey, 13, Fort Gibson, OK was on numerous prescription medications and undergoing psychological counseling when he opened fire on his middle-school classmates in, wounding five.

--3-7-00 Elizabeth Bush. 14, Williamsport, Pennsylvania was on "antidepressants" when she shot and wounded another student at Bishop Neumann High School in Williamsport, Pa. in 2001.

--3-22-01 Jason Hoffman,18, Granite Hills High School, San Diego, CA 4 wounded (Effexor and Celexa)

--4-15-01 Cory Baadsgaard,16, Wahluke High School, Mattawa, Washington state, held his class hostage with a rifle. "Corey still has no memory of that day" (Paxil, Effexor)

--11-28-01 Christopher Pittman, 12 killed his grandparents (Paxil, Zoloft)

--1-14-01 Lenny Gall, 16,, Granite, Utah Killed his mother with an axe (Paxil, Zyprexa)

--1-25-02 Tavares Eugene Williams, 18, Gainesville, FL beat his guardian to death with baseball bat (Prozac)

--11-2-02 Dustin Lynch, 15, Montville Township, Ohio stabbed 17yr old friend to death (Paxil)

--1-3-03 Ryan Furlough, 18, Maryland, fatally poisoned his 17-year-old friend (Effexor)

--6-11-03 Jason Molacek, 19, Maple Grove, Minnesota, shot his mother to death. "Molacek took his medication faithfully"

--9-2-03 Sarah Johnson, 16, Bellevue, Idaho murdered her parents (Zoloft)

--7-4-04 Cody Posey, 14, Chavez Canyon, New Mexico whacked his parents and sister (Zoloft)

--12-6-04 Rody Phillips, 14, Fort Belvior, Texas Phillips stabbed a 7-Eleven clerk one month after being put on (Effexor)

--5-21-05 Jeff Weise, Red LakeHS, MN, 10 dead, 5 wounded (Prozac)

--7-12-05 Spc. Brandon Bare, 19, Fort Lewis, Tacoma, WA stabbed his young wife 71 times He was taking "a new prescription."

--10-30-05 William Freund, 19, Aliso Viejo, California went on a shooting rampage, killing two of his neighbors and then turning the gun on himself (Geodon)

--11-20-05 Dominicik Sergio Maldonado, 19 Tacoma mall shooter, 4 wounded A previous offender, had history of court-ordered 'counseling' Quote: “I got help finally but paid a price.”

Originally posted by forestlady

Originally posted by starviego
Just about every time some young mom throws her kids off a bridge, or drowns them in the bathtub, or hacks their little arms off, etc. they are on SSRIs.

[edit on 6-2-2007 by starviego]

That's just simply not true. I've never read one story like this where the mother was on SSRI's. Also, SSRI's for the great, vast majority of adults actually work. It's only for the teenagers that it poses a risk of suicide. It is uninformed statements like this one that keep people from getting the help they need.

Besides that, it said she'd never been to a counselor or such. How would she have gotten SSRI's?

Starviego, read my post again. See where it says teenagers are at risk for suicide? I should have added homicide as well, but was interrupted while typing it. Anyway, ALL of the ones you listed are guess what???
Hey, they're all TEENAGERS! Like I said, it rarely happens with adults.
My mother taught me never to play with trolls, so I'm not going to answer any more posts from you, you're just wasting my time and aren't hearing me anyway.

Most criminals are those who were not raised to be healthy and productive members of our society. This is mostly the fault of the parents (but there are other factors that I will discuss). I've actually given my friends advice on how to raise a healthy child and have been proven right.

The younger the child is when he/she experiences trauma, the deeper the roots are ingrained into the mind of the person as they develop... making it more difficult to resolve the issue.

When you add into this mix the fact that our gov't has been poisoning us for decades with flouride in the water, pesticides on our food, unknown chemicals in our medications (and who knows what else), it's no surprise that some people can go off the hook and commit unspeakable crimes.

With all of the outside influences I mentioned above, who knows what type of scenario can trigger someone to completely lose their mind (even if it's temporary) and commit a horrendous crime.

Just a few things to think about.

Coupla points to consider:

1) According to the DSM4 (psychiatrists "bible") there is NO definition for "sane". I'm sure we could all find ourselves on one of those pages (and if our government has it's way, we will.) If you have the symptoms of being alive and feeling anything and some psychiatrist finds out about it, you can be pigeonholed into some category in the DSM4. If there's not a pill for it, there's a support group or a 12-step program for it.

2) We have already had a eugenics program in this country in the early part of the century in which "defectives" and "undesirables" WERE sterilized. Starting off with the mentally retarded and physically deformed, our government stepped up the pace to include unwed mothers, poor women, etc. We had to stop our eugenics program when we started criticizing Hitler for having one.

3) I work with the "criminally insane" and most of the time you couldn't tell them from the average joe on the street. When they get off their medication, it's a different story. Most are pleasant, sociable, agreeable, intelligent, etc. but they have been deemed "insane" and are serving lengthy sentences for heinous crimes committed while off their medications. Personally, I'm glad they're off the street as most of them need a structured environment and someone to make them take their medications but they're not "evil". One guy (currently off his meds) is going around with his finger pointed like a gun and "shooting" at the air. He insists the "invisibles" are trying to kill him like they did his parents. He still doesn't remember that he's the one that killed his parents. Sad.

4) An alternative, conspiracy theory explanation befitting a discussion on ATS is that she's the product of some kind of mind control. Many people claim this and everyone poofs them off as "insane". What if it's true? What if there is a mind control program aimed at ordinary citizens who seem as normal as anybody else you know and then one day they just snap? What possible explanation can there be for no warning signs (or intervention if there were signs)?

5) I understand Susan Smith (said some black guy carjacked her car with the kids in it and gave a national plea to "give me back my children"), killer of her young children, is now married to the prison chaplain. Would you want to raise a family with this woman?

6) The mentally ill can be functional in society (we released 2 today) but they're never going to want to get any help for themselves or loved ones if there continues to be the social stigma attached to mental illness and the lynch mob reactions toward the mentally ill.

7) Years ago I worked with a nurse who was a multiple personality (horrendous abuse in childhood) and every one of her personalities was a patient advocate and the best nurse I've ever seen. Watching movies with her was a little odd because we'd be halfway through it and she's switch into another personality and I'd have to start the movie over so THAT one could watch it. Her (undiagnosed) parents were truly evil and they should be strung up, tarred and feathered, drawn and quartered, etc. but the "mentally ill" one was the bravest woman I've ever known.

BTW, schizophrenia doesn't ALWAYS manifest in the teens and early 20's. Most of the time it does but sometimes can manifest in EARLY childhood or even in the 40' or 50's. My ex had a schizophrenic mother, brother and maternal grandmother. He was fine. Until we had several stressors in our lives that he just couldn't handle and he snapped. In one year we had 2 house fires, a robbery, hurricane damage, and he was diagnosed with a respiratory condition that caused the military to medically discharge him 3 years from retirement. It was a rough year but I signed on for better or worse and took the whole load on my shoulders because I can deal with stress better than he can. One day I came home from shopping and he had beat up our daughter for eating tater tots (!), was making no sense in his explanation of events (word salad) and just got in the car and left. I waited for him to "snap back" but he never did and now he's just nutso living at home with his crazy mother and brother. He holds down a low stress job and has never been hospitalized for his outbursts so he doesn't feel he needs medication. Schizophrenics can be functional but I recommend carrying a stun gun and anesthedarts if you live with one because you never know when they're going to "go off" and become violent.

Thank you to whoever it was that posted the additional article.

Has anyone even considered drugs and I don't mean the prescribed kind? It's already stated she was an alcoholic, isn't it possible she could be a druggie? The lady was a manager at McDonald's, so she was working (or had been working). Yet the home had no utilities on? What was her money buying? Plus what about assistance programs, they are out there and they do help families in need, especially single women. I'm not blaming the family in any way, but what were they thinking by allowing the children to stay in a home with no utilities, they should have stepped in. I would do that much if my nieces needed my help.

Mentally ill or not, this lady chased down her children, stabbed them in the throat, while they stared at her. Their mother, who they loved regardless of all the neglect, who was supposed to love and protect them, killed them. Can you imagine what these little girls were thinking when they died? Maybe some of you need to focus on that for a minute while you are sitting there defending the poor mentally ill mother. She deserves nothing less then death.

Originally posted by starviego

The homicidal maniac/SSRI link is by now well-established:



--10-20-86 Rod Mathews. 14, Canton, Mass beat classmate to death with baseball bat. (Ritalin)

--5-20-88 Laurie Dann 2nd grade class room in Winnetka, Illinois 1 dead, 5 wounded (Anafranil)

--9-26-88 James Wilson, 19 attack on Greenwood. S.C. elementrary school 2 dead, 9 wounded extensive psych, drug history

ect...

Yeah. those were all TEENAGERS. So if SSRI's do make people suicidal/homicidal it's only teens.

I doubt this. If she was schizophrenic it would manifested itself long before this.

Do you know nothing about mental illness? Unless it's early onset, which doesn't seem to be the case,schizophrenia happens very suddenly. And yes, it can vary in age, I just stated what was most common. But, it also may be that she is a drug addict, and that would be the easier answer.. What she did was horrible but if she has a mental illness, she is not a monster in the sense that she had no idea what she was doing. If it was drugs then yes, she is a monster who could've prevented this, but I still do not wish death on anyone.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by lizziex3]

but I still do not wish death on anyone

Lizziex3, I respect that opinion, you must have a very kind heart.

Though my opinion still remains the same.

[edit on 2/8/2007 by dirty_underground]