Was the Nazi Bell the first real UFO?

Are UFOs manmade? Were Nazi machines the first UFOs? Did America seize their research projects after the war was over and continue to refine this amazing technology?

No. Quite frankly I'm amazed at how many people believe such things.

First of all, IF the Nazi's had invented some sort of anti-gravity technology (which yielded any real results or had any real practical applications) they would have won the war and none of us would be talking about this topic.

Nazis having an interest in Anti-Gravity doesn't mean a damn thing. Einstein published his geometrical theory of gravitation in 1915. There were some Nazi classified programs attempting to study the nature of the gravity (for military applications I'm sure) but they got nowhere.

The reason they got nowhere is the same reason we are getting nowhere today in that field... because it's an extremely big problem.

This is a part of the problem - nobody knows what is gravity. This is one area of physics where we haven't progressed much in our understanding of the matter beyond dropping stones off the Pisa tower. True, we know much more about the effects of gravity and we can use this knowledge for such sophisticated tasks as plotting a course of a spaceship. However, our incomplete understanding of this fundamental force of nature is limited to what it does, while we would like to know how it does it.

Source

For those who are a bit more scientifically minded here is a column written in the mid 1980s (a bit old yes) explaining the difficulties when dealing with negative mass in both Newtonian gravity and General Relativity.

One of the great and persistent technological dreams of science fiction has been the invention which would nullify or reverse the force of gravity. H. G. Wells in The First Men in the Moon did it in 1901 with Cavorite, a substance which shields objects behind it from gravitational lines of force. James Blish in the Cities in Flight series used the Spindizzy, a device which converts rotation and magnetism into gravity fields and forces. And, of course, "floaters", "null-g speeders" and "grav sleds" have abounded as techno-props in science fiction stories for many years.
And yet the control of gravity is no closer today than it was in Wells' time. If anything, as we have come to understand more about gravity the problem looks more difficult.

Source

Secondly, "Anti-Gravity Nazi technology" did not spawn our modern avionics or aerospace. Aerospace technologies were greatly enhanced by avoinics which were greatly impacted by the invention of the transistor in 1947 (and thus advances in electronics).

Also, aerodynamics has nothing to do with anti-gravity. UFOs do not fly. UFOs vector along trajectories. For more on this see Paul R. Hill. Dr. Hill's resume speaks for itself. His scientific analysis of UFOs was published by his daughter (after his death) in 1995 (I think). Hill scientifically breaks down UFO technology in his book Unconventional Flying Objects.

Thirdly, UFOs didn't just appear during/after WW2. There is many other reports of strange craft / aerial activity (besides renaissance paintings and cave drawings) prior to the Hitler escapades. Obviously the farther back in time you go the less good documentation there is on any subject (not just the UFO phenomenon).

So here is the deal>>> Get over your manmade ego. Humans don't have Anti-Gravity / repulsive force field / whatever it is technology yet. If the US Military would have receieved such great technology from the Nazi's (which could account for Kenneth Arnold's amazing 1947 sighting over Washington State), then they (the Nazis) would have conquered the world and thus rumors of "deals with the Nazis" would be a moot point.

Think about this: If we presume that UFOs are under "intelligent alien" control then why would would sightings increase during/after WW2? Why would they have an increased interest in our species? Could it be that by splitting the atom for the first time in history made them aware of our new found awareness of quantum mechanics?

Conclusion:

1) I'm tired of this overemphasized fictional relationship between UFOs and Nazi technology. Nazi scientists may have toyed with the idea of anti-gravity which may have peaked the curiousity of allied scientists, but nothing concrete has come of it. By "toying" I mean they quickly realized that saucers make lousy airplanes. And somewhere along the way (while tinkering with thrust vector control) this spawned modern helicopters.


2) Stating that UFOs originated from "far out Nazi technology" drives me just as crazy as those who think aliens don't "invade" because they are afraid of US military might.

1. There were plenty of sightings prior to the rise of the Nazis. Arnold's story brought the issue more in the public eye, but sightings go back much, much further, even only considering modern ones.

2. BOTH the Allies and the Axis pilots saw, and were concerned by, foo fighters. They were NOT German aircraft.

3. Even if you assume that foo fighters WERE German aircraft, you'd have a huge problem...PAPERCLIP. The Allied capture/defection of scientists after the war certainly would have yielded the existence of such craft.

4. If the Germans truly had such craft, we'd all be typing in German on this board (if we'd even have it)....

5. Consider the LA Event of 1942, thousands of shells of AAA firing and the observed (and photographed) object kept going. As I said, if it was German, then we'd be hailing the furer right now....

6. Most of the Horton planes were fragile prototypes, made of thin wood, etc. and certainly were not capable of the feats ascribed to foo fighters. And this idea of the Nazis somehow being able to bypass the Allies in the Med and the Atlantic, and get tons of equipment to South America or Antarctica is ridiculous. Individuals may have done so, but not any kind of mass exodus...

Originally posted by Celtibero

Originally posted by hiii_98
No, the Bell and other exotic technology was shipped to South America on a plane weeks before the Russians closed in.
[edit on 27-1-2007 by hiii_98]

What kind of plane in the Luftwaffe arsenal do you believe could carry such ammount of payload at such incredible range? Do you guys realize the distance from the Germany of 1945 to South America, right? Do you realize the place was swarming with Allied fighters? You know that there was not such thing as a C-5 Galaxy in the Third Reich, right?

Actually Celtibero, the Ju-390 was flown to South Africa according to it's acknowledged pilot Hans Pancherz.

You need to research back copies of the daily telegraph newspaper from September 1969 which published an interview with Pancherz.

The Ju-390 also flew a mission to Tokyo on 28 March 1945 via the polar route. I have elsewhere online assumed it flew from a large airport built by the nazis at Oslo but more recently I learned from SS documents that the Ju-390 was used to fly the so called "bell" from Silesia to Bodo in February 1945. It would seem that quite possibly the flight to Tokyo was from Bodo in Norway.

The Ju-390V1 prototype was flown to Dessau in November 1944 and stripped of propellors until burned in April 1945. If the aircraft was derilict then what was the Ju-390 photographed at Prague airport in February 1945 ?



Junkers Historian Horst Zoller told me in 2005 that a Bv222 flying boat also flew to Sakhalin. The Bv222 had both long range and a big freight hold with a square side door.

Originally when I started to correspond with Nick Cook author of Zero Point, I was hugely skeptical.

Since then, I have independently come across so much information about the Nazi bell from other sources that I now believe there must be something to it.

The bell works because it was surrounded by electromagnets which excited mercury inside the bell to spin and fluoresce into a gas plasma.

Nuclear scientist Lise Meinter who was no crackpot also wrote about it after the war in her memoirs.

It may be that the Nazis stumbled upon a technique to alter gravity. It is equally possible that eventually this technology came into US hands and this may well explain UFO sightings.

I am not personally much of a believer in UFOs. It is far more plausible that USA got a hold of this technology and are quite happy to let people speculate about little green men to distract the world from the true technology.

3. Even if you assume that foo fighters WERE German aircraft, you'd have a huge problem...PAPERCLIP. The Allied capture/defection of scientists after the war certainly would have yielded the existence of such craft.

Gazrok are you saying that for all the billions of dollars which US taxpayers sank into Paperclip that USA did not harvest technology to allow it to maintain millitary supremacy for the entire Cold War ?

Are you suggesting that if the US Government harvested such amazing technology it would simply have published it in Popular Mechanics ?


[edit on 19-2-2008 by sy.gunson]

lastly - in 1982 the RAF mounted the " black buck " missions , which at the time was the worlds longest

ONLY 2 bombers made each sortie - requiring 11 yup 11 tankers - some of which were needed to refuel other tankers - which had to off load all thier fuel to the bombers

how the hell do you think the germans could send cargo loads over a greater distance ????????????

Ignorant ape, I used to fly in ATL.98 Carvairs which were converted DC-4s. You'd be surprised if all you've ever experienced are gas turbine aircraft just how fuel efficient big radial engined planes are with fuel.

Look at the fuel consumption of a Ju-390 with six BMW 801D engines at cruise settings:

The Ju-390 would need 15-20 minutes to reach 20,000 feet and consume 200 US Gallons to get there.

Using six engines at long range cruise of 55 US Gallons Per Hour for 32 hours equates 63,360 pounds of fuel, plus 1,152 lb for take off and climb to 19,000ft. That makes for a total of 64,512 lb fuel.

the Ju-390's total fuel capacity was around 65,000lb. The operating empty weight (OEW) was 86,900lb. Maximum Take off Weight (MTOW) was 166,100lb so you see the payload capacity for 8,000nm was 14,771lb

The Ju-290 could fly distance similar to a Boeing 747SP.

The Ju-290 could fly distance similar to a Boeing 747SP.

OOps meant to say Ju-390 had the range of a 747SP. Can't edit for some reason.

Also the 55 US gals per hour is meant to read per engine.

What was the FOO.

Not the Bell.

All we still see is spots of light in the sky for UFOs, its still FOOs
for all we know.

High energy statics must be at play, but how is that possible.

V2 development was attributed to a Nazi Officer, so what was
Von Braun doing... was it the FOO or advanced space ships.

I only read page 1 of this thread so forgive me if I missed something important.

While the notion that humanity had somehow developed anti-gravity technology in the 1940's, don't you think thats somewhat overly optimistic considering less than 10 years before that we were amazed at our feat of jet propulsion? I thought the top secret stuff the nazi's were working on was a new kind of jet propulsion that was somehow better and was stolen by the US after the war?

I'm not expert on any of these things, just what I have heard/learned. I just find it HIGHLY doubtful that scientists from the 1940s could create anti-gravity technology, right after they had just announced jets to be the latest and greatest.

reply to post by Demonis


Anti-gravity or lack of gravity is done by breaking the hold of
momentum of the earth.

Some how its done electrically or statically with millions of volts
in the atmosphere containing atomic particles and atoms (air).

Control is now electric which is 10 to the 40th more powerful than
gravity.

The electrical scientists knew of this but only Tesla proved it.
No one wanted the electric propulsion except the Germans.

Say like at 100 and at 50 years ago were the break points in understanding
which we have been deprived of.

Thanks for reviving this thread and shedding some light on my claims. I think the Nazi Bell may have played a very important role in antigravity technology and quite possibly shed light on the UFO phenomena.

reply to post by hiii_98


I think the Bell existed, at least in pictures and photos with the inventor.

If thats what I saw in many books.

But nothing on if it sparks in the sky as a FOO supposedly did.

But again the Bell might be the FOO craft.
Or the Bell body outfitted with other similar equipment.

reply to post by Gazrok

how do u know that germany was in the early stages of development of flying saucers and the americans stole their info and have had 60.years too develop it mmmmmmm in world war 2 americans went only too places in germany to get the seicentists so they would hav the technolgy thats why they went to war in frist place why do u think they went to sadam hussian answer money plus oil .................

Hey guys forgive me if this has already been posted but on liveleak there is a video about the bell that is quite interesting. The video shows an inside look of the underground base that the "bell" was meant to be tested. It also takes a closer look at the flytrap that conveniently sat directly above this base and has images of the structure in 1944.

Nazi Bell - Secret Technology (LiveLeak)

Enjoy

/rich

Goo Day hiii_98,

I think this whole UFO topic may have all originated from the Nazi Bell, and that (sorry to dissapoint) UFOs where never flown by scary aliens, but rather by humans, and covered up by various goverments to this day. If you follow the potential and history of "the bell" you will understand how all of the exotic technolgy claimed by a UFO could actually have a human origin. Besides the idea of flying saucers did not become popular until around 1947...after the Nazi defeat...

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate:

First the "Nazi Bell" was a "static device," according to your own source, "Tim Ventura" and by default his, "Nick Cook" et al.

Moreover, Cook writes," it apparently was able create a variety of startling effects on "nearby" [emphasis added] objects.

Those "effects" were "uncontrollable" at the time (end of '44 into '45), as Cook writes, "During the tests, the scientists placed various types of plants, animals, and animal tissues within the Bell’s sphere of influence. In the initial test period of November to December 1944, almost all of the samples were destroyed.

People exposed to the program complained of ailments, in spite of their protective clothing. These ranged from sleep problems, loss of memory and balance, muscle spasms and a permanent and unpleasant metallic taste in the mouth."

The point highlighted here is that although there was some interesting results from the "Nazi Bell" it was far from successful, and understood. SO taking this "static device" to full fledged "flying saucers" with extraordinary flight characteristics is a bit of a stretch.

Additionally, "Foo Fighters" were reported as early as 1943 (if not earlier) and they were reported by "Allied" pilots as well as "Axis" pilots alike. Foo Fighters were mainly reported as "balls of lights"; however there were also reports of "flying discs" (i.e. saucers).

Ventura further writes: "Neither the ME-262 nor the Coanda-Effect disk devices were ready in time for use against the Allies . . . its possible to speculate [emphasis added] that they were trying to leap to a completely electromagnetic propulsion system after realizing the limited potential in controllability and speed from their experimentation with the Coanda-Effect saucer technology.

To summarize: by "your own" resources "Flying Disks" weren't ready at the war's end, and the "Nazi Bell" wasn't perfected nor completely understood.

Foo Fighters were reported much earlier and weren't exclusive to Hitler's enemies. Moreover, although the thinking at the time (on both sides) was that the opponent had some "new" secret weapon, there were never any reports of aircraft lost to this phenomenon.

Finally, UFOs have been reported long before the Nazi's came to power; we'll omit the data about the occupants who certainly don't resemble members of the Aryan race.

Cheers,
Frank

Okay. This will be a bit of reading. If you link up some stories its true that you can connect alot of stuff from the "bell" to modern folklore UFO´s.

Consider this :

The bell was in fact the most secret in all of germany at the time, NOTHING was as well protected as this project.

The guy (cant remenber his name but its easy to find) who developed it had pre ww2 worked with Einstein on the UMT theories.

One myth tells of people getting sick when beeing around the bell for a long period of time.

Antigravity exist as a freak accident when fiddling with a large amount of watts, around mercury. Mercury is VERY poisenuous so maybe the bell was mercury driven.

The SS guy in charge of the project dissapeared without a trace after WW2. Maybe US offered him asylum and big $ for the bell.

This actually makes another theory interesting. Area 51.

If the German SS i charge of the bell was taken to the US with a disasembled prototype it and give or take a few changes to make the bell functionally it would actually fit very well with the first UFO sightings and the myth surrounding Area 51.

The flying triangle is a very good example.

Some say that its possible to make a anti gravity plane that reduce gravity by 89%. So if you have a craft that weigh like 100 kg you only need enginepower to lift 11kg to make 100kg fly.. !!

The flying triangle has been spotted several places and theres alot of rumors of skin that can change colour and shape and bla. bla. bla. BUT what if the flying triangle in truth could be the Bell only at its current evolution point. ? Reducing weight of any wehicle by 89% is a huge step towards both speed and range. Consider only having to carry fuel enough to propel a Cessna when flying a Hercules !?!?

Anyway, all of this in my mind link up very nice.

After ww2 Russia went into resarch on antigravtity big style and was open about it. But not the US.. Why ?? Maybe cus´ they already had the technology..

Anyway the Bell is very interesting readíng and theories are many. Im not a UFO man and do NOT believe in green aliens and ET´s etc. But the Bell is a fact. It DID exist. But noone know what it was for sure. It could be a flying saucer, or Hitlers personal bathtub, noone knows for sure.. But the linkage between the above is very interesting..

reply to post by Frank Warren


I just finished reading Jim Marrs book "The Rise of the Fourth Reich" and he discusses the Nazi "Bell". It seems it may have had something to do with time and trying to control it. The scientists who worked on it were shot as the enemies advanced, so what it was will remain a mystery. The Nazis also were doing research in the theories that were the opposite of Einstein as he was Jewish and the Nazis thought their science was inferior.
In short, I do not believe the flying saucers seen in the early forties and fifties were ours or the Russians, as we would of had to start from scratch on any of that technology.

The Nazi Bell made electro-photonic tritium the same material Maria O.had in the rock. What was weird was the same smell of the crash bodies of roswell has something to do with the Nazi bell sientist dying. Hitler was useing the device to power himself with extreme bio electro magnetic energy acually success making a material to power himself his main power
was electro-photonic tritium his further work was to be powered by a pulsed plasmic photon giving him powers like God to reign a thousand year reich.

3 pages of Die Glocke and not one mention of Hans Kammler!

The bell was most likely located near Prague, I very much doubt it ended up in South America. I also do not believe it had anything to do with Von Braun. It was above the likes of Project Paperclip and was more to do with the elite of the elite of the Kammlerstab. At least, those who survived with the material of whatever Kammler's group was working on (including the Bell). Whoever got (or got to) Kammler has the Bell now.

Originally posted by hiii_98
Thanks for reviving this thread and shedding some light on my claims. I think the Nazi Bell may have played a very important role in antigravity technology and quite possibly shed light on the UFO phenomena.

Well, from what I have read so far the Nazi Bell is shrouded in mystery and it is by no means certain a flying prototype had been constructed.

I'm not a tech-guy but I've been reading and watching on aviation. From this I can also determine that it would have been very difficult to build an anti-gravity aircraft. How do you control the craft? What about the airflow going over the craft? What about going supersonic? With airspeeds above mach 2 the craft would have encountered something called 'the heat barrier', the airframe would expand from heat caused by friction with the atmosphere. The Concorde was designed with this in mind as was the SR-71 Blackbird which literally leaked fuel on the ground.
It took decades to work out all the problems with lots of crashes and fatalities. Many test pilots died reaching the limits of the aircraft designs, and I'm not even discussing 'fly-by-wire'. From this perspective I find it very hard to imagine that Nazi Germany had a working anti-gravity craft and even 2 production series as some people suggest. It takes time, effort and cost. Even in human lives.

Another matter to consider.

reply to post by hiii_98


nah, I think there's a lot more out there.
I mean, if the Nazi's did create that sort of stuff, you really think the west would still be using jets?
we took everything from them... and the best we got was the Saturn V rocket?

do you know Haunebu story

they said that they escaped on Haunebu III to South America and later to Antartica...

heres something

www.ufo-hypothesen.de...*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*

tronlaser.blogspot.com...