1,000 turkeys in Suffolk UK died from bird flu

The annoying thing for me is i always buy free-range meat!! But i was in a rush to get some food, for our weekly walk in the Forrest, and the butchers was closed... so i had to resort to something quick and easy. The supermarket was open so i went for the rubbish Bernard Matthews turkey ham... Oh well, guess that will teach me.

Its ironic really... we are always being told that its the free-range farmers that are most at risk from bird flu. Guess the birds are having their revenge on the people who put them in cages and cut off their beaks...

Bootiful

(sorry you will only get that joke if you live in UK )

I now realise that its ok to eat infected meat that is well cooked... and that the chances of my Turkey Ham being infected are very slim... but i prefer not to take the risk (if i had cooked it myself i wouldnt mind) So it is now sitting in my Bin

Sorry... News just in...
It is the Asian strain of H5N1

news.bbc.co.uk...

Is there some form of organized civilian dead bird watchers club?wgat about small animals known to also have had it in them too?-weasels etc....
I can imagine that would be prudent to organise thoroughly if this pattern is now set for the rest of the uninfected world,if there is any....
I think it is wise ti educate oneself about it if any amount of your day is spent in the outdoors.
Even park duck ponds may be a concern and a bellweather.
The feces thing is very scary since i live in a country where there is lots of migratory geese ducks and swans who stop in for breakast at local parks and zoos.
All kinds of kiddies feeding the birds and adults too.
Duckscrement covers the lawns and walks sometimes inches deep in spots..
If Feces is the real culprit, we are in deep sh&t if it gets into the bird pop at large.
This is no joke, and i imagine the pidgeon poo problem will be also magnified in the cities and parks where they hang out.
Dont you think its time to plan for a more proactive and vigorous effort at keeping things cleaner in the parks this year?
A petting zoo could be a dangerous place in the right circumstances.
We think of this as an industry problem more than a personal one,yet,if dogs and cats in indonesia have it in them, and the duck screments are at places where we traditionally walk our pets etc......MY DRIFT???
What if your cat ate an infected birds body?
should we be thinking ahead?

You make some good point Bergle...

However... i don't think you have anything to worry about from just a walk in the park. From my understanding transmission from human to birds occurs, in some parts of Asia, because of the very close proximity with chickens on a permanent basis. I am no expert though but i believe it has something to do with breathing in the dust from dried excrement and/or breathing the same air in confined spaces.

Petting farms could be a problem but i think you are safe feeding the ducks in the park.

You raise a good point with cats too. Our plan is to bring our 2 cats indoors and re-introduce the litter trays, they had as kittens, should the outbreak become more widespread.

Most of the human infections happen to poultry workers.

I may be wrong though... this is just the bits and pieces i have picked up from reading on the net today

You might want to check out...

www.birdlife.org...

Are going to suck if this keeps up. I hope we can find a cure for this stuff soon.

STAND BACK EVERYONE!

Yeah thats right, im just home from work at a poultry farm. Though i dont think you should all worry too much yet as bird flu cant be passed through the internet.

In all seriousness folks. DO NOT stop buying turkey, chicken or whatever. Their is NO NEED! Cooking kills the virus, so as long as you dont get food poisoning every time you cook a chicken, then you obviously kniow how to cook a chicken enough to kill the flu virus. Only extra precaution i would take would be to wash everything a bit more after prepweration.

p.s


TO the poster worried about the pre packed turkey.

DON'T it will have been cooked and sealed in a protected enviroment. Not to mention that this is only 1 farm were talking about here and the birds didnt even enter the food chain.

Some people can be so paranoid, it begs belief. God forbid anything catastrophic actually happen to our little planet, all the sheeple panicking will cause more problems than anything else...

You threw away some Turkey ham because you were scared? Jeebus...

Originally posted by manta
STAND BACK EVERYONE!

Yeah thats right, im just home from work at a poultry farm. Though i dont think you should all worry too much yet as bird flu cant be passed through the internet.

In all seriousness folks. DO NOT stop buying turkey, chicken or whatever. Their is NO NEED! Cooking kills the virus, so as long as you dont get food poisoning every time you cook a chicken, then you obviously kniow how to cook a chicken enough to kill the flu virus. Only extra precaution i would take would be to wash everything a bit more after prepweration.

p.s


TO the poster worried about the pre packed turkey.

DON'T it will have been cooked and sealed in a protected enviroment. Not to mention that this is only 1 farm were talking about here and the birds didnt even enter the food chain.

is that anything like the bio-protected enviroment that the turkeys in suffolk were housed in? The one it was so safe that they couldn't catch bird flu in?

After all we are talking about a company that takes 48hours to notify defra about an outbreak.

You just have to look at what has happened across the world with this damn virus to see that people just don't take it serious enough.

Defra policy should be to evacuate the area, and send a couple of tornado's over the top to clean up the problem. Not to truck infected animals 200+ miles to a "specalist facility". How long before this bites us in the backside?

[edit on 4-2-2007 by 2ciewan]

[edit on 4-2-2007 by 2ciewan]

Originally posted by 2ciewan

You just have to look at what has happened across the world with this damn virus to see that people just don't take it serious enough.

Thats because the only people it kills are those that literally sleep with their chickens. To be honest, if those people don't get Bird flu, they probably have some other nasty disease as a result and at the very least fleas. For the western world, the only threat is to livestock and that itself is apparently minimal.

Originally posted by 2ciewan
Defra policy should be to evacuate the area, and send a couple of tornado's over the top to clean up the problem. Not to truck infected animals 200+ miles to a "specalist facility". How long before this bites us in the backside?

A bit of an over-reaction, don't you think?

And exactly how will sending a couple of Tornado's help, apart from disturbing the local wildlife (ie Birds) and sending them scattering all over.

There is no risk associated with the transport of dead birds. Considering that only 2000 odd died of flu and the other 160,000 have been killed by man. What exactly do you see as a problem with the transport of the birds to Shropshire for destruction? Would you rather they be burnt in open pyres in Suffolk?

As for the human risk, last years outbreak of Bird flu in Norfolk resulted in one human infection (incidentally, a farm worker, not a Joe Bloggs). The only symptoms he showed were a mild eye infection.

The media need to sensationalise this for ratings purposes.

It makes money if they scream "HUMAN BIRD FLU PANDEMIC IMMINENT" rather than the more truthful headline of "SOME TURKEYS DIE OF FLU, NO RISK TO PEOPLE".

Until we see a case of human to human transmission of the virus, there is bugger all risk. Considering that even those infected in Asia lived with the birds and even then only SOME family members got ill and then only SOME of them died, it's hardly the Human killing mega-plague they want you too believe.

You have a much bigger chance of being hit by a space rock than bird flu, but you don't see the headlines saying

"MAN HIT BY ASTEROID..SCIENTISTS WARN OF IMPENDING DOOOOOOM"

I don't disagree that the media is hyping this, thats how they make money.

But look what this has done to other countries, and look at the potential.

We had a great track record when it came to handleing foot and mouth.

I agree perhaps the bombing the chickens is a bit over the top, but i think in terms of bio-security that transporting them that distance is a little silly also.

Im more concerned that they did not tell defra for 48hours, alot could happen in that time.

The other thing that really bothers me, is something i picked up on last week when traveling. I go through Gatwick airport, on a regular basis, and last week, not this week, the defra bird flu signs had gone up again. Somewhere we are not getting the whole truth on this one.

Originally posted by 2ciewan

Im more concerned that they did not tell defra for 48hours, alot could happen in that time.

i will just pick up on that one quote but will address a few of your points.

The reason they were not notified for 48 hours was (probably) because nobody could have suspected it was bird flu. Im not sure on the numbers but i believe on the first day the farmer noticed something up it was *only* something in the reigon of 80 dead birds. 80 may seem alot, it is and it isnt. Their was no reason to suspect this was bird flu so the farm managed would ahve probably just discussed it with some managment and kept an eye on it.

By the time the 2nd day was up i believe the toll was starting to really rack up and thats probably when defra were called in. Its not uncommon for comparitively large numbers of birds to die ovrnight from something that is not bird flu.

Although i work for a different company and cant comment on the company in question with regards to its bio security, i would put forward that only 1 of the sheds became infected which would indicated that the employees were following a good level of bio security which prevented the virus spreading from shed to shed as they went about their jobs.

OK, lets talk about bio security -

71 birds died last Tuesday. But the outbreak was not reported to government vets until Thursday evening, after another 1,000 died.

It took a further two days before European Union scientists managed to conduct tests and were able to confirm that the virus at the farm was H5N1.

(Defra) took until yesterday evening to impose the obligatory exclusion zone because legal wrangles meant the required forms had not been signed in time.

A Defra official also admitted that some of the farm's 1,000 workers had been walking around the site, between the 22 sheds used to house the birds, for two days before their movements were restricted. "They were walking around like nothing's happened," said a local man. "They didn't seem to realise how serious this is."

How does your bio-security sound now?

Link

Originally posted by 2ciewan

A Defra official also admitted that some of the farm's 1,000 workers had been walking around the site, between the 22 sheds used to house the birds, for two days before their movements were restricted. "They were walking around like nothing's happened," said a local man. "They didn't seem to realise how serious this is."

How does your bio-security sound now?

Link

Remember this is coming from a local man who wanted his 5 minutes of fame. He doesnt know what was going on any more than any other observer. People still had to walk arround and get on with their job, im sure that bio security had already been stepped up because of the unusual numbers of dead birds in one shed. You cant just stop and drop everythug because it MIGHT be bird flu, especually when their is no reason to suspect it is in the first place.

Originally posted by manta

Originally posted by 2ciewan

A Defra official also admitted that some of the farm's 1,000 workers had been walking around the site, between the 22 sheds used to house the birds, for two days before their movements were restricted. "They were walking around like nothing's happened," said a local man. "They didn't seem to realise how serious this is."

How does your bio-security sound now?

Link

Remember this is coming from a local man who wanted his 5 minutes of fame. He doesnt know what was going on any more than any other observer. People still had to walk arround and get on with their job, im sure that bio security had already been stepped up because of the unusual numbers of dead birds in one shed. You cant just stop and drop everythug because it MIGHT be bird flu, especually when their is no reason to suspect it is in the first place.

This is where i think we will have to agree to disagree.

You can stop everything when you suspect bird flu, same way that you can evacuate a building when the smoke alarms go off. The owners of the farm have a responsablity to public saftey and the saftey of staff working there. With the seriousness of this strain
a cavalier attitude to money over saftey is going to lead to problems.

The quote from the local man, yes sure he wanted his 1 min of fame, but his observations are more than likely very vaild.

We are talking about a very serious problem, not just a couple of chickens with a cold.

Just to update on new info,

There saying the reason it took so long was that it was believed that the bird had ecolie.. that was what the farms Vet in the area had diagnosed it as, it was only once lots more started dying that they realised it was a bigger problem,



I still don't understand why there moving the birds so far away???

To give a better idea to those who don't know the distance its about a 4hour drive im led to believe,

So some of these will be in these trucks moving across the country tomorrow in the day, Kinda worrying, what would happen if this crashed???

scary thought,

Asala, I shouldn't worry yourself over the transport of the dead birds.

Firstly, the virus needs a host, or it too dies. I do not know the specifics, but I doubt they will live for long (a day at most) inside of a dead bird.

In the event of a crash, or anything else, I would imagine that these trucks have escorts and correct bio-containment will be implemented, but as usual, the risk to humans is negligable.

Seeing as one must be in contact with a live bird for some time to contract it, I doubt a pile of dead birds would pose any risk to humans should there be a spill, which would be quickly dealt with in anycase.

Everyone just needs to calm down, not buy into the hype and just remain sensible.

It's funny how on one hand people claim a conspiracy to cover up the truth with this outbreak, but then on the other, panic because of what they read in the paper. I find those two facts hard to reconcile, seeing as the Media is deliberately over-hyping the situation and there has been no cover up.

If there was, would we be discussing it now? Not likely.

Originally posted by stumason
It's funny how on one hand people claim a conspiracy to cover up the truth with this outbreak, but then on the other, panic because of what they read in the paper. I find those two facts hard to reconcile, seeing as the Media is deliberately over-hyping the situation and there has been no cover up.

If there was, would we be discussing it now? Not likely.

Atlast a voice of reason!

Watching News24 over the past few days ,you would think that half the population had contracted the virus. I saw a piece earlier about the birds being moved 200 miles to be disposed of, and made it sound like if so much as feather got loose it would mean the instant mutation of the virus into a huma to human variant.

Then on the otehr hand everyone is being told it is safe to eat poultry and their is no risk. Its time that they stopped overdoing it and just put out the facts. How many people will be so confused by the mixed info that they just refuse to eat any poultry products?

Well there sure is more chickens on the shelfs in our local store than normal,


I really do hope that people look in to the facts and carry on eating the meat as per normal,

livleyhoods are at stake,

Some people can be so paranoid, it begs belief. God forbid anything catastrophic actually happen to our little planet, all the sheeple panicking will cause more problems than anything else...

You threw away some Turkey ham because you were scared? Jeebus...

I do realise that the experts say it is safe to eat infected meat (that is cooked)

But i value my family a bit more than a £2 packet of Turkey Ham!!!!

So if, its ok with you, i choose to excersise some caution in this case.

Didnt the "experts" also claim that thalidomide was a safe drug to take in the 1960's???