33rd Degree Masons

I was wondering if there was a set limit on the number of 33rd Degree Masons there could be at any one given time?

For example, there are only x-number (12? 33?) members?

The Order of the Holy Sepulchre, although not Masonic has 12 Knights of the Collar - when one dies, another is appointed or elected.

I was wondering if there was something similar in the 33rd Degree?

Zhenyghi, KHS

It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as there is no one "supreme" governing body for the Scottish Rite.

I can get you the exact percentages but in the AASR (Southern Jurisdiction, USA) every other year certain 32nd Degree members are chosen to receive the K.C.C.H. (Knight Commander of the Court of Honor) and from the existing K.C.C.H.'s are chosen 33rd's. Again, I can't recall the percentage, but I do remember that more than TWICE the # members to receive the KCCH can be elected than can those elected to receive the 33rd Degree. Also to receive the KCCH is NOT a guarantee that one will ever receive the 33rd Degree.

The Southern Jurisdiction and (I believe) the Supreme Council of the Phillipines are the only two Scottish Rite bodies that give the KCCH honor, so, again, the rules vary in other jurisdictions.

Even though in comparison to the # of Scottish Rite Masons there are the 33rd Degree is rare, there are still several thousand 33rd Degree members.

When I received it in 2001 there were a almost 200 of us receiving the degree if I recall correctly..and a lot more becoming K.C.C.H's.


I forgot to answer your question. No. When a 33rd Degree member dies, another one is not automatically elected. When a 33rd Degree member who is an officer of the Supreme Council dies, he is replaced (by another existing 33rd Degree member) And not all offices in the Sup. Council are 33rds. When the current Archivist/Historian of the Southern Jurisdiction was appointed, he was a 32nd Degree K.C.C.H.


[edit on 24-1-2007 by Appak]

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
I was wondering if there was a set limit on the number of 33rd Degree Masons there could be at any one given time?

For example, there are only x-number (12? 33?) members?

Appak's post is correct. The number of 33rds is contingent upon the number of members in a particular Orient, or state. The exact regulations are laid down in the Constitution of the Supreme Council. The Sovereign Grand Inspector General may nominate X number of 32° KCCH members to receive the 33rd for every X number of KCCH's, and the same between the KCCH and the non-honorary 32°. I say "X number" because I don't recall the exact amount.

Originally posted by Appak
It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as there is no one "supreme" governing body for the Scottish Rite.

In England and Wales the 33rd is very limited, and only a couple of dozen or so people achieve it.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like worldwide there are hundreds or thousands of 33rd Degree Masons. I was under the mistaken impression that the numbers were much fewer; limited to heads of state, CEO's of major corporations, and the like.

Sounds like even a "common man" could eventually attain the 33rd Degree, if all requirements are met?..

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
Thanks for the info. Sounds like worldwide there are hundreds or thousands of 33rd Degree Masons. I was under the mistaken impression that the numbers were much fewer; limited to heads of state, CEO's of major corporations, and the like.

Yep. There's a BUNCH of us in the U.S. alone. Like Trinityman said, in the UK it's much rarer and that's because of the structure of their Supreme Council.

Sounds like even a "common man" could eventually attain the 33rd Degree, if all requirements are met?..

I'm about as common as they come. Family man w/ three (almost grown) kids, a wife, a dog named "Katie" and a goldfish with a name I can't pronounce (kids!)

why has the 33rd degree been isolated for such ridicule and suspicion. why not the 23rd or 18th degrees? repeatedly the 33rd is singled out for inspection. are clues as to why?

Originally posted by Stewart Lewis
why has the 33rd degree been isolated for such ridicule and suspicion. why not the 23rd or 18th degrees? repeatedly the 33rd is singled out for inspection. are clues as to why?

Likely because of the structure of the Scottish Rite (in the U.S.A., as noted before, it varies in other countries) But here, if a Master Mason (3rd Degree) petitions membership in the Scottish Rite, he'll get it. I suppose he could be rejected but know of no one who ever has been. That being said, upon becoming a Scottish Rite Mason he receives the 4th - 32nd Degrees, inclusive. In other words in the U.S.A. ALL Scottish Rite Masons are (at least) 32nd Degree members. There are no 11th or 16th or 21st Degree S.R. Masons.

The 33rd, however, is an honor bestowed upon 32nd Degree members for
various reasons at the descretion of the Supreme Council. There has been much criticism among members about certain persons (particularly politicians) who have at times been awarded the 33rd. Some say it's "advertising" some yell "conspiracy" The fact of the matter is, the 33rd Degree belongs to the Scottish Rite and they can confer it upon whomever they please. I'm taking the long way around saying that the general populous of Scottish Rite Masons are NOT the ones who elect the new 33rds...the 33rds do it.

I think that because it's rarely conferred (in comparison to the 4th-32nd Degrees anyway) and because it's the highest "numbered" Degree--note that I didn't say the "highest degree" --people think it holds more significance than it really does.

Another thing that probably feeds this is that many high-profile people have received it. People like Norman Vincent Peale, President Ford (upon both of whom be peace) Other political and religious leaders. But what people don't stop to realize is, like I said above, the 33rd is given for service. Not necessarily service to the Scottish Rite itself or to Masonry...service to the community, the country, perhaps the world. We're all about helping people through charity, etc. and people like Col. Harlan Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chicken fame and Dave Thomas of Wendy's Restaurants, were both VERY philanthropical individuals. They gave to the community. I don't know how active either of them were in Masonry itself...they were pretty busy men, but they were awarded the 33rd Degree and, personally, I think they deserved it.

Just my two cents.

sometimes colleges will bestow honorary degrees to people they wish to celebrate. Does Masonry do this?

I'm 22 and still a student in college. My father is a 32nd degree Mason. As a lot of other family members are active in the local Lodge. I remember this past summer I was asking him questions on Freemasonry. Finally he told me that he couldn't ask me to become a member. I had to ask a Mason. He then gave me about 20 books and asked me to read over them to learn what Freemasonry truely was. After reading the books I still have so many unanswered questions. I was recently giving forms to fill out and give to dad. Basic information regarding me joining. I already know I'l lhave enough signatures to join the Lodge. This past Christmas my grandfather was dropping hints time to time about me becoming a Mason. I'm really not sure what to do. I wen't through rush and everything at school, got bids from KA, Pike, and Sigma Epsalon. But didn't take them because of my busy schedule. I'm weary when it comes to secret societies. Even though I've always known I've had family members involved in them. Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do. ANY ADVICE.

Originally posted by endgame2
I'm weary when it comes to secret societies. Even though I've always known I've had family members involved in them. Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do. ANY ADVICE.

endgame2,

My advice to you is, if you're truely interested, wait until you're ready. If you're really NOT interested or you do NOT have time to get involved....pass on it. Masonry (or any fraternal or civic organization) will give back to you whatever you put into it....sometimes much more. But if you don't have a real interest or time, no sense becoming involved.

Things could change in a few years and you might find that you are interested or that you do have the time.

Originally posted by Stewart Lewis
sometimes colleges will bestow honorary degrees to people they wish to celebrate. Does Masonry do this?

Yes - it happened to Ronald Reagan. Read about ithere.

Okay, so from what I've been told by my uncle, and read here, is that there is a day or afternoon or weekend where you get all the degrees from 4-32? Is there any focus on each one for any length of time?

By comparison, I received the four KC degrees in three steps:

The fist degree one weekend afternoon in the Spring

The 2nd and 3rd Degree (Major Degree) together on the same day on a Fall morning, with an "intermission" between the 2nd and 3rd Degrees.

The 4th Degree (pretty much an all-day affair) one day in the Fall a few years back.

I know some councils perform all 3 degrees on the same date, presumeably with intermissions between each; I've never witnessed an induction which did all three on the same day like that.

Is the Scottish Rite conferring of 4-32 degrees similar in that respect? What about the York Rite and their "degrees"?

Zhenyghi,

I hate to sound repetitive (because I've said this about other questions in other posts)...but...it depends on the jurisdiction.

You see, unlike the Knights of Columbus there is no central authority in Freemasonry. The three Lodge Degrees (Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason) are controlled by a Grand Lodge. In the U.S.A. there are 51 Grand Lodges...one in each state and one in the District of Columbia. Each Grand Jurisdiction has it's own version of the ritual. In other words there is NO "Masonic Ritual" but numerous "Masonic Rituals"

The same holds true for the Scottish Rite. In the U.S.A. there are two Supreme Councils. Each have control of the 4th - 33rd Degrees (inclusive) In the Southern Jurisdiction (who's supreme council is in D.C.) the 4th-32nd can and often is conferred in one day. On such days only 5 degrees are required to be conferred in full. These are called the "Obligatory Degrees" They are the 4th, 14th, 18th, 30th and 32nd. The intermediate degrees may be conferred in full-form, in short-form or "communicated" Communicated means the basics of the degrees are simply explained.

Some Scottish Rite lodges (called "Valleys") have a week-end long conferral (called a "Reunion") and confer several of the degrees besides the five obligatory ones.

So, it's possible to be a 3rd Degree (Master Mason) on Friday evening, go to the Scottish Rite Valley for a Reunion on Saturday morning and that evening be a 32nd Degree Mason.

Makes you wonder how the conspiracy nuts think so much super-secret indoctrination can be bestowed so quickly, huh?

Originally posted by Appak
You see, unlike the Knights of Columbus there is no central authority in Freemasonry. The three Lodge Degrees (Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason) are controlled by a Grand Lodge. In the U.S.A. there are 51 Grand Lodges...one in each state and one in the District of Columbia. Each Grand Jurisdiction has it's own version of the ritual. In other words there is NO "Masonic Ritual" but numerous "Masonic Rituals"

The same holds true for the Scottish Rite. In the U.S.A. there are two Supreme Councils. Each have control of the 4th - 33rd Degrees (inclusive) In the Southern Jurisdiction (who's supreme council is in D.C.) the 4th-32nd can and often is conferred in one day. On such days only 5 degrees are required to be conferred in full. These are called the "Obligatory Degrees" They are the 4th, 14th, 18th, 30th and 32nd. The intermediate degrees may be conferred in full-form, in short-form or "communicated" Communicated means the basics of the degrees are simply explained.

Some Scottish Rite lodges (called "Valleys") have a week-end long conferral (called a "Reunion") and confer several of the degrees besides the five obligatory ones.

So, it's possible to be a 3rd Degree (Master Mason) on Friday evening, go to the Scottish Rite Valley for a Reunion on Saturday morning and that evening be a 32nd Degree Mason.

Makes you wonder how the conspiracy nuts think so much super-secret indoctrination can be bestowed so quickly, huh?

Great, now I'm just waiting for some conspiracy-theorist to say, "A-ha! The Knights of Columbus have one central authority!". Maybe that makes the KCs the real behind-the-scenes power?

Okay, if various jurisdictions do things differently, how then did you get your 4+ degrees conferred?

Personally, I think I'd rather not have condensed, abridged, summarized, or abbreviated degree ceremonies, even if it took me years to get to the 32nd Degree, but that's just me...

is there any correlation between the degrees of european masonry and the 32 or 322 we see in other groups?

Originally posted by Appak
I hate to sound repetitive (because I've said this about other questions in other posts)...but...it depends on the jurisdiction.

OK. England Scottish Rite 101:

1. It's not called the Scottish Rite, it's called the Ancient & Accepted Rite. Most other countries call it the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite, but quite strangely and nothing whatsoever to do with history , England appears to have dropped the Scottish bit. Go figure.

2. Colloqually known as Rose Croix, named after the 18th degree.

3. Members join at the 18th degree (hence (2) above) and get the 30th after going through the chair. It is the equivalent of Past Master. 5-10 years I guess.

4. 31st comes maybe 5-10 years after. It is the equivalent of Provincial Grand Rank.

5. A select few get the 32nd. It is the equivalent of Grand Rank

6. The leaders and past leaders of the A&A get the 33rd. It is as exclusive as it gets.

7. Only the 18th, 30th, 31st, 32nd and 33rd are worked.

8. Information Health Warning: I'm not in Rose Croix (nor am I ever likely to be)

Originally posted by Stewart Lewis
is there any correlation between the degrees of european masonry and the 32 or 322 we see in other groups?

Depends what other groups you are referring to. Many organizations and fraternities were founded by masons, and so naturally a lot of masonic tradition has percolated down through them.

However the 33 degrees of the Scottish Rite are not a symbolic number in itself, although many might fancifully claim there are 33 due to the years of our Lord on earth.

But that's just my opinion, and like I said, I'm not a member so consequently am somewhat less qualified to comment.

3x11= 33
i have seen evidence of masons dabbleing in numerology, not all, andn usually it was masons of 100-150 years ago. is there a correlation or am i reaching for the ungraspable. i will check my books, see what M. P. Hall has to say about it. brb with some info.

"..on may 31 1801, the supreme council was created in Charleston, and from that time we hear of a rite of thirty-three degrees, eight having been added to the twenty-five introduced by Morin, the last (33rd) being called Sovereign Grand Inspector-General."

and

"...the peculiar duty of thier mission is to teach and enlighten the brethren; to preserve charity; union, and fraternal love anoung them; to maintain regularity in the works of each degree, and to take care it is preserved by others; to cause the dogmas, doctrines, institutes, constitutions, statuets, and regulations of the order to be reverently regarded, and to preserve and defend them on every occasion; and finally, everywhere to occupy themselves in works of peace and mercy."

sound like decent folks to me.

source: Encyclopedia of Freemasonry
by Albert G. Mackey
& Charles T. McClenachan