Would a helicopter rescue have been impossible?

Originally posted by godofmen

There was 1 man I saw on the roof the entire time waiving his white shirt from the beginning to the police helicopter from WTC I.

Waving a white t-shirt? Hmmm I remember seeing a video of some guy waving a white t-shirt, he was like on the top 2 or 3 floors to the roof and at the corner of the building, I'll try to find it, but I know that this guy was not on the roof.

Ah heres a video of it, shows both an attempted rescue helicopter view, as well as a guy waving some white t-shirt from what look like a second floor from the roof. Corner too. Not on the roof.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Ah heres a video of it, shows both an attempted rescue helicopter view, as well as a guy waving some white t-shirt from what look like a second floor from the roof. Corner too. Not on the roof.

Sorry my friend, as I said... he was waving a white shirt (not t-shirt) from the top of the roof (not window) of Tower 1 in the beginning when the first tower was hit. It was probably 15-20 minutes after the building was hit. I was one of the first watching as I said. The video you're showing with that man was at least an hour into the events. News choppoers weren't close in proximity around the scene as police copters were on site. That footage is compiled and at different instances of the events. I witnessed first hand and you're watching a compiled video. Did they show the guy climbing outside the building of tower 2 - no, I don't think they saw that or it's on any video either.

I'm not here to exagerrate or speak falsehoods and I convey my information accurately as the memory of watching that day and all those who jumped or fell out will always be in my head. Did you see the couple (the lady in the white dress) and the man who held hands and jumped because they probably knew they were dead anyway? Look hard you may see it on some video ... I know they showed it finally when they recently had a 9/11 remembrance documentary special where one individual on the documentary had taken the video.

Thanks for questioning me though, it's good to test how much someone knows and if they are in fact accurate with their info.

No problem godofmen, just remembering that there was a video showing a man waving a white shirt or t-shirt, and if that was what you were mentioning, or just some other person. Just making sure.

Hi All,

I just thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth. I am fortunate that i get to fly around in a chopter quite often doing medical transports. While I am a passanger and not actually doing the flying, I do a few cents to offer:

I agree that a chopter landing on the roof pad would be unlikely cause a collapse. We fly in a BK-117 which has a average weight of about 7500 lbs with fuel etc. the heaviest I could find in my aviation week source book is a C-53E that almost got up to 70,000 lbs, but if they load hot with the rotors turning a good pilot could eliminate most of that load by adjusting the blate pitch to generate lift but still allow loading.

Landing: Assuming a coordinated rescue could take place. Flying a chopter in a city area is fraught with danger. From air currents, to updrafts, to the smoke plume coming from the burning towers etc would be dangerous. Plus as we learned the command and controll situation was less than ideal
to begin with. That alone would add an element of danger with having so many rotary wing craft in close proximity without controll of the situation.

How long after the first tower was hit did the FAA ground everything? That also would have played an impact. It was the right move because no one knew friend from foe at that point. Even our chopter was grounded

Practicality. Assuming that you could even remotly land on the tower with a safety margin (Which I doubt) Unless you managed to get a ANG / Coast guard unit up with a Seahawk etc. , most Police or rescue chopters would at best be able to carry 2-6 people max. If we stripped out our med gear and assuming average sized people, We could get at most 5 people (plus apilot and one trained person on board for loading etc.)

Would you as a pilot endanger your chopper and passengers(news peeps) by landing in chaos?

Yes I think you would. One aspect you have to factor is you have to preserve the crew. Thats how we train. No flames on this please. But if we go down during a medical transport the crew is to evacuate FIRST, evaluate, THEN go back and get the patient if its safe. If you die trying to get them out, you do no one any good. I am a firm beleiver in this principal and most medical flight crews adhere to it as well.

I will add more in a bit

Originally posted by deltaboy
No problem godofmen, just remembering that there was a video showing a man waving a white shirt or t-shirt, and if that was what you were mentioning, or just some other person. Just making sure.

No problem! ... hope I didn't sound too "short" with you.

Yes I think you would. One aspect you have to factor is you have to preserve the crew. Thats how we train. No flames on this please. But if we go down during a medical transport the crew is to evacuate FIRST, evaluate, THEN go back and get the patient if its safe. If you die trying to get them out, you do no one any good. I am a firm beleiver in this principal and most medical flight crews adhere to it as well.

I have to agree with this principal. As a former L.A. County Fire-Fighter Reservist we were trained that upon arriving on scene, we were to walk briskly to the incident itself, not run.

That often came under harsh words:

'My Dad's having a heart attack!' or 'Can't you see that my house is on fire??!!'

The bottom line that was drilled into us was that we can't help anyone else unless we take care of ourselves first. Also, a calm demeanor on our part shows confidence and who's in control.

Back on topic a bit, I do pity the poor FDNY guys who attempted to carry 75 plus pounds of gear up those stairwells and then go to work.





[edit on 31-1-2007 by westman6969]