Government knows they're BUSTED!!!

So we all know that income tax is illegal and there's no law for it.

THE GOVERNMENT KNOWS THEY"RE BUSTED.

Now who here has the knowledge of what it would take to make this a law. What kind of process does this involve and what kind of signs do we need to look out for. More importantly is there anyway to stop it.

From what I have read over the years about this, the law IS on the books...the issue is it was :
1. either not ratified
2. illegally ratified

so technically its not a law yet. So I kind of think(far from expert here) that a ratification is all thats needed?

There is a case of a man getting a case dismissed when his defense waas based on the rukes of the paperwork reduction act (someting about having valid OMB numbers and such)

so then why are all these people so upset about it and speaking of it as if it's not a law. if the government can prove it then why don't they. my concern is that they can just *poof* make a paper appear with the dates and words needed to make it legal without going through the proper procedures.

In a nutshellts an army of highly paid lawyers versus YOU and the judicial system is extremely biased and wont allow arguments based on the only way to prove your case. You are fighting the Federal Govt.

Google up tax protesters lawsuits and trials, you will see a definate no win situation, because thats how they want it *shrug* fair trial it ain't

But what I'm trying to say is they will turn the tables on us any minute now. All the protestors will be wrong because it will be legal because they just wrote the law up, signed it and said here it is.

The guts of the US Tax law is that citizens of the USA who made business inside the Country were tax exempt ( voluntary ), any multi national company or foreign company doing business in the continental US was prone to be taxed.

The fact is you are a defacto Fascist country ( as most western countries are ) because Companies control the Government through lobbying and funding because they have the financial clout to do so.

All this aside the working man ( Middle Class ) is the targeted demographic to tax for 2 reasons...1st is they constitute the majority of any western country and are a good resource to pull money from...2nd you cant have this group of people becoming too rich as you need the majority to contribute to your country.

Bottom line is just pay your taxes and don't shirk your responsibilities to the society that you live in.

Bottom line is just pay your taxes and don't shirk your responsibilities to the society that you live in.

Warning! The CIA is posting on ATS.

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips

Bottom line is just pay your taxes and don't shirk your responsibilities to the society that you live in.

Warning! The CIA is posting on ATS.

I can guarentee you that I am in no way offiliated with any organisations period, the point I am making is this....

Western Countries have infrastructure that requires fund's for such services like schools, Hospital's, Roads and Welfare which are in turn used by us ( its citizens ). When I was younger and more radical I was of the opinion screw paying taxes for the government to waste its legalized theft.

Think about a country that had solely Company funded infrastructure for a minute ??? you realise that we would live in a totally different world and the form of control would be so close to Fascism its scarey.

I chose to pay taxes but still hate the level that I have to pay but if everyone doesn't provide a certain percentile of their labour back to the community in the form of taxes the system we live under would fail.

Don't be selfish pay your dues.

I agree with your point, we do need to pay to support our communities. We do need to provide schools, hospitals, libraries, etc...with funding. The problem is that our government isn't spending this money wisely on those things. Instead we are paying for their thousand dollar dinners and Armani suits, not to mention a war that seems most do not support. Where are our voices in how this money is spent.

I feel the whole structure needs a reform. What if we paid local taxes to our own states to provide the specific funding we need then give the left overs to the government. What if there wasn't enough left over, well the government is already in debt, I'm sure Bush could print some money to help himself out!

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips

Bottom line is just pay your taxes and don't shirk your responsibilities to the society that you live in.

Warning! The CIA is posting on ATS.

I don't care if he is CIA or not. The Federal Income Tax is bogus. I wrote my senator and got the information to prove it. You all can do the same.

However, to clarify my position. Not all taxes are bogus. You must take into consideration excise taxes, direct taxes, apportioned taxes, sales tax, STATE taxes, etc. etc.

Write to your Congresspersons and "demand" the proof that the Federal Income Tax Law exists, and don't be surprised if they can't send you a paper stating, "The Federal Income Tax Law is in Fact a Law."




The information I was given is from the CRS (Congressional Research Service) Website. The booklet is "Order Code 97-59 A", Frequently Asked Questions Concerning the Federal Income Tax: Updated January 7, 2005.

I have looked online for this same publication, however to my dismay, there is no record of it. I'll keep looking in my spare time and see if I can post a link to it.

From:Givemeliberty.org

This is basically the same thing, except the copy I got was updated Jan. 7, 2005.


I'll keep looking.

Originally posted by Infoholic
I don't care if he is CIA or not. The Federal Income Tax is bogus. I wrote my senator and got the information to prove it. You all can do the same.

Well Im not CIA so stop being paranoid, I guess you would rather see the USA go down the toilet just so you can excersize your right's to not pay your fair share of taxes ? The funny thing is that once all this "not ratified" in all US States, I bet you are going to have to pay alot higher income tax to pay for the lawyers and courts ect...HAHAHAHAHAH.

Originally posted by mazzroth
Well Im not CIA so stop being paranoid,

1st - As earlier stated, I don't care if you are or not. Reread my post.

Originally posted by mazzroth
I guess you would rather see the USA go down the toilet just so you can excersize your right's to not pay your fair share of taxes ?

2nd - The USA would not go down the toilet if the Federal Income Tax was not paid. 80% of the Federal Income Tax is solely paid as interest to the Federal Reserve.

3rd - Again, reread my post. There's more taxes that we already pay, of which are completely legit, that would easily maintain the Nation. And yes, these would be our "fair share" in taxes, by far.

Originally posted by mazzroth
The funny thing is that once all this "not ratified" in all US States,

4th - The funny thing is your post doesn't appear to be a complete idea.

Originally posted by mazzroth
I bet you are going to have to pay alot higher income tax to pay for the lawyers and courts ect...HAHAHAHAHAH.

5th - You pay fees for lawyers and courts, not income taxes.

Well tax season has come. How many of you will file and not pay the federal income tax? Do you feel that stong to not pay and accept the consequences? Lastly, how many people would be needed to not pay n order for the gov't to realise that they indeed need to make it a legit law or abolish the unratified law already in place? Talk to your friends and neighbors and see what they say and or do. I would love to not pay more tax after thay've taken all year. I basically save to pay the gov't at the end of every year.

Here's an intersting arcticle from the ny times that I found.

www.apfn.org...

Started new thread about this arcticle. Here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 28-1-2007 by I See You]

[edit on 28-1-2007 by I See You]

I understand that we are "required" to pay taxes, not by law, but under threat of criminal prosecution (go ahead and parse that out and get back to me).

The truth about income tax law not being a law has been known for some time.

It has been challenged, in particular, recently if I recall correctly, by an individual who advised a small group of people of the absence of a law requiring payment of this tax.

Criminal charges were leveled against some of those individuals for refusing to pay this tax, and possibly against the person advising them.

It should strike anyone now aware of this fact as criminal and grossly unjust to prosecute an individual for breaking a law that does not exist.

To me, if this were to be made into a law, would that mean that we would be paid back the monies we paid prior to it becoming a law, or would it be retroactive (common sense indicates the latter)?

A bigger question would be, would it be signed into law, or would there be disagreement over this? To me, the law would cruise through, as the public servants passing the legislation rely on this little beauty as their bread and butter - or is that the case?

This was leading up to my next question, and that is, do we have an accounting of every penny that is collected through this "illegally" levied income tax?

Infoholic said (third post, bottom half pg 1),

2nd - The USA would not go down the toilet if the Federal Income Tax was not paid. 80% of the Federal Income Tax is solely paid as interest to the Federal Reserve.

Do you have documentation to back this up? As I understand it, there does not exist a formal accounting of how these income taxes are spent.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but my understanding is that we have a tax that we are not only being forced to pay under fear of criminal prosecution, even though no law exists on the books, and that we are not entitled to an accounting of how these taxes are used.

If anyone can provide evidence to the contrary I'd appreciate it.

Until then, the whole situation really needs to be addressed, and the public paying these monies need to be made aware of how that ("our") money is being used.

We don't want to be assured it's going to schools either. We want to see receipts.



[edit on 28-1-2007 by OnTheDeck]

[edit on 28-1-2007 by OnTheDeck]

Originally posted by mazzroth
Western Countries have infrastructure that requires fund's for such services like schools, Hospital's, Roads and Welfare which are in turn used by us ( its citizens ).

Yes!

I wonder if the ones protesting ever lived through the times before we had tax money helping folks with things like welfare. I wasn't around in the times when the government supported roads, but I understand that roads fell into disrepair and the only decent roads around were company owned toll roads. While I think it's a great idea to put up a toll booth in front of my house and charge people for using the street in front of my house, I don't think it's a workable thing.

And the toll roads got terribly expensive back in those days.

Think about a country that had solely Company funded infrastructure for a minute ??? you realise that we would live in a totally different world and the form of control would be so close to Fascism its scarey.

Worse yet, as we see elsewhere, things would be under the control of companies, corporations, and warlords. There wouldn't be a single fee for things but a zillion different fees. If you think taxes are expensive, you should try paying monopolies and warlords!

Don't be selfish pay your dues.

Exactly!

I have spent a couple hours online searching for "different types of taxes" that we pay in the United States. The best result I could find was the one I was wanting to stay away from, since it's "source" is entered by anyone and everyone, and could be easily manipulated by whomever was entering the information, thus making it, IMO, an unreliable source. Biased, if you will.

Go here for a list of different types of taxes paid in the US with few examples of each

Originally posted by I See You
Well tax season has come. How many of you will file and not pay the federal income tax? Do you feel that stong to not pay and accept the consequences? Lastly, how many people would be needed to not pay n order for the gov't to realise that they indeed need to make it a legit law or abolish the unratified law already in place? Talk to your friends and neighbors and see what they say and or do. I would love to not pay more tax after thay've taken all year. I basically save to pay the gov't at the end of every year.

I will not file and pay the Federal Income Tax this year. After my Congressman was unable to provide proof of the law, why should I pay it? There are laws for paying other types of taxes, and there is proof for those laws, but why pay the Federal Income Tax if there is no law to back it up? Yes, I feel that strongly. To answer your question about how many people would it take?... That's easy. One. The first person that was able to prove there was no law, and refuse to pay for such reason, they immediately began the process of changing wordings to enable them to bamboozle the remainder of the general populous. Making it into a "legit law" or "ratifying" the current legislation or legislation changes will take a vote of Congress, of which the American populous is granted the right to know of said vote, through the Freedom of Information Act, and at which point there would be a lot of pissed off people to be finding out the true sham that the Federal Government has waged since 1913.

I See You, as far as your link to " Saying Income Tax Is Illegal,
Business Owners Quit Paying"... research the books. The Federal Income Tax is in fact a "Corporate Tax". Those businesses will get their come-upings.

Originally posted by OnTheDeck
I understand that we are "required" to pay taxes, not by law, but under threat of criminal prosecution (go ahead and parse that out and get back to me).

Pay close attention to your word, "THREAT". If you are scared, you won't stand up to them. They (the Federal Government, IRS, and the Federal Reserve) know this all too well. You (generalize) give up your freedoms and liberties in exchange for a false sense of security. Look at my signature.

Originally posted by OnTheDeck
Criminal charges were leveled against some of those individuals for refusing to pay this tax, and possibly against the person advising them.

It should strike anyone now aware of this fact as criminal and grossly unjust to prosecute an individual for breaking a law that does not exist.

Those charges were levied because the proof of the law not existing was not provided in those cases. There have been court cases of which evidence to prove the law is not a law, was denied the ability to be brought into court. Research those cases. I shouldn't have to do all the leg work for you. You need to find these things for yourself, that way you see 1st hand I'm not blowing smoke.

Originally posted by OnTheDeck
To me, if this were to be made into a law, would that mean that we would be paid back the monies we paid prior to it becoming a law, or would it be retroactive (common sense indicates the latter)?

Knowing full well it's only a matter of time before the American Populous comes aware of their fallacies, the Federal Government, IRS, and Federal Reserve have taken steps to prevent them from having to pay back those falsely paid tax dollars. I cannot for the life of me remember where that information is, but I'll gladly spend more time looking around to find it.

Originally posted by OnTheDeck
A bigger question would be, would it be signed into law, or would there be disagreement over this? To me, the law would cruise through, as the public servants passing the legislation rely on this little beauty as their bread and butter - or is that the case?

Hypothetically, the general populous learns that they do not, nor ever did, have to pay a Federal Income Tax. That meant, $1,000 per month more cash in your pocket. How many people would that please? Would you agree to continue to pay this tax?

Originally posted by OnTheDeck
This was leading up to my next question, and that is, do we have an accounting of every penny that is collected through this "illegally" levied income tax?

Doesn't matter. As I stated above, they're not liable to pay it back. It's kinda of a forced, "Take it as a learned experience."

Originally posted by Indellkoffer

Originally posted by mazzroth
Western Countries have infrastructure that requires fund's for such services like schools, Hospital's, Roads and Welfare which are in turn used by us ( its citizens ).

Yes!

Yes. Those are called excise taxes, direct taxes, State Income Taxes, sales taxes, etc. etc. The Federal Income Tax does not pay for those services.

Originally posted by Indellkoffer
Worse yet, as we see elsewhere, things would be under the control of companies, corporations, and warlords. There wouldn't be a single fee for things but a zillion different fees. If you think taxes are expensive, you should try paying monopolies and warlords!

That would mean you weren't living in America.

Originally posted by Indellkoffer

Don't be selfish pay your dues.

Exactly!

Think you might want to research a bit more into what all the different type of taxes there are. No one has been encouraged to "Stop Paying Taxes" in general. No one has questioned the legality of State Income Taxes, have they? No one has questioned sales tax, cigarette tax, gasoline tax, any other stinkin form of tax... have they? The focus is the Federal Income Tax. There is a difference.


Paying tax on the cigarettes I buy, is paying my due. Paying the tax on the gasoline I burn in my SUV, to provide "road maintenance funds", is paying my due. Paying my State Income Tax to fund local schools, is paying my dues. Paying tax on my home (Personal Property Tax), to provide local miscellaneous funding, is paying my dues. Paying sales tax on good purchased at the local grocery store, to provide more funding for state needs, is paying my dues.

Need I go on with more examples?

I sincerely apologize for not finishing my posts in order. I skipped over the last half of OnTheDeck's post.

Originally posted by OnTheDeck

2nd - The USA would not go down the toilet if the Federal Income Tax was not paid. 80% of the Federal Income Tax is solely paid as interest to the Federal Reserve.

Do you have documentation to back this up? As I understand it, there does not exist a formal accounting of how these income taxes are spent.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but my understanding is that we have a tax that we are not only being forced to pay under fear of criminal prosecution, even though no law exists on the books, and that we are not entitled to an accounting of how these taxes are used.

You can go here: www.mof.go.jp... to see a guesstimate of how our tax dollars are spent, by category. To my surprise ( ), there's nothing on the IRS Website.



And as well, here's another interesting link as found on another ATS thread.
thebudgetgraph.com...

Sorry, it's the best I can do with the tools provided (or not provided).

[edit on 1/28/2007 by Infoholic]