U.N. Assembly Condemns Holocaust Denials

The U.N. General Assembly adopted a resolution on Friday condemning denials of the Holocaust, weeks after Iran sponsored a meeting dominated by speakers questioning the extermination of 6 million Jews in World War Two.

The operative part of the resolution has only two paragraphs. It "condemns without any reservation any denial of the Holocaust" and "urges all member states unreservedly to reject any denial of the Holocaust as a historical event, either in full or in part, or any activities to this end."

Iran is not mentioned by name although the resolution is clearly aimed at a Tehran conference convened in December by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Most speakers expressed doubt about the Nazis' mass extermination of Jews.


SOURCE:
news.Yahoo.com

I have to say I'm surprised the U.N. had'nt already had something like this passed, consdering how overtly friendly the U.N. was to Israel in the beginning of it's nationhood.

I am opposed ot this, simply because it could strengthen the laws in
some countries, adn create them in countries that do not have them
about denieing the holocaust happened.

Personally I don't doubt the holocaust happened, though I think the
number of Jewish individuals who died was more around 3-4million,
oppsed to the 6.5million that is currently claimed.


Comments, Opinions?


EDIT:
Spelling.

[edit on 1/26/2007 by iori_komei]

Personayyl I don't doubt the holocaust happened, though I think the
number of Jewish individuals who died was more around 3-4million,
oppsed to the 6.5million that is currently claimed.

Congratulations, you are a holocaust denier. Holocaust deniers reject that it happened at all, or also that it was anywhere near 6 million.

Since I know you are a resonable person, how about explaining why you think that it was 3-4 million jews instead of around 6?


As far as the UN, I think it really says something that the General Assembly agreed to this statement. It shows just how little support their is for the holocaust denial position. As far as this UN statement being used to enforce existing holocaust denial laws, I don't think that the people that are denying the holocaust even recognize the UN anyway, so what do they care?

Most countries that have holocaust denial laws were either directly controlled by the nazis, like germany, or were invovled in the fight against nazism, like Australia, and want to suppress Nazism. Correctly, they recnogize that holocaust denial is really nothing more than a revival of nazism, ESPECIALLY in places like Germany.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Personayyl I don't doubt the holocaust happened, though I think the
number of Jewish individuals who died was more around 3-4million,
oppsed to the 6.5million that is currently claimed.

Congratulations, you are a holocaust denier. Holocaust deniers reject that it happened at all, or also that it was anywhere near 6 million.

Since I know you are a resonable person, how about explaining why you think that it was 3-4 million jews instead of around 6?


As far as the UN, I think it really says something that the General Assembly agreed to this statement. It shows just how little support their is for the holocaust denial position. As far as this UN statement being used to enforce existing holocaust denial laws, I don't think that the people that are denying the holocaust even recognize the UN anyway, so what do they care?

Most countries that have holocaust denial laws were either directly controlled by the nazis, like germany, or were invovled in the fight against nazism, like Australia, and want to suppress Nazism. Correctly, they recnogize that holocaust denial is really nothing more than a revival of nazism, ESPECIALLY in places like Germany.

I don't see how labeling someone a holocaust denier does anything for the argument except to stick a finger at them and poke. History is always written by the groups in power. A lot of the peoples involved in positions of power not in the main spotlight still have influence over our every day essential living needs and luxuries. How do you know the number is not lower than or close to 6.5 million?

Is history truly objective and if so what defines its' objectivity? I find nothing wrong with denying the holocaust, it's a right granted by our freedom of opinion is it not? Since when were certain things exempt from this universal and inalienable law? Perhaps since certain Jewish identities have used it as a get out of jail free card for decades while they commit their own holocaust in Palestine. The U.N assembly made a grave mistake in regressing from their own universal laws here.

Luxifero

I dont deny the holocaust.

but im certain the number they give is not correct.

WEther it be by a lot, or by a little amount,

I am allowed to question the exact figure released, but at the same time achnowledge that a haneous act was committed.

For you to label someone that doesnt believe the figure a denier is wrong.
They do not DENY it happened, but like every other numerical value in the ww2 era, exact numbers were often blurred.

I mean, if your murdering millions upon millions of people.. it becomes hard to keep up with every single value.

I am one who have actually looked into this and not just read newspapers. Newspapers reminds us all each X number of months about the Holocaust, they are paid to print these artickles. What is it called when things are repeated over and over again? Oh yes, brainwashing.
I tell you all the truth; not one newspaper nor any TV stations have ever investigated wheter there were gas chambers. They have only one thing; opinions that have never been proved.

I demand that scientific method must be used on the gassing claims. The revisionists have used this and that is why they say there were no gas chambers. There were prison camps and working camps, but not death camps in Germany. When nations implement the Holocaust denial law they make it illegal to produce scientific proof of what really happened in the camps.

What is required to belive there were gassed millions of people? You must really belive;
* that most people are evil who like to murder others.
* that war propaganda is real facts.
* that jews are always honest, they have no self-interests, they have no criminals among them.
* that the state Israel did the right thing when they demanded reparations from Germany in the 1950's, despite the fact that Israel did not exist before several years after WWII.
* that the number of 6 million jews are right, despite the fact that this number was invented by a self-interest jewsh group that used a system that did not take into account all the jews who moved out of europe during the 1930's, 40' and 50's. They used a system that said that jews moving away = dead jews. This is the number the Israel state used when they demanded reparations from Germany.
* the money Israel and jewish groups have got their hands on from european banks actually did go to the jews who suffered loss under WWII, and not just to a select few. After all, jews can't swindle anybody.
* that noone investigated the rumors of gassed jews right after the WWII ended in europe. In fact USA and UK both investigated these rumors and after studying the camps it was evident that there never had been any gaschambers anywhere. Both USA and UK have documents that debunks the war rumor of gas chambers. This leads me to the last ;
* that noone profits from keeping the gas chamber war rumor alive. Well, there is.

I support scientific method and that means I am a 'Holocaust denier'. I find it horrifying that people want to belive that the german people actually gassed 6 million (or even only 3 or 4 million) people. Documents show that 893 000 jews died because of thypus and other diseases, and these diseases were a direct result of Allied bombings. With other word, those responsible for the dead jews were UK and US bombing expeditions. Not the Germans. But Germany lost the war and thus the winner blames whomever suits them...
Those who really suffered under German Dictatorship were the germans themselfs in the form of political opponents who were hanged and shot.
Can you all wake up from the Brainwashing idea that the Holocaust Industry promotes?

The number of people died during the Holocaust is irrelevant. However, I'd rather see the UN condemning Turkey's denial of the Armenian Holocaust, but who cares about that?

[edit on 27-1-2007 by Mdv2]

Reverse of what the poster above said.

If that is what you consider the "scientific method" or that the USA and the UK killed the Jerws in Europe then you took the placebo in this experiment. Your results will be part of the explaination, but proven to be the "Iranian" view. In other words anything but Jewish.

Wow! I am never ceased to be amazed on this website. That I have been programed and brainwashed, but all far fetched, or racist, and even well written posts with great grammar with obvious agenda are always the truth.

Did the 2 to 5 million POW's from Russia killed by the Germans also happen because of the USA, UK and Jewish conspiracy? I need a sceintific method for that too I guess.

Not only Jews were killed by the Germans. Many other religons and ethnic backgrounds were killed.

Yep, most of us were not there. But looking at evidence on both sides leave he to think this did happen. It was not an only Jewish event. It was a more of a German plan of getting rid of people they did not want around.

To think Germany did not liquidate millions of lives not on the battlefield behind thier lines is not very scientific at all in my opinion.

holocaust denier implys the person denys it ever happened, which in almost all cases is never true, its a minipulation of words to make you dislike these 'deniers'.

It is fairly obvious the historical facts of the holocaust have been twisted over the years for one thing the holocaust was not about the Jews, the holocaust happened to get rid of the minority groups in Germany and the countries he took over, it just so happened there were a lot more Jews. It does sadden me to know that when people think of the holocaust most take no consideration for all the other people who died except the Jews.

As for the official number it is also a fairly obvious fact that it isn't and never will be correct, it may be less or it may even be more, its unlikely we will ever really know.

But what saddens me the most is even though we live in a country of democracy and (apparent) free speech we are denied the right to discuss or challenge facts of the holocaust.

Originally posted by Jiffy
Then ignore the poking.

How do you know the number is not lower than or close to 6.5 million?

Please present the evidence that it is not. If we're only talking about crass speculation that 'powerful people that may have wanted to may have altered the records', then thats hardly 'historical research', which is what some claim holocaust denial to be.

Thats the problem with holocaust denial, its advocates pretend that its 'alternative, but valid, historical research'. Its NOT research, there is no evidence for it, its baseless propaganda.

luxifero
Is history truly objective and if so what defines its' objectivity?

THere's a big different between a fallible human being studying the evidence and trying to come up with a reasonalb, albeit subjective/non-objective accounting of history, and holocaust deniers making crap up.

Since when were certain things exempt from this universal and inalienable law?

Since forever. The Nazi party itself is illegal in germany, for pretty obvious reasons. Lots of 'ideas' are illegal, lots of 'speech' can and should get you arrested. In germany at least, its perfectly sensible to crack down on holocaust deniers, who are not historical researchers, but rather nazi propagandists.

Perhaps since certain Jewish identities have used it as a get out of jail free card for decades while they commit their own holocaust in Palestine.

Irrelevant.

The U.N assembly made a grave mistake in regressing from their own universal laws here.

They've comdeming the lies of nazi propagandists, they havent' even made anything illegal.

Agit8dChop
I dont deny the holocaust. but im certain the number they give is not correct.

Prove it.

For you to label someone that doesnt believe the figure a denier is wrong.

There is no 'right or wrong' on the matter, most people, rather reasonably, include people who say that only around 4 million jews died in WWII as holocaust deniers. Even the most ardent holocaust deniers, who will still say that there wasn't any plan to exterminate the jews, will admit that millions died.

exact numbers were often blurred.

Clearly, if a person said 5.9999 million jews died in the holocaust, then they're not a holocaust denier. Lets not waste time on quibbles.

Ghaele
What is required to belive there were gassed millions of people?

Who says they were all gassed? The nazis killed the bulk of them through systematic overworking and starving, calculating just how many calories they need to be able to get X amount of work out of them before they collapse. They didn' gas ALL of them, and they certainly gased huge numbers of them, all as a plan to wipe them out of germany.

I support scientific method and that means I am a 'Holocaust denier'.

Rational historians who actually investigate the records using the 'scientific' methodology have shown that the holocaust did happen. It is flatly FALSE to say that 'holocaust denial' is a valid alternative historical reading.

Edn
holocaust denier implys the person denys it ever happened, which in almost all cases is never true, its a minipulation of words to make you dislike these 'deniers'.

They deny that the nazis were actively trying to exterminate the jews, they say that they put them into camps, but without the intention to kill them, and that a relatively small number actually died in the camps.

the holocaust was not about the Jews, the holocaust happened to get rid of the minority groups in Germany and the countries he took over, it just so happened there were a lot more Jews.

The jews were the primary target of the holocaust, nazi rhetoric clearly indicated that semitic peoples and cultures were inferior to german culture, that the jews were a threat as a people, and that the people will need to go through a terrible struggle to make its nation great. Lets not pretend for a SECOND that the nazis didn't hate the jews and want to get rid of them. The fact that they also hated the occultists, homosexuals, invalids, slavs, capitalists, gypsies, etc hardly dilutes that they hated the jews.

As for the official number it is also a fairly obvious fact that it isn't and never will be correct, it may be less or it may even be more, its unlikely we will ever really know.

The exact number is irrelevant. Of course we're not going to know the precise number, it'd only take the loss of a single record sheet to make the number inexact. It might be 5.98 million, itr might be 6.5 million, its certainly not 4 million, and it certainly wasn't 'an accident'.

But what saddens me the most is even though we live in a country of democracy and (apparent) free speech we are denied the right to discuss or challenge facts of the holocaust.

You live in Germany? Or the US? Because in the US, holocaust denial IS permited, indeed, being a member of the US Nazi Party is permited, but in Germany, for damned obvious reasons, its not.

THere's a big different between a fallible human being studying the evidence and trying to come up with a reasonalb, albeit subjective/non-objective accounting of history, and holocaust deniers making crap up.

Some of our history is just 'made up crap' you know? You'd be very surprised, and by our history, I don't mean that of only the western societies. Regardless, not all holocaust deniers are holocaust deniers perse; in fact, many of them are critical conspiracists that are easily lodged into under this umbrella. You're correct, humans are fallible, hence those that determined the exact particulates of the holocaust were also themselves and they too susceptible to their own subjective/non-objective interests.

Since forever. The Nazi party itself is illegal in germany, for pretty obvious reasons. Lots of 'ideas' are illegal, lots of 'speech' can and should get you arrested. In germany at least, its perfectly sensible to crack down on holocaust deniers, who are not historical researchers, but rather nazi propagandists.

You're associating holocaust deniers with Nazism. Grave mistake. These two are not inclusive of each other though one is the responsible for the other. We have seen a great number of non-Nazi issues responding critically to the holocaust over the decades. Lots of speech can get you arrested, fair, speech that can lead to genocides with far greater impacts than the holocaust itself; speech spawned out of the White House for example.

Irrelevant.

Perfectly relevant and factual; don't response so absolutely. Certain elements have used it as a get out of jail free card by and by.

They've comdeming the lies of nazi propagandists, they havent' even made anything illegal.

No, they've fallen to their knees to appease a holocaust among hundreds that have occurred the world over. For example as Mdv2 put forth, " I'd rather see the UN condemning Turkey's denial of the Armenian Holocaust, but who cares about that? "

But hey, that never happened and Clinton never supplied all those arms to Turkey so that they could viciously savage this minority, correct?

Deny this, and you're just as worse as these Nazi propagandists. Such a bastard way to formulate it, but as is evident, there is far too much bastardism in history.

Luxifero