Crowley real or hoax?

Originally posted by Tamahu

But that people continue to overlook many of his other filthy actions, as to paint him as some sort of saint, is complete insanity:

"During a 1921 ritual, he induced a he-goat to copulate with his mistress, then slit the animal's throat at the moment of orgasm."

Do you know what the source of this story is? I don't think you do as you didn't even get the story correct.

As the story goes, what you posted is what was said Crowley wanted to do, however the goat refused to participate so Crowley dispatched the goat anyway. Leah's back was covered in blood and for some reason Leah asked Mary "whatever shall I do?" Mary Butts responded "I'd have a bath if I were you".

The first thing you notice is the story has a punchline! And that leads you to the truth. Mary Butts concocted the story to help get her name out and sell her stories. According to her Biography she later recanted the story.

If you wish to use some examples that would scare people away from Crowley.. perhaps you should use some of the true ones.

Considering the things he did that we do know about...

Might be interesting but that means you will have to post something that he actually did!

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Such absurd and lurid tales were invented by the Fascist press when he was expelled from Italy.

It still was the British press that was the source of the tales and that eventually caused the fascists to kick him out

He probably even would have gotten a good laugh about the goat story. He was funny that way.

He did... When asked about the goat thing he denied it as absurd stating "For most purposes, human sacrifice is best."

As occultists, we are not as concerned with what Crowley did as we are with the practicality and truth or falsehood of his magical system.
::Snip::
We should not be surprised that a Magister Templi lives out a colossal practical joke at the expense of the Profane: indeed, the Adepts of Mahayana Buddhism have been doing it for centuries.

Well said!

I don't know if he is real or a hoax, he had some interesting writings. I would have had to have known him to be a better judge of his character. One of my favorite quotes from Crowley out of Magick in Theory and in Practice is -



One woman may stay with an unsympathetic husband when she would really be happy in an attic
with a lover, while another may fool herself into a romantic elopement when her only true pleasures
are those of presiding at fashionable functions. Again, a boy’s instinct may tell him to go to sea,
while his parents insists on his becoming a doctor. In such a case, he will be both unsuccessful and
unhappy in medicine.)

I get feelings about things that guide me and they say he practiced real magic but that he wasnt a very powerful magician and that he was just good at making himself known and that alot of people clung to him trying to pretend they knew more than they realy did. that basicly he isnt worth my time reading and that he only talks about what he heard from others.

but who knows? since i feel he has nothing to teach i couldnt learn better from others i havnt realy spent much time reading about him

Originally posted by HuntaXX
I get feelings about things that guide me and they say he practiced real magic but that he wasnt a very powerful magician and that he was just good at making himself known and that alot of people clung to him trying to pretend they knew more than they realy did. that basicly he isnt worth my time reading and that he only talks about what he heard from others.

but who knows? since i feel he has nothing to teach i couldnt learn better from others i havnt realy spent much time reading about him

You wrote that "they say..." Who are "they"?

I personally would be wary of anyone who attempts to control what I read, for obvious reasons. Whether or not Crowley would have any specific meaning to you I cannot say, but reading his books in order to make an informed decision for yourself is certainly recommended.

They being my instincts or feelings. thats how you refer to something you know.
And i was trying to put it nicely that i get the feeling he was full of crap and just wanted to cash in on it all. i see con men like him all the time in my occult studies

Originally posted by HuntaXX
i see con men like him all the time in my occult studies

But how would you know that you have seen "con men like him" when as you have stated you have not read his works? It seems to me that you are basing your assumptions on the word of others without consulting the writing of the man himself.


Vas

Originally posted by HuntaXX
They being my instincts or feelings. thats how you refer to something you know.
And i was trying to put it nicely that i get the feeling he was full of crap and just wanted to cash in on it all. i see con men like him all the time in my occult studies

But how exactly did he try to "cash in"? After all, he spent a fortune publishing his own books just so students could have access to his experiments. He certainly never cashed in on any royalties.

As a matter of fact, when he died, a sum of money was found beneath his bed, which he'd been saving in order to publish his "The Book of Thoth". Thankfully for us, this book was published posthumously. I personally consider it his most mature and greatest work.

Ive read a couple of his books. hardly enough to know a whole lot about him though. im not going to talk about crowly any more because some people feel very strongly about the subject and despite how blunt i was with what i wrote the other day when i was realy tired i dont want to offend anybody

Originally posted by HuntaXX
Ive read a couple of his books. hardly enough to know a whole lot about him though. im not going to talk about crowly any more because some people feel very strongly about the subject and despite how blunt i was with what i wrote the other day when i was realy tired i dont want to offend anybody

No offense taken. From your previous post I got the impression that you hadn't read him at all. So no offense meant by my comment in case I sounded harsh myself.

Vas

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Cug...you post your arguments so clearly and with kindness........I wish I HAD read some AC so I could join in but alas I am at a loss to have read any of his writings.
I am just chiming in because its a good thread and I am learning something from it.......

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