Successful Black Prejudice

This issue most definitely needs to be explored in this thread, especially when it has to do with the emission of such stereotypes as purported in the OP.


[edit on 30-1-2007 by ceci2006]

FINALLY we agree Ceci!!!!!!

The emission of the stereotype purported in the OP of Black Prejudice against successful black's, DEFINITELY needs exploring!!!!

Outstanding, now that we are on the same page, we can make some progress....

Semper

Originally posted by HarlemHottie

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Which is what I gave. My best guess and I said it was just a guess.

Why are you being so defensive? That wasn't, like, sneakily directed at you, you know.

Sorry it came out that way. I wasn't being defensive at all. It wasn't my intent. I am sure that if you had something to say to me you'd say it right out (which is appreciated - BTW). Seriously .. 'defensive' wasn't the intent. I was agreeing with you and was using myself as an example of what you said - 'just giving opinions'.

Originally posted by ceci2006
those from the dominant culture purport to know all they can about people of color,

The author of this thread asked 'why'. He OBVIOUSLY wasn't saying that he 'purported to know all' about black people.

Since some from the dominant culture have no regard for the privacy of some groups of color,

That's funny. Many black people continually make comments about non-black culture. They continually make comments and try to tell white people what to do and how to think. And they complain that non-black people don't understand them but then when non-black people ask questions about the culture, then those non-blacks get spit upon by the very blacks they are trying to understand.

So why bother trying to understand? It's a serious turn off to good race relations.

is it quite fair for a member of color to cross those boundaries in order to do research and critically analyze those from the dominant culture and their supporters?

ONLY if it is fair for a white person to cross those black self-imposed racial 'boundaries' in order to do research and critically analyze those from the minority culture and their supporters.

Is it also fair for a person of color not to have any regard for the feelings of someone from the dominant culture when they do such a critical analysis?

It's okay for black people to trash non-blacks but it isn't okay for non-blacks to explore, analyze, and come up with negative findings about something in the black culture??

The truth is the truth. If anyone, no matter what their skin color happens to be, sees something negative about another person's culture and exposes it then it's just exposing truth. Just because a person of that culture doesn't want to see the truth doesn't mean that it should be hidden away or that people should walk on egg shells because it's embarrassing to people of that culture.

when they spread these stereotypes

The FACT that some black people feel the need to trash other black people who are successful and hard working is NOT a stereotype. It's a fact.

Do those from the dominant culture solely have the power to "critically analyze"

Critically analyze why some blacks trash successful blacks and call them 'white' as if it were evil ... go ahead ...

emission of such stereotypes as purported in the OP.

... discussion of a FACT as purported in the OP. :shk:


ON TOPIC - back to the topic ...
WHY do some black people feel the need to trash other black people when they are successful and/or hard working? That's a basic question. And as yet I have not seen any credible sociological/psychological links answering that exact question - which is the topic of this thread.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
ON TOPIC - back to the topic ...
WHY do some black people feel the need to trash other black people when they are successful and/or hard working? That's a basic question. And as yet I have not seen any credible sociological/psychological links answering that exact question - which is the topic of this thread.

Why did you totally ignore my link?

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Why did you totally ignore my link?

Did I miss something? Seriously. What link? I know you said in a post that you U2Ud something to BH. But I didn't get anything. Was it posted here? I'm missing something ... I didn't 'ignore' ... I missed. Please U2U me the link you wish to share. I'd greatly like to see it.

Thank you.

Since anyone didn't answer my previous questions except to ridicule them, it is perhaps time to ask a new one.

What if someone posted a thread about some Whites calling other whites, "white trash"?

After all, to call someone "white trash" is as applicable classwise as it is to call someone "Oreo" or "Uncle Tom".

Do you think that "White Trash" ranks up there with "Oreoes" and "Uncle Toms"?

I'm sure that there are some experts here who can explain all about "white trash", can they not?



[edit on 30-1-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
What if someone posted a thread about some Whites calling other whites, "white trash"?

Excellent. Start it. Social issues. Go for it.

FF, I thought I asked you not to address my posts again.

I'll ask you a second time politely:

Please do not address my posts again.

If you need help comprehending this message, every time you do this I will repeat this request over and over until you understand it.

Thank you very much.

[edit on 30-1-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
I thought I asked you not to address my posts again.

You did. But that's not how it works on a discussion board. You post something and everyone has the right to respond.

in making fun of my posts

Don't say things that are ignorant and people won't point them out to you.
I'm not making fun of you. If your post is lacking ... that's your fault.

would constitute harrassment.

Hit the complaint button if you think you are being harrassed.
The fact that you aren't getting a free ride from me isn't harrassment.
It's called REBUTTAL. It happens on a discussion board. If all you want is an echo chamber .. go start your own website.

Hey .. I thought you were going to go start your new social issues thread - why do some white people call other white people 'white trash' .... we are waiting in anticipation ... go ahead ...

edit on 30-1-2007 by ceci2006]

You seriously need to have your edit button taken away. It's STILL very hard to keep up with 3 or 4 edits of your posts. )

[edit on 1/30/2007 by FlyersFan]

You are harrassing me. I wish you would stop so we can keep the peace on the board.

If you don't, we'll just have involve a mod in this.



[edit on 30-1-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
You are harrassing me.

No I'm not.

we'll just have involve a mod in this.

BRING IT!

Now that constitutes a threat along with personal harassment. I'm sorry that you don't take requests very well. I asked you very nicely to leave me alone.

I'm getting a mod right now. I'm sorry to take this step, but I want it to stop.

I apologize to the others on this thread for the situation between myself and FF.




[edit on 30-1-2007 by ceci2006]

I wish you two, Ceci and FF, would stop this bickering, or take it to u2u. It really breaks up the continuity of the thread.

And, FF, you still haven't answered my question:

Why did you totally ignore my link?

[edit on 30-1-2007 by HarlemHottie]

It has been handled.

As for myself, it will not happen any more because I do not want to bicker with anyone and would much rather deal with the discourse that has been built already.

As noted above, I am very sorry for what had happened.




[edit on 30-1-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
I wish you two, Ceci and FF, would stop this bickering, or take it to u2u. It really breaks up the continuity of the thread.

Yes. Yes, it does.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How about we return to discussing the topic of this thread, Successful Black Prejudice , as opposed to an individual's character, intent, or perceived purpose here.

Successful Black Prejudice IS the topic of discussion.


Thank you.

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
And, FF, you still haven't answered my question:

Why did you totally ignore my link?

[edit on 30-1-2007 by HarlemHottie]

Well I was interested in it, but something caught my eye right off the bat:

First, acting white.is not unique to Blacks and we (purposefully) reference other groups plagued by similar phenomena.

Glaring punctuation error. Was it that way in the original article? I didn't have time to go through 37 pages to find out.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Why did you totally ignore my link?

Did I miss something? Seriously. What link? I know you said in a post that you U2Ud something to BH. But I didn't get anything. Was it posted here? I'm missing something ... I didn't 'ignore' ... I missed. Please U2U me the link you wish to share. I'd greatly like to see it.

Thank you.

It was in my response at the end of the last page. You replied to part of it, but not this part:

The only way for the person who authored this thread to get a good answer would be to dig up some sociologists/psychologists who can give professional input. Otherwise, we are all just guessing.

I've stopped quoting experts because people tend not to read them, or at least, respond to them. It's a huge waste of time for me... but, since you asked, here's what two economists have found. I tend to trust 'numbers people' on this more than sociologists or psychologists. There's no telling whether the other two types of 'experts' are lying, except for your 'gut', so it's easy to go with whoever reinforces your original opinion. You can at least check a proof.

An Economic Analysis of 'Acting White' by Roland G. Fryer (with D. Austen-Smith). Quarterly Journal of Economics, May 2005

First, acting white is not unique to Blacks and we (purposefully) reference other groups plagued by similar phenomena. Second, and most important, because various insidious forms of social interaction such as acting white.exist does not imply that nothing can be done about them. The comparative static results suggest that improved labor markets, group incentives, and means for supporting implicit community-specic contracts are likely to undermine acting white. In the past, the sorts of interaction explored here have been used by some to argue that particular subgroups are responsible for their own marginalization [see, for example, McWhorter 2000]. The implication being that policies aimed at eradicating educational achievement differences are ill-advised. In contrast, by analyzing such a phenomenon in a rational choice framework, it is transparent that the behavior is a result of strategic interaction for which any group with the same initial conditions would fall victim. As such, nothing should be ascribed to the inherent values, preferences, or ideologies of particular groups who are plagued by this insidious form of social interaction.

I take this to mean that any group with the same history would have the same stigma (against 'acting white'), and that it is not the result of any cultural deficiency.

edited for nit-picky people like jso

[edit on 30-1-2007 by HarlemHottie]

Originally posted by jsobecky
Glaring punctuation error. Was it that way in the original article? I didn't have time to go through 37 pages to find out.

If that's your only criticism, I guess it's a pretty good article. They're economists, not English teachers.

But, no, I think that was my fault, a result of cutting a pasting from a pdf file. It happened weirdly a few times, but I deleted them. I must have missed that one.

This part of your post caught my eye, b/c it's something I've been meaning to say but couldn't find the right words/meaning:

I've stopped quoting experts because people tend not to read them, or at least, respond to them. It's a huge waste of time for me... but, since you asked, here's what two economists have found. I tend to trust 'numbers people' on this more than sociologists or psychologists. There's no telling whether the other two types of 'experts' are lying, except for your 'gut', so it's easy to go with whoever reinforces your original opinion. You can at least check a proof.

I think that sociologists are predominantly liberal, so my interest was piqued. Numbers people are usually less biased, so I wanted to see what led you to reach your conclusion.

The punctuation error wasn't nitpicking. I've never picked up an ASCII character in doing a cut and paste, so other possibilities came to mind.

The "not English teachers" argument doesn't wash, since we're both aware of the level of editing and proofreading that these articles go through.

Enough about punctuation. What do you think of their findings?