Black lodge vs White lodge

Can someone please explain the difference between the two lodges for me? What is each and how do they differ? Is it possible that instead of attacking freemasonry as a whole, as most critics do, we should instead focus on the black lodge as the perpetrators of the new world order?

Also, I read somewhere that there are actually higher degrees than the 33rd(but they are officially unacknowledged)! Is this true? Is there a secret ceremony/ritual after the 33rd degree where someone is given a bible and then asked how they feel about it?:

Let the thoughts roll

[edit on 20/1/07 by SkepticGreek74]

Black/White Lodges:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Prince Hall:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Mod Note: ATS Search – Please Use This Link.


[edit on 20/1/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Although my thread may seem repetitive in relation to the links you provided I think you have misunderstood the context of my original post.

I am not really interested in "theological interpretations" of black and white lodges. I am only interested in their relation(if there is any) to the new world order! In other words, is the black lodge(assuming the white lodge is not) controlling the world behind the scenes by influencing the Bilderburg group, Trilateral commission, and other such elite "think tanks"?

I read that former president and cia director george bush was a 42 degree mason! Of course, I will probably be made to look like a fool since 33+ degrees don't "officially" exist just like unacknowledged sap's dont exist either but this is a conspiracy forum and if I didn't believe in conspiracies I wouldn't be here!

Also, what about the 33rd degree ceremony I posted earlier? Can anyone aknowledge or relate to this?

PS>I think the moderator who provided the above links intentionally misinterpreted my whole post to suit his debunking agenda

How about first prove there is such a lodge and I believe those links were to sites arguing such a lodge's existence. I doubt such a lodge exists.

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
I read that former president and cia director george bush was a 42 degree mason! Of course, I will probably be made to look like a fool since 33+ degrees don't "officially" exist ...

Actually your fears were realized the moment you bought into the claim that George Bush (pick a Bush, any Bush...) is/was a Freemason... None of the have, are, or will be. Skull & Bones yes... Freemasonry no.

The Sublime Degree of Master Mason, or the Third Degree is the highest Degree in Freemasonry.

PS>I think the moderator who provided the above links intentionally misinterpreted my whole post to suit his debunking agenda

Actually, I intentionally represented your post to reflect your lack of due diligence.

Another shortcoming would be the lack of any reference to the existence of "Black" or "White" Lodges... Perhaps you could prevent any more "misunderstandings" by providing something to substantiate your theory?

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
I am not really interested in "theological interpretations" of black and white lodges. I am only interested in their relation(if there is any) to the new world order! In other words, is the black lodge(assuming the white lodge is not) controlling the world behind the scenes by influencing the Bilderburg group, Trilateral commission, and other such elite "think tanks"?

As mentioned in this thread...:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

...the Black Lodge mainly works through, in the mundane world, political Zionism, international banking, etc.


The groups you mention certainly don't have the best interest(Compassion) of our Buddha Nature in mind.


The Skull & Bones Society is unquestioniably a Black Lodge.


Though I'd imagine that the White Lodge has a few key-members here and there in the political arena, who, although having to compromise in certain ways perhaps, are doing whatever they can in order to ease the suffering of Sentient Beings.

Francis Bacon, St. Germain, Master M:.(Morya, Moira) and others, are said to be involved in politics, and have attained the Elixir of Long Life:

www.ageac.org...

...The psychic aggregates are disintegrated with his death and after lowering the body to the tomb, he resuscitates after three days. These three days are also allegorical, after those three days the Son of the Man goes through Three Great Purifications; it is dead until the last inhuman element that there was inside him.

For that reason it is said that the Son of the Man has died in himself, has killed the death, because the death can only be killed with the death; afterwards, the Son of the Man must resuscitate with the physical body. Then he is a Resurrected Master, has the elixir of long life, he is a true King of Nature according to the Order of Melchizedek. Then we can exclaim like the apostle Saint Paul: "Death is swallowed up in victory. Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?" (I Corinthians 15: 53-55).

So that the important thing is that He manages to redeem himself; when He resuscitates, then the Soul resuscitates in Him. All our psychic and spiritual principles resuscitate in Him and One in Him.

It is necessary to understand that He is our inner authentic Saver, our intimate particular Jesus-Christ...

But most Resurrected Masters of the Solar Circle of Humanity are said to work mostly in the Internal Worlds, many living in Shamballah.

(And no, Shamballah isn't "just some "New Age" myth".

Study the actual Kalachakra Tantra if you don't believe me.)





The Nazis and Skull & Bones are said to have actually assassinated two Adepts of the White Lodge:

Manly P. Hall's rules for psychic protection

Black is worn by priests in some sects Nuns as well,, I,.ve heard that when you wear black it invites others to let loose [confession,s] used in fumerals and is generally related to the planet Saturn . Does anybody know how Mr. Hall died since we are talking about self defence WE recall someone of his stature was murdered by a negative Individual Si or no .

Google Search

...His(Manly P. Hall) quest to protect it from falling into the wrong hands cost him his life, because he was strangled to death by two members of the Skull and Bones Society - Morgan Brandt and Daniel Fritz...

From Alexander Berzin, a translator of Tibetan Buddhist writings(including H.H. the Dalai Lama's)

Nazi Suppression of Rival Occult Groups

During the first half of the 1920s, a violent rivalry took place among the Occult Societies and Secret Lodges in Germany. In 1925, for example, Rudolf Steiner, the founder of the Anthroposophical movement, was found murdered. Many suspected that the Thule Society had ordered his assassination. In later years, Hitler continued the persecution of Anthroposophists, Theosophists, Freemasons, and Rosicrucians. Various scholars ascribe this policy to Hitler’s wish to eliminate any occult rivals to his rule...

Not that the sources from this Google Search link are totally reliable.

Just to show a few sources about Manly P. Hall's supposed assassination.....





[edit on 20-1-2007 by Tamahu]

Actually your fears were realized the moment you bought into the claim that George Bush (pick a Bush, any Bush...) is/was a Freemason... None of the have, are, or will be. Skull & Bones yes... Freemasonry no.

Really? If this is the case then why do so many conspiratory authors have a different opinion? Do a little research on the net and maybe you will change your mind!

The Sublime Degree of Master Mason, or the Third Degree is the highest Degree in Freemasonry.

[sarcastic] Really? I thought 33 was officially the highest degree! [/sarcastic]

Actually, I intentionally represented your post to reflect your lack of due diligence.

With respect to what? I don't understand your point!

Another shortcoming would be the lack of any reference to the existence of "Black" or "White" Lodges... Perhaps you could prevent any more "misunderstandings" by providing something to substantiate your theory?

To be honest with you "sir" I don't remember exactly where I read it but if you do a little searching on other conspiracy sites(and there many)perhaps you will see my point!

[edit on 20/1/07 by SkepticGreek74]

I must agree, there is no 33 degrees in Freemasonry - you have to go outside Freemasonry to go past the 3rd degree.

How comforting it must be for people to think in such (literally) black and white terms! The "everything that offends me or I think is bad surely belongs to the Black Lodge", or "everything that I find right and good is of the White Lodge" mindset! How childish as well! As most people realize, there is more grey in the world than black or white, and as was pointed out these lodges are mythos, allegories, fairytales*

Yes of course societies exist, but to think that they pay homage to a mythical lodge is as ludicrous as Blavantskys overtly racists ravings

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
Can someone please explain the difference between the two lodges for me? What is each and how do they differ? Is it possible that instead of attacking freemasonry as a whole, as most critics do, we should instead focus on the black lodge as the perpetrators of the new world order?

The terms "White Lodge" and "Black Lodge" were popularized by the British occultist Aleister Crowley. The terms have nothing to do with Freemasonry or a new world order.

According to Crowley, the "White Lodge" are those people who have a true understanding of their own nature (as well as that of others). In Crowley's view, this sort of Enlightenment was attainable in its highest form through Thelema, but available in lesser extent through Taoism and Buddhism.

Crowley's idea of "Black Lodge" was those people who did not understand the true nature of reality, and substituted fairy tales. He believed that this was typical of Christianity and western religion, and often used the terms "Black Lodge" and "Christianity" interchangeably.

Also, I read somewhere that there are actually higher degrees than the 33rd(but they are officially unacknowledged)! Is this true? Is there a secret ceremony/ritual after the 33rd degree where someone is given a bible and then asked how they feel about it?:

No. In Freemasonry it doesn't matter how individual members feel about the Bible, since men of all different religions can be admitted.

The 33 degrees are only for the Scottish Rite. Other Masonic Rites have different degrees.

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74


Really? If this is the case then why do so many conspiratory authors have a different opinion? Do a little research on the net and maybe you will change your mind!

Anybody can write any old junk and put it on the net. The fact of the matter is that 15 Presidents of the United States have been Masons. There has not been a President who was a Mason since Gerald Ford. Several Masons have ran unsuccessfully for President since that time, including Republican Bob Dole and Democrats John Glenn and Al Sharpton.

Really? I thought 33 was officially the highest degree!

No, the Third is. After reaching the Third, a Mason can join one of the Rites, which offer additional degrees. But these degrees are additional, not "higher" than the Third.

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74

Actually your fears were realized the moment you bought into the claim that George Bush (pick a Bush, any Bush...) is/was a Freemason... None of the have, are, or will be. Skull & Bones yes... Freemasonry no.

Really? If this is the case then why do so many conspiratory authors have a different opinion? Do a little research on the net and maybe you will change your mind!

Plain and simple; many (read: "most") conspiratory authors lie to suit their own needs and prey upon the weak-minded.

In this country (U.S.A.) membership in the Masonic fraternity is not a "secret." Most of us wear a Masonic ring or tie-tack or have a Masonic emblem on our automobile. I've worn a Masonic ring since I became a Master Mason over 25 years ago. Numerous famous people (including several former Presidents) were and are Freemasons and the living ones are regularly featured in Masonic publications...such as The Scottish Rite Journal.

www.scottishrite.org...

The last President who was a Freemason (33rd Degree member of the Scottish Rite, I might add) was Gerald R. Ford (upon whom be peace).

If the present President or the former President Bush were Freemasons there'd be TONS of Masonic articles written (by actual Freemasons) about them. Regardless of one's political views, a seated President who's a Mason is a BIG deal to us. Why would we hide the membership of someone in such an important posistion?

As to your suggestion of doing a little research on the web, I suggest you learn to do legitimate research...don't just rely on what GOOGLE conjures up for you.

The Bush boys....they' ain't Masons. As Moderator and Freemason Mirthful Me said...they never have been. It's not rumor...it's fact.

As for degrees beyond the 33rd and your question about the secret ceremony where they (whomever "they" might be) handing a 33rd a Bible and asking what he thinks about it, that's a new one on me and I'm on the 33rd Degree team who initiates the new guys in my Scottish Rite center.
If such a thing exists it's HIGHLY secret because they've NEVER asked me to do so.

'course that begs a question. If they keep it a secret from 33rd Degree members, how is it that YOU have heard of it?

...curiouser and curiouser

Originally posted by Tamahu


Just to show a few sources about Manly P. Hall's supposed assassination.....

Those links all claim (and a bizarre claim it is) that Hall was strangled to death by two members of a college fraternity.

In reality, Hall died of natural causes, peacefully at his home. He was 96 years old.

Like Masonic Light mentioned earlier. I have never heard of such a reference to a white or black lodge other than from Aleister Crowley's teachings through the Thelema. I have heard of references to white and black lodges in the OTO but can not be 100% sure that they're are accurate, and even then I do not believe that they would be concerning a specific "degree" or "rite" in the OTO.

I believe white lodge and black lodges are simply a reference to ANY lodge or group of peoples. Whether they be good and evil or elightened and ignorant, they seem to not be concerning a specific group but just a term to define certain lodges. As always though the conspirist will take completely irrelavent terms and claim that there is a specific group under that term. An example of my opinion would be:

A Freemason calls a specific group a "black lodge". Although I don't think that would happen, that is my understanding of the terms of black and white lodges.

In that muddled myth of Aryan philosophy by HP Blavantsky The Secret Doctrine, The White Lodge is another name for the Ascended Masters or the White Brothers, the Matamas; this is the first reference that I am aware of, while Crowley was the first to reference the Black Lodge

In mythology think of it this way: White Lodgers are Bodhisattvas while Black Lodgers are Arahats* White=chasity, Black= passion

I think that CGL is onto something. There is the skin color factor = "White" & "Black" Lodges - but that is just on the surface of Reality. I think in this case "Lodge" does not mean an actual Location or Building. I think it is pointing to the Light & Dark sides of Man i.e. Mans True Nature. Dualism = Good vs. Evil. It is interesting that A.C. coined this phrase. I believe that Tamahu would say that it is the EGO (& whether the Adept/Practitioner has Transcended their own Ego) that makes the difference between members of the White or Black Lodges! The reason why I find that Interesting is because although A.C. did transcend his own Ego via the Practice of various Yogas & Meditations - this applied only for certain periods of time. I believe that A.C.'s Ego stayed in-tact & that it was his Selfishness that Ultimately got the better of him & lead to his Downfall. It is an Incredibly hard thing to do to completly Destroy your Ego. I have been a conscious Spiritual Practitioner for over a Decade now & I still have not destroyed my Ego. I can still be Selfish & Attached to Material things - it takes a LOT of work to Transcend the Ego.

Also - in terms of Sex or Tantra - I believe that the term "White" symbolizes the Harnessing of
Sexual Energy for Positive Spiritual Purposes while "Black" symbolizes Pure Selfish Carnality. Again this has nothing to do with Skin Color.

[edit on 21-1-2007 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 21-1-2007 by Seraphim_Serpente]

^^^^^^^^^^ Excellent sypnosis of Crowley in the above post! I agree that in the end his ego destroyed him, and this began when he first attempted to confront Choronzon in the Saharan Desert after the invokation of Pan* Crowley wrote that he successfully defeated The Lurker and crossed Daath, yet I believe he clearly failed bc very shortly atfer that this his serious addiction to heroin began and the meglamanias possessed him* It was at thhis point that he began indulging in more violence in his sexual relations, his life began to spin out of control*

It is certainly no judgement on his strength that Choronzon broke him for (S)he would break almost anyone, perhaps if he had waited and listened to his heart the consequences would not have been so dire, but he was always one to dive right in*

Which begs the question, did Crowley ever really believe in his own teachings? My answer is not completely, he saw Thelema as a new age sort of pschiatry, today he might even be into Scientology* What happened in the desert was that he had "called up one that he could not put down"

On the Mythical lodges, white is popularly thought of as the absence of color, therefore indicating sobriety, alertness, spiritual cleanliness; the ascended masters such as Comte De Germain are written to have white auras, that is they have transcended passions ( which seems funny bc in life the infamous count loved the ladies)
While Black is believed to be the synthesis of all colors, therefore every passion expierenced, every sin perpetuated to become free of sin, the Marquis De Sadde, Cagliostro, Rasputin, yes Crowley, black means ectsasy, unpredictability, intoxication, unbridled passion

There's no Choronzon just a crazy who had a Heroin addiction long before his demon battles in Saharan Deserts fantasy...and the crazies that believe him.

Concerning the Choronzon episode, I would argue that Crowley's two main biographers (Symmonds and Regardie) put way too much emphasis on it. Crowley considered it to be a psychological exercise: confronting the negative aspects of one's personality via personifying them (in this case, in the person of Choronzon). Crowley did not consider the exercise a life altering or world shattering event by any stretch.

As to his heroin addiction, I believe it should be qualified. He did not take up the use of the drug recreationally, but it was prescribed to him by a doctor to treat his asthma (a common prescription in those days). His "addiction" tends to be highly exaggerated by his critics. His state of mind appears lucid in his writings, albeit often purposefully bizarre at times.

Originally posted by Count Germails Lovechild
How comforting it must be for people to think in such (literally) black and white terms! The "everything that offends me or I think is bad surely belongs to the Black Lodge", or "everything that I find right and good is of the White Lodge" mindset! How childish as well! As most people realize, there is more grey in the world than black or white, and as was pointed out these lodges are mythos, allegories, fairytales*

To Know what is truly beneficial for mankind(the White Lodge) and what are causes of suffering for mankind(the Black Lodge) is something beyond beliefs and intellectual-rationalizations.

As Samael Aun Weor taught, The Christ(Great Head of the White Lodge) is beyond the moral-codes and "good" and "evil" of the subjective thought processes of rational-mammals mistakenly called "Man".

Buddhism teaches the doctrine of non-dualism, yet they also recognize that there are white and black karmic-acts(as seen in the Judgement Scene in the Bardo, which is almost identical to the Judgement Scene of the Pert Em Heru).

Does this mean that Buddhism is a dualistic doctrine, just because they recognize that "black" and "white" have their place?

Yes of course societies exist, but to think that they pay homage to a mythical lodge is as ludicrous as Blavantskys overtly racists ravings

See this:

Blavatsky, Gnosis And Racial Teaching


And this: www.abovetopsecret.com...



H.P. Blavatsky, on one hand, was writing for her time.

If she were too racially liberal, then more people than that actually did, would have fleed from her writings.

Some Western Occultists referred to the Tibetans and Indians she befriended as "n*g*ers".

She was also foolishly rejected by the modern Masonic Lodges too(by default, because they denied Cagliostro's proposals)

Both she and Godfrey Higgins(whom Blavatsky respected and quoted in her writings; and who as a Druid himself, wrote that Buddhist Eastern Kush-ites(descendents of the African Ham or Cham, the root of Chiram Abiff) from India built the Stonehenge) were persecuted for the things they wrote).

H.P. Blavatsky did write that some tribes of Africa and Asia had lost(because of karma) the Divine intellectual-spark that allows one to enter Initiation; but this was not racism.

She never said that Africans or any other race are inferior to Europeans.

She only meant that specific branches of sub-races and tribes, because of their karma, are now at the mercy of destiny and the mechanical forces of nature, because they cannot enter Initiation which is the breaking of the cycle of the mechanical influences of nature that work upon us.

H.P. Blavatsky wrote that Buddhism teaches(and they do) that in order to, in all likely-hood, be able to practice Dharma; one cannot be born in a land of barb-arians, where there is no Dharma practice.

(See the recent links I just gave above, about her quoting of Tsong-Khapa as referring to Europeans as "white barbarians", which she didn't even bother to object to)

But most so-called "civilized" people will never enter Initiation(even though they have the potential to), and they too will remain victims of the mechanical aspects of nature and the astrological destinies.


Thank God for us, the Dharma IS now accessible to us white barbarians(see links in my signature).






Regards