Grand Patroness of World Freemasonry

I would like to talk about the Grand Patroness of World Freemasonry.

According to sources allover the internet, The current GP is Queen Elizabeth, The British Queen.

If it is true that Freemasonry and The Illuminati ae directly linked, Wouldnt this make our Queen one of the heads of the Illuminati?. It seems strange to me, I would have thought the head of the Illuminati would be a unseen individual.

I wonder if Grand Patroness of World Freemasonry is an inherited title through Royal bloodlines, Meaning it may be just the same as an honorary title, with no actual duties to perform. I find that hard to swallow due to the nature of the title.

I have read lists of names which claim important and historical people to be part of freemasonry and orders of freemasonry. For example... Tony Blair is said to be a Knight of Malta which would indicate he is a mason. Some say Knight of Malta is an honorary title that was bestowed upon him and that he is infact not a freemason. Other names on these list were people like Jospeh Stalin, Saddam Hussein, George W. Bush, Many US Presidents, Actors, Military generals, Religious leaders & others....

If the NWO is infact playing out a scenario in which they take over the world, It would make sense to me that people like Hitler, Stalin & Hussein would have been freemasons, Meaning that wars and conflicts can arise with the victors being decided pre-hand.

All in all I wonder if some of these people are no more than people with titles, Or are they infact instrumental in the running of the NWO?

My two-cents-worth RE a couple of points:

- Freemasonry is not organisationally linked to the Illuminati. I personally am yet to see ANY evidence that the Illuminati still exist, apart from copycats/wannabes who create solemn websites telling us all how important, powerful, secret and enlightened they are.

- Knight of Malta does NOT equal Freemason. They are two distinct groups.

- "Patroness" does not equal "Head of". It is not a leadership role.

- None of these guys have ever been initiate into Freemasonry: Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, George W. Bush

- Hitler was not a Freemason. He did, in fact, persecute Freemasons during the Holocaust, orchestrating the murder of more than 80,000 of them. The blue Forget-Me-Not was adopted as an underground sign of Masonic membership in Germany because of the persecution.

The soverigns in england are included in masonry because, when this first started, the sovereign was a brutal thug supported by a military junta, and nothing happened without his approval. If people wanted to met in largish numbers in private, they needed the permission of the king. Heck, they had to petittion to get actual Charters, the best way to do that was to allways give the King 'free membership' or an honour of a sort.

Hi talib

I've just found this thread after posting on the other one.

There is no such position as "Grand Patroness of World Freemasonry". Freemasonry is comprised of many Grand Lodges, all autonomous but interlinked through a shared history and development. Like different countries, they may have ambassadors and create strategic alliances but there is no 'global president' to whom all Heads of State report.

I would review your source for this information and see if you can find out where it came from. If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.

Originally posted by talib
For example... Tony Blair is said to be a Knight of Malta which would indicate he is a mason. Some say Knight of Malta is an honorary title that was bestowed upon him and that he is infact not a freemason.

Tony Blair is not a freemason. He has not been initiated into Craft masonry in a recognized masonic lodge, and to the best of my knowledge has no masonic contact with any other form of masonry.

Consequently, he cannot be a member of the United Religious, Military and Masonic Orders of the Temple and St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta, known in England as the Knights Templar, a masonic side order.

He may possibly be a member of the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of St. John of Jerusalem of Malta and of Rhodes, a Catholic order based in Rome. This is not a masonic order and I suspect some people have not been doing their research properly and are confusing the two.

Other names on these list were people like Jospeh Stalin, Saddam Hussein, George W. Bush...

None of the above people are freemasons. If they were, somebody somewhere would have come up with which lodge they were initiated into, which jurisdiction they are under and when. But nobody has and of course nobody ever will.

Queen Elizabeth II is indeed the Grand Patroness of the United Grand Lodge of England, which is the self claimed 'Mother Grand Lodge' of World Freemasonry, in that it claims for itself to be the final arbitrator of who is and who isn't a Freemason around the world.

The point is that Freemasons all take an oath not to reveal, among other things, who is and who isn't a Freemason.

Non-Masons may not contact a Grand Lodge and ask for membership information.

Freemasonry is a Secret Society, a secret society that is heavily involved in politics. For this reason it is absolutely imperitive that all nations must enact a mandatory declaration requirement of membership - like what existed in England up until the late 1960's.

But remember this: Freemasons are liars.

How could you POSSIBLY KNOW if Tony Blair is or isn't a Freemason?

You can't - even if you were a Freemason, unless you were a member of his lodge. And you wouldn't reveal the information, under penalty of a painful death, even if you did.

Even Freemasons don't have access to their Grand Lodge membership list.

That is the reason for all the secret handshakes, signs, and expressions.

80,000 Freemasons did not perish in the Holocaust. Not a single 'regular' German Freemason was arrested by the Nazi's. Not one. German Freemasonry supported the Nazi's rise to power, the German Nobility and General Staff was traditionally Masonic, who employed Hitler as an agitator in post war Germany. The Kaiser's family were Freemasons. The Thule Society which bankrolled the Nazi's were Freemasons. German Freemasonry offered Masonic membership to Herman Goering and it is stronly suspected that Rudolf Hess was a Freemason. Hess flew to Scotland to meet with the Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England the Duke of Kent to try to negotiate a seperate truce. The Grand Master of German Freemasonry sent letters of congratulation to Hitler on his election. Hitlers personal hero was Frederick the Great, the founder of Prussian Freemasonry. Hitler kept Freemason Helen Blavatsky's books at his bedside table. The Nazi's were the natural culmination of 200 years of German Masonic Occultism. There are many stories in Masonic Literature of American Mason soliders exchanging secret Masonic signs with captured German Werhmact soliders who were Masons.

But go ahead and quote from the clod who wrote Freemasons for Dummies, a book that contains not a single reference or note. As the saying goes; 'Freemasonry imposes on the ignorant'.

Originally posted by Viva Christo Rey
Queen Elizabeth II is indeed the Grand Patroness of the United Grand Lodge of England, which is the self claimed 'Mother Grand Lodge' of World Freemasonry, in that it claims for itself to be the final arbitrator of who is and who isn't a Freemason around the world.

Absolutely none of the above is true. There is no such thing as a "Grand Patroness of the United Grand Lodge of England". Nor does the UGLE claim to be the "final arbitrator of who is and who isn't a Freemason around the world", as its authority ends at the UK's geographical boundaries.

Originally posted by Viva Christo Rey
80,000 Freemasons did not perish in the Holocaust. Not a single 'regular' German Freemason was arrested by the Nazi's. Not one. German Freemasonry supported the Nazi's rise to power, the German Nobility and General Staff was traditionally Masonic, who employed Hitler as an agitator in post war Germany. The Kaiser's family were Freemasons. The Thule Society which bankrolled the Nazi's were Freemasons. German Freemasonry offered Masonic membership to Herman Goering and it is stronly suspected that Rudolf Hess was a Freemason. Hess flew to Scotland to meet with the Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England the Duke of Kent to try to negotiate a seperate truce. The Grand Master of German Freemasonry sent letters of congratulation to Hitler on his election. Hitlers personal hero was Frederick the Great, the founder of Prussian Freemasonry. Hitler kept Freemason Helen Blavatsky's books at his bedside table. The Nazi's were the natural culmination of 200 years of German Masonic Occultism. There are many stories in Masonic Literature of American Mason soliders exchanging secret Masonic signs with captured German Werhmact soliders who were Masons.

But go ahead and quote from the clod who wrote Freemasons for Dummies, a book that contains not a single reference or note. As the saying goes; 'Freemasonry imposes on the ignorant'.

All the above is horse manure. The poster either doesn't anything about Nazi Germany, or is simply lying. Anyone who believes the Nazis were friendly to Masonry simply needs to read their official handbook on the subject by SS Commander Dietrich Schwarz, or William Shrirer's award winning book on the history of Nazi Germany.

Also, a great article on the Nazi anti-Masonic movement:

www.bessel.org...

[edit on 31-1-2007 by Masonic Light]

... and while we're at it ...

Originally posted by Viva Christo Rey
How could you POSSIBLY KNOW if Tony Blair is or isn't a Freemason?

1. Because the records of memberships of the Craft is available to freemasons, and other interested parties. If TB was a freemason we would all know about it. I personally have a list of all Grand Officers in England and many Provincial Grand Officers. He's not on it.

2. Because he hasn't registered his membership with the appropriate committee at the House of Commons, which he HAS to do. This is highly foolish as, if he was a freemason, he could easily be caught and the political fallout would be huge.

3. The press in the UK love salatious masonic stories. They would have ferreted him out by now and run ridiculous articles to make money for themselves.

4. Chris Mullen MP has it in for freemasons - he would have made a huge stink if TB was on the square.

You can't - even if you were a Freemason, unless you were a member of his lodge.

See above. And if I was a member of his lodge I would most certainly know about him as I would meet him regularly, and his name would appear on my membership list. To think otherwise shows a deep lack of understanding of the mechanics of how freemasonry actually works ( as opposed to how you would like it to work).

And you wouldn't reveal the information, under penalty of a painful death, even if you did.

What painful death? What are you on about?

Even Freemasons don't have access to their Grand Lodge membership list.

Wrong. See above.

That is the reason for all the secret handshakes, signs, and expressions.

.
No it isn't. Your ignorance about freemasonry is spectacular and wide-reaching. Use your own critical thinking and common sense, do your own research and don't believe all you read on conspiracy websites from peddlers of books and CDs or Paranoiacs.

heres a thought.

from what i understand, women are not admitted into freemasonry, they would be grouped in the Rebekkah lodge, or the Order of the Eastern Star.

second, any talk of the grand patroness of masonry is probaly a reference to Ischtar, Mary, Aphrodite, Astarte, or any other example of the Universal Virgin, the bearer of the Sun God. she has many names. this would be my vote for patroness.

Originally posted by Viva Christo Rey
80,000 Freemasons did not perish in the Holocaust. Not a single 'regular' German Freemason was arrested by the Nazi's. Not one. German Freemasonry supported the Nazi's rise to power, the German Nobility and General Staff was traditionally Masonic, who employed Hitler as an agitator in post war Germany. The Kaiser's family were Freemasons. The Thule Society which bankrolled the Nazi's were Freemasons. German Freemasonry offered Masonic membership to Herman Goering and it is stronly suspected that Rudolf Hess was a Freemason. Hess flew to Scotland to meet with the Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England the Duke of Kent to try to negotiate a seperate truce. The Grand Master of German Freemasonry sent letters of congratulation to Hitler on his election. Hitlers personal hero was Frederick the Great, the founder of Prussian Freemasonry. Hitler kept Freemason Helen Blavatsky's books at his bedside table. The Nazi's were the natural culmination of 200 years of German Masonic Occultism. There are many stories in Masonic Literature of American Mason soliders exchanging secret Masonic signs with captured German Werhmact soliders who were Masons.

But go ahead and quote from the clod who wrote Freemasons for Dummies, a book that contains not a single reference or note. As the saying goes; 'Freemasonry imposes on the ignorant'.

Pity you dont use that fertile immagination for something productive...

Originally posted by talib
I would like to talk about the Grand Patroness of World Freemasonry.

I've never heard of such a thing, nor can I imagine (particularly in the 1700's and 1800's) that such a thng would be tolerated by Masons in countries outside the UK.

I have read lists of names which claim important and historical people to be part of freemasonry and orders of freemasonry.

Most of those lists are bogus.

At least I appluade the imagination of this one. It was funner than most of what we see here.

Originally posted by Viva Christo Rey
80,000 Freemasons did not perish in the Holocaust. Not a single 'regular' German Freemason was arrested by the Nazi's. Not one.

I Posted this before but here goes.

Here is the arrest warrant for Karl Germer, the charge being connected to a freemason and spreading it's teachings. (Ironically the Nazi's couldn't tell the difference between the O.T.O. and masons either)



Translation:

To the
Writer Karl Johannes Germer,
Concentration Camp Columbia
Gegen Beh[?]ndigungsschein [cannot read the word]

Based on §1 of the decree of the Herr Reichspräsident for protection of
people and state of 25. 2. 1933, (RGBl.1 G 23) I order against you
protective custody pending further notice.

_Reasons_
By your continuous contact with the high-grade Freemason Crowley you have supported his subversive activities and attempted by spreading his doctrine to recruit followers for him in Germany.

per procurationem
signed Flesch
attested
[Signature:] Lehmann
office clerk




on "Columbia"

Columbia Haus. Concentration camp located in Berlin, used mainly to hold prisoners under interrogation at the Gestapo headquarters.

(Thanks to Nygdan for finding someone to translate it)

*Edit*



[edit on 31-1-2007 by Tamahu]

Hitler kept Freemason Helen Blavatsky's books at his bedside table.

That's true.


And then he twisted the Gnostic teachings of H.P. Blavatsky to fit his(or rather the Zionist and Dugpa/Drukpa) agenda.





Links:


www.berzinarchives.com...

On Violet Flame Response

www.berzinarchives.com...





[edit on 31-1-2007 by Tamahu]

*Edit - Sorry*



[edit on 31-1-2007 by Tamahu]