Crowley real or hoax?

I would like someone to explain A Crowley, was he a real or a fraud, what did he stand for?

I'm not an expert on Crowley, but as far as I'm led to believe his humor was wild and he was into even wilder stuff. I suggest that you read some of his works then draw up your own conclusions.

To be honest the answer to your question really is just too complicated/long for a forum post.

One of the better introductions about Crowley can be found here

www.jwmt.org...

Rotten.com surprisingly has a pretty good article about Crowley (with several mistakes), but being ------------------------- it's a bit heavy on the more sensational aspects of his life.

www....-------------------------/library/bio/religion/aleister-crowley/

If you can narrow your question down a bit I'd be happy to answer.

I'm not at all an expert on Crowley...

I do know that Crowley was a real man. He was born in October 1875 in Warwickshire, England.

I think crowley was a freemason with the United Grand Lodge of England, but if my memory serves me ight, He wasnt allways an active member.

Crowley was heavily into black magick and was also a key figure in occultist groups, Golden Dawn, Argentum Astrum and most notably Ordo Templi Orientis. He was appaently an artist, a chess master, astrologer and also a drug taker.

There is a documentary callled "The Wickedest Man In the World" (A name given to Crowley)

He and another man Leah Hirsig set up The Abbey of Thelema in 1920, where he taught various practices including adoration of the sun, yoga type practices and other rituals, He also taught his own writings (I'm not sure of thier content)

Crowley and friend Victor Benjamin Neuburg apparently evoked the demon Choronzon/Coronzon/Coronzom in the Sahara Desert, It is said that Crowley himself was the medium through which the demon was summoned.

He died in a boarding house in Hastings, England on Dec 1st 1947

I suggest watching videos about Crowley, There are many on sites like Google Video & YouTube

Also search google for atricles on Crowleys life

So to answer your quesion, Aleister Crowley was a real man and I beleive he stood for more or less everything dark and evil.

Hope that helps. Talib

Originally posted by talib


I think crowley was a freemason with the United Grand Lodge of England, but if my memory serves me ight, He wasnt allways an active member.

He was a member of an irregular French Lodge not recognized by the UGLE or US Grand Lodges.

Crowley was heavily into black magick and was also a key figure in occultist groups, Golden Dawn, Argentum Astrum and most notably Ordo Templi Orientis. He was appaently an artist, a chess master, astrologer and also a drug taker.

Most of the above is basically correct, except Crowley promoted Theurgy, or "White" Magick, not black magic.

I never heard or read a good word about the guy a bad man, a pervert and a whack job he somehow managed to escape imprisonment.

.

Originally posted by carslake

I never heard or read a good word about the guy a bad man, a pervert and a whack job he somehow managed to escape imprisonment.

.

Yes, unfortunately, most people only have read such propaganda about him. It's a pity there's no many who have actually read Crowley himself, or the works written by his students.

Originally posted by talib

Crowley was heavily into black magick and was also a key figure in occultist groups, Golden Dawn, Argentum Astrum and most notably Ordo Templi Orientis. He was appaently an artist, a chess master, astrologer and also a drug taker.

You forgot, poet , mountain climber (he still holds several records, and made the first attempt on K2), he invented a new version of the card game bridge that became somewhat a fad for a time.

He and another man Leah Hirsig set up The Abbey of Thelema in 1920, where he taught various practices including adoration of the sun, yoga type practices and other rituals, He also taught his own writings (I'm not sure of thier content)

Leah Hirsig, was his girlfriend.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
He was a member of an irregular French Lodge not recognized by the UGLE or US Grand Lodges.

There have been discussions on how one grandlodge (I think it was in the Pacific Northwest) in the US did for a time recognized Crowley's Lodge so for a time he was an (c)Freemason(tm) officially. But IMHO it was more an exercise of creative thinking that anything else.

Originally posted by Cug

There have been discussions on how one grandlodge (I think it was in the Pacific Northwest) in the US did for a time recognized Crowley's Lodge so for a time he was an (c)Freemason(tm) officially. But IMHO it was more an exercise of creative thinking that anything else.

Although this may be off-topic, his Lodge, during his lifetime, was under jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of France (not the Grand Orient, as is sometimes erroneously reported). The Grand Lodge of France was/is also irregular, but in the 1950's, after Crowley's death, his Lodge surrendered their charter from the GLoF, and received a new one from the National Grand Lodge of France, the regular body. It is not completely in error to say that Crowley's irregularity was healed posthumously.

For those interested, Crowley was a member of Lodge in Paris called Anglo-Saxon Lodge (so-called because it was/is an English speaking Lodge in France).

I am not an expert on him, but my impression of him is that he was into shock value, much like Anton Lavey or someone of that nature. I doubt he believed in a lot of the things that he was a "proponent" of.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I am not an expert on him, but my impression of him is that he was into shock value, much like Anton Lavey or someone of that nature.

Well most (not all) of the shocking things he did, people wouldn't blink twice at now days.

He had sex with men.. maybe not totally accepted today, but it's no longer something that will make proper people gasp in horror. His rejection of the Christian faith was another shocker for his day but today not so much.

I doubt he believed in a lot of the things that he was a "proponent" of.

I hear that quite a bit.. but honestly I don't understand it. Could you show some examples of things you think he really didn't believe in?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I doubt he believed in a lot of the things that he was a "proponent" of.

I don't think thats the case.

Originally posted by Cug

I doubt he believed in a lot of the things that he was a "proponent" of.

I hear that quite a bit.. but honestly I don't understand it. Could you show some examples of things you think he really didn't believe in?

Well, a case in point, he claimed to be the "anti-Christ." I seriously doubt that he believed that.. It seems to me that the claim was more for attention that it spurned than due to any honest belief he had...

Ahhhhh OK I see where your coming from now.

Basically you are talking about his rather unique sense of humor.

In this case he never claimed to be the Anti-Christ. He called himself the Beast 666, (His mother used to call him the beast when he acted up as a child) and if someone happened to think he meant the Anti-Christ well that's just fine by him. As well as being just a nickname, he also put some esoteric meanings to it.

Oh and while under oath in a court of law he said it meant little sunshine. (666 being the value of the magical square of the sun).

ATS Thread:


Crowley, what is so bad?

Originally posted by Cug
Oh and while under oath in a court of law he said it meant little sunshine. (666 being the value of the magical square of the sun).

Also:


Truth about 666

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Yes, unfortunately, most people only have read such propaganda about him. It's a pity there's no many who have actually read Crowley himself, or the works written by his students.

And how common is that!!

Reading ABOUT someone - through the lens of another someone's (assumptive/speculative) OPINION is an altogether different endeavor than getting to know them through what they've left for us when they depart - specifically, writings of all sorts.

I'm only just getting to know AC through his writings these last few months - until recently that was an activity that required extensive googling to get something that struck a chord with me - but I have a friend who gifted me with a beautiful edition of AC's Magick Book IV last week - and two other smaller volumes on Enochian Sex Magick and Thelema - written by students, I presume. I am totally thrilled with the big volume that AC wrote, though - for various reasons unrelated to this thread.

From what I understand, he was quite prolific as a writer.

My point being this: I won't pretend to be any sort of expert on the huge body of study/work that has grown in his following - nor do I know much at all about the societies/hierarchies he was involved with - my interest in Crowley is new and is not about what he did but who he was as a person...and the occult interest of his life as Therion 666 is secondary to E.A. Crowley, the human being, as far as I am personally concerned.

I do feel that I have had no difficulty at all discerning his character, through what I've read so far - his writings on Magick and experiential accounts of what followed. I personally have an intense fetish for words and all things related - and so my standards are high. And, truly, I can't recall anyone who has impressed me more, in that regard, than he has, so far.

I find his written expression to be extremely professional and he demonstrates a rare precision in choice of vocabulary; especially in his way of clinically describing activities that are about as far from 'clinical' detachment as anything could be!

I am persuaded that he was VERY serious about the bigger goal for which he was called to serve and therefore he demonstrated his respect for the work with his dispassionate and thorough written accounts. Add that to my own personal experiences which manifested certain evidences solid enough to stand on their own - and I truly believe he was VERY successful in his part of 'the Great Work.'

His poetry is also of an exceptional quality - as far as construction, rhythm, and mastery of language in artistic form - his gift is undeniably sublime. Some of the subject matter (such as in the poem about Lilith) would offend the casual reader, but from my perspective, it indicates a truly rare light within that most can't recognize for what it is.

It seems to me that he was quite conservative and most likely valued his own personal integrity; making a sincere effort to be responsible and accountable for his actions and thoughts. The shock value part of his persona was, according to my current opinion, superficial and something he used to his advantage rather than as a means to seek attention and gain personal notoriety - kind of like a diversionary tactic for the sake of his own privacy as an individual, especially when same was threatened by unfriendly and judgmental opposition.

On a more intangible/ethereal level - the vibes I get from his spirit and his writings are true blue agape and he feels very pure to me - regardless of the end of his life as E. A. Crowley, I do think that his soul/spirit gained immensely from that lifetime and that he overcame the illusion of life/death and therefore transcended the tangible in full.

Perhaps when he crossed over after he died, and so was then able to see his life in truth without perspective, he realized his accomplishments were fruitful...something which surely has the power to free our very last stains of mortality. I'm starting to understand that only in death can we find our true life - what might seem a sad ending to an unsuccessful tour of duty incarnate is, in truth, the exact opposite! A victory only fully realized when one is on the OTHER side of the door we call 'death!'

I'm interested in what you guys, Masonic Light and Cug, specifically, have to say about my impressions - how they compare with your own. And what do those you associate with think, as well? Just for the sake of furthering my understanding of AC's enigmatic being-ness.

Originally posted by queenannie38

I'm only just getting to know AC through his writings these last few months - until recently that was an activity that required extensive googling to get something that struck a chord with me -

Well to help on that matter...
www.hermetic.com... Click on the first link (The Libri of Aleister Crowley) there you find most of the important works. and the rest of the site is about 90% about Thelema.

This page
athenaeum.asiya.org... has the same stuff + copies of the Equinox all in pdf format.

but I have a friend who gifted me with a beautiful edition of AC's Magick Book IV last week

Did you get the version than is known as the big blue brick?

and two other smaller volumes on Enochian Sex Magick and Thelema - written by students, I presume.

Lon is #2 in the US O.T.O., Hyatt is more of a general occult student.

My point being this: I won't pretend to be any sort of expert on the huge body of study/work that has grown in his following - nor do I know much at all about the societies/hierarchies he was involved with - my interest in Crowley is new and is not about what he did but who he was as a person...and the occult interest of his life as Therion 666 is secondary to E.A. Crowley, the human being, as far as I am personally concerned.

If your interested in his life read his autobiography The Confessions of Aleister Crowley (You can find it on the bottom of the Crowley page on hermetic.com) and the Book Do What Thou Wilt: A Life Of Aleister Crowley by Lawrence Sutin for a non-occultist bio.

IMHO you can not separate the occult from Crowley's life, it is just too ingrained into it. If you wish to understand some of his actions you have to look at the occult reasoning behind them

I find his written expression to be extremely professional and he demonstrates a rare precision in choice of vocabulary; especially in his way of clinically describing activities that are about as far from 'clinical' detachment as anything could be!

Just a little tip about reading Crowley. He was a poet at heart, some many times instead of using a word that might be clearer, he used another that he found more pleasing or better representative of something that has many and deep ideas behind it.

- and I truly believe he was VERY successful in his part of 'the Great Work.'

I have just recently read some letter of his from the last few years of his life. He did not think he accomplished the great work. He felt that his purpose for this incarnation was solely to spread the word of Thelema above all other things.

His poetry is also of an exceptional quality - as far as construction, rhythm, and mastery of language in artistic form - his gift is undeniably sublime. Some of the subject matter (such as in the poem about Lilith) would offend the casual reader, but from my perspective, it indicates a truly rare light within that most can't recognize for what it is.

I really don't care for poetry in general. you might like this poem from a soon to be published book of Crowley's poetry www.lashtal.com...

It seems to me that he was quite conservative and most likely valued his own personal integrity;

That is very true.. despite many of his actions and words is was still a proper English gentleman.

The shock value part of his persona was, according to my current opinion, superficial and something he used to his advantage rather than as a means to seek attention and gain personal notoriety - kind of like a diversionary tactic for the sake of his own privacy as an individual, especially when same was threatened by unfriendly and judgmental opposition.

That and he just liked playing jokes on people


BTW I just have to snicker a bit when I saw your avatar. it's the first time I have seen anything related to Crowley done up like it came from a Care Bears cartoon. no offense!

BTW if your interested in Lam, you need to read Kenneth Grant, he is the only one to expand on that picture, and the tiny tiny tiny bit of info Crowley gave.

He was also a member of the Golden Dawn and the OTO. Its funny how on ats you only hear about the "good" things crowley did. I honestly believe he was a crazy perverted nut. So crazy that most lodges accepted his sick twisted beliefs. Even in his novels will you not find the truth to such a wierd personality. Where would you imagine a person who proclaimed to be "the great beast 666" to dwell for all eternity? Sure as not heaven! lol? Much less he also changed his name so it numerically equals 666.

Sacrificing humans isnt something that would get you into heaven either? Lol!

Funny How this thread is full of "good" things to say about crowley and the other somebody above me posted is about more "bad" things lol. Its like people are being more honest in separate threads lol, I mean I wouldnt admit to raping children now if I was now would I?

Lmfao! *sarcasm*



[edit on 22-3-2007 by topsecretombomb]

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
Its funny how on ats you only hear about the "good" things crowley did.

You know I have said plenty of times here that there is plenty of stuff about Crowley that would make most people cringe. But it seems that for the most part people are just to lazy to get past the lies.

I honestly believe he was a crazy perverted nut.

I don't have a problem with that. how about some real examples?

Sacrificing humans isnt something that would get you into heaven either?

Like I said.. people are to lazy to find the truth.