Who here will pledge...

Originally posted by Lexion
I stand by my conviction that anyone scared of a national ID has something to hide, or is quite paranoid.

It's not the issue of having something to hide or paranoia of the big-brother state, but the lies, double-talk and political spin being propagated to instill fear into a populace that makes my blood boil.

The cornerstone of the British judicial system is that if you are called to account, you are deemed innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury of your peers.

Originally posted by Lexion
As a law abiding veteran of the Army, I have all the freedoms and
liberties that I want.

And as a law abiding non-veteran of the military, I have most of the freedoms and liberties granted to me by the Constitution. As per the Constitution, the Federal Government is forbidden to "track" and "spy" on the American populous. I'm not quite as willing as you are to give that freedom up.

Originally posted by Lexion
And, by calling me ignorant.
Sir, you are sadly mistaken.

As a veteran, one that swore an oath to uphold and protect the constitution, if you are willing to allow the federal government the right to "track" or "spy" on it's citizens, against the Constitution, just because "you have nothing to hide", then yes, you are ignorant. The National ID card is in fact a means of tracking the American People.

Originally posted by Lexion
I stand by my conviction that anyone scared of a national ID has something to hide, or is quite paranoid.

You, Sir, are wrong. Anyone that demands their rights go untouched by the Federal Government is not "paranoid" nor do they "have something to hide". They are exercising the rights that you, as a Veteran, fought to protect.

Originally posted by Lexion
PS By calling me ignorant, you have violated the T & C of ATS.
Have a pleasant day.

1st - I did not "call you ignorant", not until this thread. I did imply it on the first post, though.
2nd - If the shoe fits, wear it.

[edit on 2/1/2007 by Infoholic]

Info,
Seems we have different views of this issue, and we both feel strongly in
our beliefs.

I'm quite willing to agree to disagree. I know how I am, and if I persue
this debate, I'm liable to insert my foot in my mouth.

I respect your views, and you are correct in at least one assertion. I raised
my right hand to defend yours and everyones right to freedom of expression, no matter that I disagree.

Anyway, can we shake hands and call it even ?

Lex

Originally posted by Lexion
Info,
Seems we have different views of this issue, and we both feel strongly in
our beliefs.

I'm quite willing to agree to disagree. I know how I am, and if I persue
this debate, I'm liable to insert my foot in my mouth.

I respect your views, and you are correct in at least one assertion. I raised
my right hand to defend yours and everyones right to freedom of expression, no matter that I disagree.

Anyway, can we shake hands and call it even ?

Lex

Lex,

Thus far though our "debate" you have voiced your "opinion", of which you are entitled to, due in part of yourself and others like you defending those freedoms. However, that is all you have done, voice your opinion.

What I have done is state proof, by fact of what is written into the Law (H.R. 1268). The fact that the National ID card will not be an "innocent" means of identification for the United States citizens is right there in black and white.

A misinterpretation of what the bill allows, is of no fault of your own. They purposely write the bills for that specific reason, as not to make an uproar in the general populous. If everyone knew what their representatives (most of them anyway) were trying to do, they would quickly lose their seats in Congress, not to mention the rest of the government body.

I applaud you for standing your ground on what you feel and/or believe. We need more people in the United States with the initiative to "not take it lying down".

I apologize for calling you ignorant. I admit, I need to find different avenues to convey my "bullheadedness". Not believing the proof when it is given to you (as you being used generally), especially in black and white, is a trait that is "taught" to the general populous of the world, and I say that because I believe the world governments are all in "this" conspiracy together.

I've said it before and I'll say it until I'm blue in the face:

Spoken by Infoholic
If you were in a pool of water, drowning, I will be the first there to throw you a life preserver, whether or not it pisses you off."

Consider the hands shaken.