Predestination or randomness in life

First off, I have tried to figure out where to post this and did not see an accurate fit anywhere, so if a mod sees a better place please move it if you are so inclined.

At first it may seem a religious issue, but I wasn't thinking of Predestination from a religious view, so here goes.

At the risk of getting into a logic loop here, I want to see if a discussion can narrow down my thoughts.

Do you think that people die totally randomly or do you think that everyone is predestined to a specific timeline on this earth regardless of our actions?

I was watching a show called "Dead like me" and the basic premise is that reapers are given a time and place of peoples demise and they are supposed to remove thier souls prior to death so they don't suffer. When people do die, there are these mischevious creatures that cause an accident or some action that leads to death.

Yes I KNOW it's fiction, but it just started this train of thought with me, so humor me

I know what I am leaning towards but I want others views before I slant this into an "I am right or wrong " discussion.

Interesting post. A question I myself have often wondered. Though thinking more logically, I know logic has no place in this world but..., I am more inclined to say it just happens randomly. Due to so many factors and choices in our lives. I'll think about this more though. Would like to hear what others say as well.

Originally posted by dirty_underground
but..., I am more inclined to say it just happens randomly. Due to so many factors and choices in our lives. I'll think about this more though. Would like to hear what others say as well.

My first thought as well, but then the possible logic loop..

What if the factors and choices in our lives were predestined and the "willpower" that you may claim was a personal decision was already layed out as the decision you would make.

Thanks for the reply, I too am hoping others chime in

When I was born it was predestined that I would go to high school. While in high school I got to choose what classes I took and what I would major in.

Predestiny and free will are two perfectly compatible subjects.

I don't see how you can approach or discuss predestiny of death without the religous angle. The premise of predestiny asserts it to be of a 'higher power'.

Originally posted by nextguyinline
I don't see how you can approach or discuss predestiny of death without the religous angle.

By approaching it from a spiritual angle. You can be a spiritual person and still have nothing to do with religion. I am a spiritual Anarchist. Free the chains from your mind and the chains on your soul will melt away.

Yes, thankyou for the clarity.

I am glad I can say I have not seen this question posted on ATS before. Good post man.

I personally believe that all life is predetermind... that I have an outcome already decided before I was born. I have had dejavu many times, and I think that it may be a symptom of predestination.

I also believe that all great people are born, not created.. Alexander the Great was born a great man.. Ceasar was born to be a great general and great emporer.. just as I believe all evil people are born evil.. kids that fight, beat, cuss out parents for no reason, kids that take on traits of serial killers like killing small animals.. I believe they are evil, born that way from their evil souls. IMO any ways. If only there was a way to know eh?

Right now I would have to say that I believe it is fairly random.

I base this on an interesting experience I had when my son was two. He had never been in day care so his behaviour wasn't influenced by other kids or day care staff. The only TV he had been allowed to watch was in the form of video tapes of Barney and Blues Clues so he couldn't have heard anything about any sort of afterlife. I was completely non-religious at the time, so he didn't get any clues from me.

Out of the blue this two year old starts telling me about a past life, including what his name was, how he died, etc. Needless to say, after that I began to believe in reincarnation.

The next part I am not so sure about. As near as I could tell from my son's description, there were things he was supposed to accomplish but he didn't get the chance because he died very young. This is what leads me to believe it is pretty random.

Although I am very spiritual / religious now, I do keep an open mind so I will be looking forward to seeing what others have to say about this.

edited spelling as usual

[edit on 2/7/07 by wellwhatnow]

Originally posted by mrwupy
When I was born it was predestined that I would go to high school. While in high school I got to choose what classes I took and what I would major in.

Predestiny and free will are two perfectly compatible subjects.

Fair enough, but how can you be so sure you were not predestined to take those classes? In other words when we make a decision in life is it really a free will or was it planned that you would decide "A or B"

Originally posted by rockpuck
I am glad I can say I have not seen this question posted on ATS before. Good post man. I personally believe that all life is predetermind... that I have an outcome already decided before I was born. I have had dejavu many times, and I think that it may be a symptom of predestination.

Thanks man...I was not sure I expressed myself right. The deja vu thing was what sort of got me wondering if I had repeated a set of actions before of was just imagining it.

Originally posted by wellwhatnow
The next part I am not so sure about. As near as I could tell from my son's description, there were things he was supposed to accomplish but he didn't get the chance because he died very young. This is what leads me to believe it is pretty random.

lol well after thinking about your particular post for a while, I might agree that it seems random if he truly did not have time to accomplish what he was supposed to in the previous life.

I am generally pretty firm in my convictions but actually your post uncovered a hole in my theory of being predestined. I need to think some more.

Thanks all for the replies so far.

when ones soul needs to let us say, this is a simple example, needs to learn how to act in a stress-situation.

It will create such a situation.

Now when you look at it in one way, you can say it is predestination, the soul carries the structure to form such a situation.

When you look at it in another way, you can say it is natural for it to happen.

In fact this soul holds this in itself, so one day or another this is supposed to be happening?. It's not predestination, it is the chosen life path.

hm

Originally posted by mrwupy
When I was born it was predestined that I would go to high school. While in high school I got to choose what classes I took and what I would major in.

Predestiny and free will are two perfectly compatible subjects.

I think "predestiny" is a pretty subjective thing. Who is to say that you were predestined to go to high school? Just because your parents had ambitions for you at birth? There are lots of people whose parents want them to be lawyers/doctors, etc. Just because someone sets a goal for you, or you set a goal for yourself, that doesn't automatically make it destiny. Your parents had to actively seek to enroll you in school. If it was destiny, it would have happened of it's own accord. Who is to say that if you did well on a test, if it was just luck, or if it was due to studying entirely. Is luck even a form of destiny, or is it simply statistical randomness?

So basically the world seems random to me, just because there is no way to prove or disprove fate/destiny/etc. There is very little that just happens passively except for accidents like getting hit by a car that swerves off the road and hits you on the sidewalk, or getting shot by someone holding up a bank. But even then, who is to say it isn't just a "wrong place at the wrong time" scenario?

I had a strange experience yesterday, coincidence? predestined or random?

I used to work at a company in the south of London, I left there in 2003 and moved to Brighton, which is on the south coast of England. I had lost contact with pretty much all my ex-colleagues. Yesterday morning I was on the Facebook website, looking up a few schoolmates. I then found an ex-colleaugue in a schoolmate's profile. I then did a search for some friends from Brighton, and found, bizarrely that this guy was also a "friend" of people i know it Brighton, hmm small world I thought.

Last night I was in a bar in West London and who should I see? The ex-colleague. I was quite shocked by it! After chatting with him, I also found out that we have both applied for the same position at another company.

I think it is "predestined" in a way, there were way too many coincidences to think otherwise. I have genuinely been quite shaken by it, very obvious and "in your face".

i love this type of question. however my mind does go back and forth on it. as of now i say.....random.

random in the sense, that we have freewill and choice.
my thoughts, i have to admit, were very influenced by a book a read about two years ago, that left a lasting impression.

i believe our choices carry a certain amout of gravity to them. that would effect all other possible outcomes and choices. and that, while it may be very likley you would choose this or that, or that the choice may have been forced, it is still up to you to accept and follow a option presented in front of you.

you may have a predetermined life span, set by the cosmos. but, there is still no evidence that everything in between was not of freewill and choice. just because there would be a predetermined life span, there still is the question of predetermined cause of death. whether you die by heart attack, falling off a cliff, or cancer the events leading up to that death would be of free choice. but, if the cause of death was predetermined, then it would cause (no pun intended) me to look at this differently.

as you can see, i believe this is a very complexed question.
i will be enjoying this thread.
great post!

Originally posted by Arkangel4time
Do you think that people die totally randomly or do you think that everyone is predestined to a specific timeline on this earth regardless of our actions?

I think a little of both. I think free will actually proves fate. That we all make decisions based on our own experience and that (I think) givin the same circumstances, we would keep making the same decisions. It all leads somewhere, you know?

Like the future words of this sentence are all dependent on previous words and couldn't really lead anywhere else because of its unique design.

Does that make sense?

Originally posted by JSR
i love this type of question. however my mind does go back and forth on it. as of now i say.....random.

random in the sense, that we have freewill and choice.
my thoughts, i have to admit, were very influenced by a book a read about two years ago, that left a lasting impression.

i believe our choices carry a certain amout of gravity to them. that would effect all other possible outcomes and choices. and that, while it may be very likley you would choose this or that, or that the choice may have been forced, it is still up to you to accept and follow a option presented in front of you.

you may have a predetermined life span, set by the cosmos. but, there is still no evidence that everything in between was not of freewill and choice. just because there would be a predetermined life span, there still is the question of predetermined cause of death. whether you die by heart attack, falling off a cliff, or cancer the events leading up to that death would be of free choice. but, if the cause of death was predetermined, then it would cause (no pun intended) me to look at this differently.

as you can see, i believe this is a very complexed question.
i will be enjoying this thread.
great post!

Thanks for the "great post" comment. My mind also is going back and forth on this matter, as several posters have proposed valid propositions to me.

I was wondering JSR what is the book and author you read that influenced you? I would love to check it out

Originally posted by Arkangel4time
I was wondering JSR what is the book and author you read that influenced you? I would love to check it out

"The Self-Aware Universe"
by: Amit Goswami, Ph.D.

it, at times is a very technical read. but in certain parts of the book, he litteraly paints such a vivid picture of consciousness....its just a good read.

I admit to being ambivalent on the question of destiny or fate having a hand in everyday things, but the idea of "it was just their time to die" really suits some situations.

Like a local woman who was in a traffic accident, hurt but not too seriously, then killed on the way to the hospital when the ambulance was crushed by a log truck while they waited at the light......

Or a family that was killed when a tree fell on their car during a storm. This just shortly after they had escaped from their burning house, which had practically exploded after being struck by lightning.

While instances like these do not prove anything, they make one wonder.

I have also had some weird deja vu experiences that felt like the 'order' of things had gotten mixed up......like a video when the voice and picture are out of sync.....looks they would have to be preset to get out of sync.

In my opinion everything that happens in the universe was predetermined at the big bang (I'm athiest btw). If something explodes (like the big bang) mathematics can predict where everything will end up (regardless of how "random" things are at the quantum level). Therefore, even human interaction is predetermined, with free-will being an illusion. That being said, you should't give up in life just because it's all predetermined. You have no way of telling what's going to happen so you should just do your best, whatever decision you make was always going to be the decision you would make.

from what I know so far, its a bit of both.