Phil Schnider Debunked! I'm tired of the lies!

Have you guys ever heard of OFF TOPIC?

Edit: Posting moved to (hopefully) more appropriate thread:

See www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 16.2.2007 by yfxxx]

YFXXX,

We are trying to establish or disprove the claims of Phil Schnider in this thread.

If you have an Ax to grind with John Lear and his credibility, you're in the wrong forum. With all do respect, I suggest that you try John Lear's Forum

Tim

Originally posted by Thodeph
Have you guys ever heard of OFF TOPIC?

i was on topic , when i asked you to furnish your " best evidence " for Schnieders claims , and you ignored the opportunity to debate the issue

care to take up the challenge now ?

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
i was on topic , when i asked you to furnish your " best evidence " for Schnieders claims , and you ignored the opportunity to debate the issue

care to take up the challenge now ?

Grab a pillow old friend, you're going to be waiting a while! I'm still waiting for someone to show me why I should buy into the Phil Schnider story. I started this thread asking for that very thing, and I'm still waiting!

Tim

Originally posted by Ghost01
If you have an Ax to grind with John Lear and his credibility, you're in the wrong forum. With all do respect, I suggest that you try John Lear's Forum

I would like to, but I don't see a "new thread" option in John Lear's forum. How am I supposed to start a discussion there? Thanks!

Edit:
Forget the above. I moved the posting to an existing "General Purpose" (hopefully!) thread.

Regards
yf

[edit on 16.2.2007 by yfxxx]

Originally posted by johnlear
You mean you've declared yourself the winner of our debate and I didn't even get to present my argument?

That seems hardly fair. Can't you just let me at least present my side before you win?

For the the reply, see:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Regards
yf

As to Schneider's testimony, of course I can't prove it -- it relies on the experience of a personal career in a covert branch of government. The question is: does he appear to be credible. Although, I repeat, his story is hard to grasp, my gut feeling says yes. The existence of underground bases has been proven by others, so there must have been geologists at work there. Schneider says he was one of them, you say he's lying.

I wonder why, but I'm sure this thread hasn't presented anything but futile details in order to prove he's lying (or 'embellishing' -- which would mean the core of his proposal is genuine).

As to his death, I don't have to prove he was murdered, any genuine police detective can do that. The most lunatic proposition is the idea that he would have arranged his own death in order to attract attention. That's a tough one to prove I'd think, but do please have a shot at it. I'm sure you're a criminology expert.

Many should grow up and stop deceiving people, but Schneider isn't one of them. May he rest in peace.

Originally posted by Cobra1982
Bob Lazar has been debunked. I'd really like to see one of those topics.

Sorry I just saw this. Debunked by who? Who are this debunkers , what do they rapresent and who said they are reliable and trustable? Maybe you've read somebody saying that Bob Lazar doesn't exist, he never got a degree? Or that he never worked for X company or Y enterprise? And that makes him debunked? Gee with claimes like that you just prove your self to be totally out of this field. So I sugest you to hear/read more and to talk/write less.

P.s. In this board you have G. Knapp amazing interview. Read it and come up your self with an idea about Lazar. Stop selling the same old broken string about Lazar being debunked.

Originally posted by Thodeph

As to his death, I don't have to prove he was murdered, any genuine police detective can do that. The most lunatic proposition is the idea that he would have arranged his own death in order to attract attention.

Noone needs to prove this was a murder! I think the facts speak for themselves. Come on, who's ever heard of suicide by stangulation?

All that was ever in question was if his story was true. I'm warming up, but still have a lot of questions

Tim

Originally posted by gfad
Why would a geologist be working for Skunkworks?

Ummm gee I don't know... maybe something to do with tunneling into solid rock?

Underground Base - digging into rocks
Geology - study of rocks
Geologist - one who digs into rocks

I don't know about the rest of it... but generally all tunneling projects I know of, whether public or top secret require Geologists to tell them where its safe to dig.

:shk:

Originally posted by zorgon
Ummm gee I don't know... maybe something to do with tunneling into solid rock?

Underground Base - digging into rocks
Geology - study of rocks
Geologist - one who digs into rocks

I don't know about the rest of it... but generally all tunneling projects I know of, whether public or top secret require Geologists to tell them where its safe to dig.

Do you even know what Skunkworks is? Its the Lockheed Martin Advanced Development Programs. They build planes not underground bases.

When Skunkworks needed a base to test their new secret project, the U-2, they got Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Company to build them a base at Groom Lake. They didn't do it themselves.

Originally posted by gfad
Do you even know what Skunkworks is?

Do you?

Its the Lockheed Martin Advanced Development Programs. They build planes not underground bases.

They build more than planes. They build anti-grav powered vehicles that cold hardly be called "planes". And they build them in underground bases such as the one under Plant 42.

When Skunkworks needed a base to test their new secret project, the U-2, they got Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Company to build them a base at Groom Lake. They didn't do it themselves.

Actually they did a lot of the work themselves for instance both Fish and Tony cleared rocks off the area designated to be the runway. REECO didn't do that. Or did you know Fish and Tony, GFAD? I did.

Originally posted by johnlear
They build anti-grav powered vehicles that cold hardly be called "planes". And they build them in underground bases such as the one under Plant 42.

Not a single part of that sentence is true.

Originally posted by johnlear
Actually they did a lot of the work themselves for instance both Fish and Tony cleared rocks off the area designated to be the runway. REECO didn't do that. Or did you know Fish and Tony, GFAD? I did.

And did they need a geologist to help them do that John?

Originally posted by gfad

Originally posted by johnlear
They build anti-grav powered vehicles that cold hardly be called "planes". And they build them in underground bases such as the one under Plant 42.

Not a single part of that sentence is true.

GFAD, the signature line on each of my posts says:
"The above is my opinion and is intended to promote discussion. It is not represented as fact unless so stated."

Your signature contains no such statement. I would respectfully request that when you make a statement such as, "Not a single part of that sentence is true", that you qualify it by 'this is my opinion' or 'a friend at the skunk works told me this'. That way people won't get the impression that what you are saying is, indeed, fact. Because it is not. It is opinion and I would respectfully request that you make that clear.

Originally posted by johnlear
Actually they did a lot of the work themselves for instance both Fish and Tony cleared rocks off the area designated to be the runway. REECO didn't do that. Or did you know Fish and Tony, GFAD? I did.

And did they need a geologist to help them do that John?

No, the geologist and underground facility at Groom Lake were there a few years before the U-2 project. As a a matter of fact Lockheed had no idea that they had stumbled accidentally directly over an underground facility.

The whole U-2 and then A-12 and SR-71 plus numerous other secret projects accidentally provided cover for the underground facility which they knew nothing about. In 1987 or 1988 a small portion of the main runway collapsed into the underground facility. Pilots flying the the F-117A in and out of Groom had to land long to avoid the caved in portion of the runway.

A new runway was immediately planned and built slightly to the east and the west runway was closed.

Lets be sure your comments are represented as 'opinions' and not as 'facts' because they aren't. Respectfully.

Originally posted by johnlear
No, the geologist and underground facility at Groom Lake were there a few years before the U-2 project. As a a matter of fact Lockheed had no idea that they had stumbled accidentally directly over an underground facility.

Define Few: 5 years, 10 Years? What are we talking about?

My only grip about John Lear's statement is it contradicts our research on Groom Lake. When ATS researched Area 51 a few years back, we never found ANY evidence of this underground facility: No digging, No Blasting, No Transport of large quanities of Material from the area. We even looked for and b]FAILED to find evidence of caves or natural open spaces under the ground in that geographic region of Nevada!

I think we can all agree on a few basic facts:

1. To build anything underground, you need an open space in the ground to build in (even NORAD in Cheyenne Mountain required digging to build it).

2. When you Dig, you always wind up with dirt and/or rock coming out of the hole.

So, where did they put everything they pulled out of the ground to build this place?

Accidently sumbled onto a secret underground facility?

All secrect facilities have security, John. In fact, all military facilities have security.

Please explain how one accidently build's one secret base on the top of Another secret base?

Tim

[edit on 2/26/2007 by Ghost01]

Originally posted by Ghost01
Please explain how one accidently build's one secret base on the top of Another secret base?

Tim

Thanks very much for your post Tim. In answer to your question of how one builds a secret base on top of a secret base the answer is 'brick by brick'.

Thanks for your input.

Originally posted by yfxxxMr. John Lear seems to know really much about this one - exactly how many were built, which security procedures were applied, where they were deployed, etc. He must have had many informants, who were very willing to talk. Yet, on the other hand, he claims that everyone is soo honorable that they would never, ever talk about this F-19. Doesn't anybody see the very obvious contradiction in that?!

I see no contradiction in that at all... while there is no talk to outsiders, those on the inside will talk amongst themselves...but even that withing limits. I do not have anywhere near the contacts that John has gathered in his career, but living in Las Vegas and my work in the security industry has shown me many things outsiders never see... and many times people at "work" will hint at something... even point you in the right direction, without out right saying anything that would make them violate national security. Several friends of mine are highly placed and they do not even consider talking to their spouses and most family members and friends are smart enough not to ask.

And the fastest way to stop even getting hints... is to start asking for direct answers...

As to that Sea Shadow... that's one interesting vessel...Considering they hid that one for 10 years, makes you wonder what they replaced it with

I have some really cool shots of it to...

Seems I was there when they declassified it...








And for those of you who want a close and personal view of Area 51...

Forget Google Earth (sounds like baby banter]

IKONOS RULES You can read the license plates on the cars (well if you pay LOL)

AREA 51 IKONOS VIEW



[edit on 26-2-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Ghost01

I think we can all agree on a few basic facts:

1. To build anything underground, you need an open space in the ground to build in .

Ummm No... Huge tunnel boring machines can be started from many miles away from the actual site.... They used these machines to dig a tunnel under the English Channel....

Here is one that was used at Cheyenne Mountain...


United States Air Force tunnel boring machine at Little Skull Mountain, Nevada, December 1982. There are many rumors of secret military tunnels in the United States. (Source: photo from U.S. Department of Energy.)

Its Nuclear Powered..

Here is how they work... how the soil is removed back down a conveyor to the point the tunnel was started at. So while people are watching Area 51 for digging, they could be hauling the dirt away 10 miles or more from the site...

BTW this one is for sale.. Need to dig for Aliens? or build your own base? Then here is your answer..



BORING MACHINE FOR SALE

2. When you Dig, you always wind up with dirt and/or rock coming out of the hole.

Ummmm No... Kinda covered this above but I will add this...

This is a $13 million tunnel boring machine (TBM) used for tunneling at the Nevada Test Site. (Remember that Area 51 is part of the test site.) Many other types of TBMs are used by many govt. agencies, including the "nuclear powered TBM" that melts solid rock and leaves behind glass-like walls. Most tunneling activity is under military installations and all information is highly restricted. Former employees of said facilities have surfaced over the years to talk of massive underground installations in places like Area 51, Northrop Facility in Antelope Valley, Ca.(rumored to have 42 levels), and the Lockheed installation near Edwards, Ca.

SOURCE

Please explain how one accidently build's one secret base on the top of Another secret base?

LOL that one is simple.... Every spook agency in the US works very hard at jealously keeping secrets from each other. In fact this practice is so well known that you find Hollywood making fun of it in movies and TV shows.

But I would have loved to see the expressions on their faces as they ran into each others secret project... that would be priceless!!! Hey I want the movie rights to that one!!

[edit on 26-2-2007 by zorgon]

It's amazing how few Phil Schneiders there actually are until you look at the level of compartmentalization and 'need to know' security codes.

On the other hand, it's equally stunning how employees blindly trust the virtues of the project they're working on, while it may turn out to be an outright evil one. Recruiters go for the most docile characters before they let them in to the secrets.