CA Assemblywoman Introduces No Spanking Bill

MCory, haha, i wanna be in that nursing home.

anyway. Remember those stories that our parents like to tell us that if they goofed off, they got their knuckles beat with a ruler?

why can't it be the same? do you have any idea how much lower the crime rates would be? and a police force with more rights to use "enforcement" on people who break laws. and i mean someone who is sick enough to go and sexually abuse a child, which sadly we here about more and more in this country, needs to be beaten to a point of near death. this is how you stop crime.

i think that the people of America are getting increasingly more worried about children are because of sickos out there that go and kidnap kids and put them in porn videos. teach those freaks a lesson. beat them until the can barely walk. and ask them if they still wanna "play" with children.

i guarantee the crime rates will go down with more severe consequences.
i understand that this seems "cruel" but do you want to live in fear for your children like that?

same goes for all crimes. if you steal, we aren't gonna put you under a roof, feed you, and clothe you with tax money. i say the police break that man's/woman's finger. they do it again, break em all. its kind of like that "eye for an eye" theory that they use in the middle east, but they go and chop the fingers off. fear is the greatest weapon we have to stop crime. and its kidnappings and sexual crimes against children and child abuse that leads to people worrying about kids more and more, thus giving us these stupid a** laws.

i worry about the kids of America also, parents live in fear that they might not see their kid tomorrow cuz some wacko might take them off the street. or a mother worries that the father is too "rough" in the punishments (and vice versa) stop the crimes at the source. whether they are petty crimes or serious felonies.

it all starts with the crime rate of America and branches out. I think the US is the only country that has to even worry about Priests turning into sexual preadators. it sickens me. but a parent has a right to spank his/her child as long as it leaves no permanent damage. spanking is meant to leave a mental note in the child's brain that if they do something wrong, its gonna bite them in the a** (its why we spank there)

[edit on 01/14/2007 by CrazyPolak]

Originally posted by MCory1
Psychological abuse is--IMO at least--much more damaging in the long run than physical abuse.

I agree, but the 2 also go together. The child may get upset or angry depending on the level and frequency of the punishments. I think that everything that a child experiences goes into how they turn out as an adult. (I believe Freud did some interesting study on that kind of thing)
But then I don't believe that every child turns out the same just concerning how they were punished when they were younger, or that you can predict how they will turn out. There's infinite other aspects that could affect if they turn out to be a violent person or not, some natural and some nurtured.

As a child I was hit as punishment, not softly, but nothing over the top or abusive. And I would say that I am not a violent person (never been a fight starter) and I am polite as much as possible. So you can't say that hitting your kids makes them violent.

More on topic, I know it's annoying that child services come round and keep an eye on you if they hear about anything minor going on, but they're just doing their job. There's probably a lot of kids being secretly abused out there and child services have to check up on all notices just in case. And I don't think that you should hit a child under 3 years old anyway, their bodies are still in a vital developing stage and you could injure them without realising. I don't know how much a law will do to stop it though because if it's going to happen it's going to happen. Maybe some kind of campaign to ease harsh punishments would have been better?

Originally posted by Spiderj
The only person that should punch a three year old is a two year old

lol

Originally posted by CrazyPolak
teach those freaks a lesson. beat them until the can barely walk. and ask them if they still wanna "play" with children.

Haha why don't we just go round beating everyone till they can barely walk, just because we don't like the look of them? Have you ever thought about falsely accused people? They get enough sh*t even when they're proven innocent!

And what about bent cops? They could break a guy's legs just for a laugh then say that he was trying to touch up a kid!

Originally posted by CrazyPolak
i guarantee the crime rates will go down with more severe consequences.
i understand that this seems "cruel" but do you want to live in fear for your children like that?
[edit on 01/14/2007 by CrazyPolak]

Do you want to live in fear of not being able to go out without cops jumping on you and breaking your legs because you look a bit 'shifty'? Because that's what it will end up like if you start introducing small laws, they will get carried away and in the end they will be able to beat you for anything.

It's meant to be the land of the free, not the land of the sort of free (but beware of cops that might think you're up to something, because they'll kill you!!!)

Originally posted by CrazyPolak
i say the police break that man's/woman's finger. they do it again, break em all. its kind of like that "eye for an eye" theory that they use in the middle east,
[edit on 01/14/2007 by CrazyPolak]

Yeah because that looks quite a fun place to live doesn't it. What if someone that didn't like you saw you in a shop and thought it would be a laugh to drop a chocolate bar in your pocket then tell the security guard? You wouldn't think it was a good law then would you???

Originally posted by CrazyPolak
spanking is meant to leave a mental note in the child's brain that if they do something wrong, its gonna bite them in the a** (its why we spank there)
[edit on 01/14/2007 by CrazyPolak]

mhmm and what if the parent knows they can get away with it and over-does it? Punishes the child harshly when it's unnecessary? That 'mental note' will blossom into much more, especially when the child is older. As I said before, I believe that all of a child's experiences (especially psychological) contribute to who they grow up to be.

Originally posted by snafu7700
a quick smack on the butt with an open palm lets them know that what they are doing is not going to be accepted. but you should never ever punish your children while you, yourself, are still angry...that is what leads to overstepping the boundary between a spanking and beating.

Very good advice, snafu. There are times when a well-timed spank is effective, but parents should be careful to have control of their own emotions before doing it.

There is absolutly no need whatsoever to strike your child. NONE! I have a little boy and I have never once had to disipline him in such a maner. Time out for that little guy is horrible enough. You send my son into time out its as if his world has ended. I never once spanked him.

I run a tight house for my son. There are rules to follow. If he steps out of line he gets a warning. If he continues to step out of line its time out time. He gets 6 minutes in time out thats 2 minutes for every year he is. That is enough to realy stop him in his tracks. After time out is over we talk about what rule he broke and why it is important to follow it. I don't scold him after the time out is over I just explain the rule.

Time out isn't just for him either its also for me. That way I can take a step back and be a good father to him and not let any anger cloud my judgement.

Let me tell you that after my son goes through a time out he is realy remorsefull and thinks twice before having to sit on that step again. It works and it also makes it so he has no fear for me. I don't want my son to grow up with a fear that I am going to hit him if he does wrong. But on the other hand I dont let him just go nuts either.

There is a difference between Power Over and Power To

If your going to hit your child that is showing power over your child if you put your child in time out you are showing him that he has the power to avoid the situation next time.

Originally posted by whatukno
Let me tell you that after my son goes through a time out he is realy remorsefull and thinks twice before having to sit on that step again. It works

Well it's lucky for you that that system works, but that's just your household. It doesn't mean that it will work for other people. Some kids wont be affected as much by time outs and will just scream their lungs out and not learn a lesson. Then what do you do?

See we had started this form of disapline early just after his second birthday. You have to raise them with the rules firmly in place. Never waiver, and if your married work together if your divorced work together. That is one good thing that has come of my divorce both of us love our son and we work together knowing that the other parent will follow each others rules.

I know it's not effective on all kids but there are other ways to disipline a child without making that child afraid of you.

a child that grows up afraid of their parents will rebel against them. A child that knows that he can trust his parents will not have those issues.

Originally posted by iori_komei
Well I'm surprised, and outright disgusted anyone would spank a child
under three.

I raised two to resposible children to young adulthood, so you are going to tell me that now government should get into my business with my child?

My mother raised 4 to responsible adulthood and now she is raising my sisters two boys and you are going to tell my mother has to be told by the government how to discipline the children that she is giving home too.

I support this bill, though in my opinion it doesn't go far enough.

Will you will support a bill that will put cameras in your bedroom if the government pass a bill to make sure that sex is for procreation only?

A child is an individual, and just because they are under 18 does not
give you the right to physically hurt them (unless they want to, like
pulling a cactus needle out).

A child is a Dependant that has to abide and obey what the parent or guardian's rules are put in the household.

A child is not born knowing but learning as they are guided by the parent and a very necessary once in while tap in the butt.

Is not business of the government to get into the affairs of the family unit and their right to raised their children and chose punishment as they see fit.

for child abuse is already laws to deal with the abuser.

This law is not going to fly, you know why . . . because out of revenge anybody can accused a person of abuse and as usual abuse of the bill will become a potential danger to any parent.

Including atacks in a divorce case.

Get it, is to stupid a bill to even be considered, bills like this are only put outhere by people that has not clue what it takes to raise a child in this full of BS society.


[edit on 19-1-2007 by marg6043]

whatukno, I'm glad you have a system that works for you. When I was a kid, I would've walked all over my parents had they tried that. Most of the people I know say the exact same thing. At the same time, I know there's lots of people out there who would agree with you wholeheartedly. There's probably even people out there who think you take it too far.

I got spanked, but I didn't fear my parents in the slightest. Neither did any of those I grew up with, who got disciplined much more harshly than I did in some instances.

It's like everything else--it's all a matter of how it's handled. You don't even have to touch the kid to put the fear of god into them--I know that very well; once I was too big to get smacked on the rear, I found out what I was mentioning to iori earlier. I could scare the ever-loving piss out of my hypothetical children, make them fear me, hate me, and give them all sorts of emotional trauma that'll basically ruin them for life without ever laying a finger on them. At the same time, they could grow up under a harsh disciplinarian "regime" and turn out to be top, well rounded members of society. It's more important what happens in between the punishments than the punishment itself.

(BTW, my "rebellion" never happened, either, in spite of being spanked as a kid. I did some stupid things, but it wasn't to rebel against my parents--or any other authority figure, for that matter. I was actually quite disappointed in myself.

haha, i wasn't actually serious about all that beating the crap out of criminals and stuff. i just get really pissed when you here about people using small kids in pornography. its sick. the youngest child i ever heard of used in such a film was only 11 months old. it was some1 close to their family.


but you have to admit that our crime punishment system isn't the greatest. it could be a bit more strict on punishment. making people afraid
of committing crimes is half the battle.

as for breaking bones and such, yeah i went over the top. i just can't bare to think that kids like my little cousins are being used for some1 else's pleasure. its disgusting.

[edit on 01/14/2007 by CrazyPolak]

Originally posted by marg6043
I raised two to resposible children to young adulthood, so you are going to tell me that now government should get into my business with my child?

My mother raised 4 to responsible adulthood and now she is raising my sisters two boys and you are going to tell my mother has to be told by the government how to discipline the children that she is giving home too.

My father and mother raised me without laying so much as a hand on me and I am a law abiding citizen. I work, pay taxes, and now am raising a child of my own.

Will you will support a bill that will put cameras in your bedroom if the government pass a bill to make sure that sex is for procreation only?

No but honestly I think a lot of people would subscribe to the channel

A child is a Dependant that has to abide and obey what the parent or guardian's rules are put in the household.

Yes and the reson that a child is a dependant is because they are dependant on you as a parent to care for them because they cannot care for themselves. They still are people just little people.

A child is not born knowing but learning as they are guided by the parent and a very necessary once in while tap in the butt.

It's not necessary to spank a child all the child will learn is fear and fear eventualy turns to hate.

Is not business of the government to get into the affairs of the family unit and their right to raised their children and chose punishment as they see fit.

Your absolutly right in this point, but at what point does the government have to step in and make sure that parents are not abusing their children?

for child abuse is already laws to deal with the abuser.

Yes and those laws in my opinion are quite adiquate. I agree with you here.

This law is not going to fly, you know why . . . because out of revenge anybody can accused a person of abuse and as usual abuse of the bill will become a potential danger to any parent.

That is true too. But I would hope that you would have to have substatial evidence to charge someone with this crime. I think the heart of this law is to keep people from whiping the tar out of their children which every parent can see is wrong. The real question is what can be defined as a swat on the butt and a thorough thrashing?

Including at tacts in a divorce case.

Ugly divorces are just that UGLY believe me after my wife got an attorney involved my divorce got truly ugly and she kept my son away from me with no reason whatsoever, but the advice of her lawyer. After we went to mediation she learned that I wasnt going to take that kind of abuse of my child. The abuse was, that I love my son very much and he loves me and to keep him away from me with no real reason was wrong.

So this law will give Ugly divorces more ammo. your right once again.

Get it, is to stupid a bill to even be considered, bills like this are only put outhere by people that has not clue what it takes to raise a child in this full of BS society.

What everyone needs in this life is a little middle ground thinking. I think this law is ridiculous however I don't think you have to spank your child to get your point across to them.

We as parents need to realise that we are teaching our children every moment of every day. Everything we do translates to our kids as a life lesson. Whether by action or inaction. If you teach your child to fear you they will but only for so long. If they learn that they can trust you unconditionaly then they will be better off.

I agree that the government shouldent get envolved in parenting our children it is the parents job to parent our children. The better parents we are the better our children will be and the better our world will be in the future.

Originally posted by MCory1
whatukno, I'm glad you have a system that works for you. When I was a kid, I would've walked all over my parents had they tried that. Most of the people I know say the exact same thing. At the same time, I know there's lots of people out there who would agree with you wholeheartedly. There's probably even people out there who think you take it too far.

I got spanked, but I didn't fear my parents in the slightest. Neither did any of those I grew up with, who got disciplined much more harshly than I did in some instances.

It's like everything else--it's all a matter of how it's handled. You don't even have to touch the kid to put the fear of god into them--I know that very well; once I was too big to get smacked on the rear, I found out what I was mentioning to iori earlier. I could scare the ever-loving piss out of my hypothetical children, make them fear me, hate me, and give them all sorts of emotional trauma that'll basically ruin them for life without ever laying a finger on them. At the same time, they could grow up under a harsh disciplinarian "regime" and turn out to be top, well rounded members of society. It's more important what happens in between the punishments than the punishment itself.

(BTW, my "rebellion" never happened, either, in spite of being spanked as a kid. I did some stupid things, but it wasn't to rebel against my parents--or any other authority figure, for that matter. I was actually quite disappointed in myself.

Actualy my "rebellion" against my dad was to become an acountant.
(my dad is a cowboy)

I don't agree with "putting the fear of god" into children. Respect works more efectivly thain fear.

give it about 14 more months tsloan....then i think you might see the advantages of a slap on the butt.

I already have step 2 if verbal and tone reverbaration starts to fail and that would be a water gun that sit's in the cooler. A few shots of cold water should gather some behavior adjustment?

Originally posted by marg6043
I raised two to resposible children to young adulthood, so you are going to tell me that now government should get into my business with my child?

My mother raised 4 to responsible adulthood and now she is raising my sisters two boys and you are going to tell my mother has to be told by the government how to discipline the children that she is giving home too.

What I'm saying is that you can't go hit a person in the street, and
just as such you can't hit a child just because there behaviour does
not fall in line with what you want, that's not to say I'm saying you
should'nt use some sort of discipline if there right little blighters,
but it should never be through pain/hurting them physically.

Will you will support a bill that will put cameras in your bedroom if the government pass a bill to make sure that sex is for procreation only?

Of course not.
And this is not even similiar in any shape or form.

Is not business of the government to get into the affairs of the family unit and their right to raised their children and chose punishment as they see fit.

It is the purpose of the government to protect the rights of others,
to make sure they are not infringed upon, and causing physical pain
to another individual, reagardless of age (without consent) is infrin-
ging upont there rights.

[edit on 1/19/2007 by iori_komei]

A child under 3 does not pay taxes.
A child under 3 does not have a job.
A child under 3 cannot walk down the street by him/herself, and hit anyone else as they please. (unless the parents are stupid)

Bottom line as far as I'm concerned is, the government has some bias over the rights of people of this country, to whom can makeup thier own minds, and make decisions that will affect those around them in a social setting.

In other words, until that child is of an age that he/she is able to wander about on their own and make decisions that can affect others, they are not under government rule. The parents are their government. They make the rules.

A child under 3 doesn't care who is president, only what toy he/she is playing with, and when is lunchtime?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am 27, I grew up starting school in Baird Texas, right close to Abilene. The principal there had a paddle above her desk, to which she used on me ONE time, and ONE time only. After that, I was straight as an arrow. This of course was the 80's, and the school system still had the power to discipline kids for their behavior. My father had a paddle, a 1x4 with 1/4" holes drilled in it. It was very very very rare he ever took it to me, more that the fear of it being used kept me from doing stupid s***. I WAS NOT ABUSED. I was disciplined. There is a big difference between abuse, and discipline.

A violent parent will lead to a violent child.

I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, or get into fights. I have a clean record, and only one speeding ticket since I was 16.

It's legislation like this that takes away the power we have to change the world around us. OUR children (I don't have any yet) can change things for the better, but instead, become unruly, spoiled, and unfocused because we do not enforce what we say. I for one am for spaking a child, my future child.

Most poeple overlook the fact that children are getting smarter at younger ages now, I was doing high-school to college math in first grade. I would get my work done within 15 min., and draw the rest of class. It would piss my teacher off to no end, until she learned that I was doing what I was supposed to be doing, and left me alone. I have become a rather accomplished artist to date (not professionally). Young children do not get anywhere from time-out. My parents tried time-out with me for awhile, and as far as I was concerned, I just waited the hour there in the corner until I could go back and do as I wanted. I didn't learn anything, only the sting of that paddle reminded me that I was doing wrong. I was not abused, a light smack with that paddle seemed like a hammer, but in hindsight, it's no harder than getting flicked on the arm by the same 3 year old.

Our schools have had their power taken away to deal with problems, and now legislation is slating to take it to even a younger age.

I can't remember where I saw the thread, but someone here posted of a child that was text-messaging in class, and when the teacher scolded them, and threatened to take away the phone, the child accused the teacher of violating thier "rights to have it"

If you don't believe that a child should be spanked when he/she does wrong.........look at Paris Hilton. That b**** needs to be beaten with a sledgehammer, and made to get a job.

Do you want your kids to end up like her? I don't.

we all draw a line. use your method of parenting and let others use there's. the line i draw is when the child is in danger. the only line we should have. spanking is to teach a child. abuse is striking fear into the child.

can we agree on this? if not Spierdalaj!

and by the way, when i was a kid my parents would spank me every time i did somehting stupid.

screwing off during church = respect for my religion
fighting with my brother = we get along perfect now
getting my first detention = never got in trouble in school again
mouthing off = respect for both my parents

what does this all amount to? i'm their perfect kid now. i took the SAT in 8th grade to prepare for it in highschool, score 1340 and was invited to the Future Leaders Summit this year. i help out at home, babysit my cousins, and plan on joining the military. I'M NORMAL! spanking, if done correctly, is a fine way to discipline a child. abuse actually hurts the child. when was the last time a stinging butt hurt you? i remember i threw a rock through someone's windshield once, and my dad caught me. when we got home, he took off his belt, and spanked me until i could hardly sit. did i consider it abuse? HELL NO! i'm glad he did it. some of my old friends are constantly flunking their classes and getting in trouble. my current friends and i have a little competition about who got it the worst. we laugh about it now with each other and each others' parents. its quite funny. we all laugh and live normal lives.

People the more the government gets into the business of family and parenting the more our society is turning children into young adults that has not clue what responsibilities and respect is all about.

BTW I also was a teacher of junior high students.

In today society bills to make criminals of parents is just giving more ammunition to the government to go after its citizens.

While ignoring the facts of was is the problem with society.

Look at all the stupid bills that are out there that are nothing more than steeping into privacy and control of citizens.

We are humans not robots of government possessions.

Let the laws already established for abuse of children work, make the government make them work.

Kingalbrect.....i love you.....j/k
completely agree with you

but seriously, when was the last time a good spanking did any harm? i'm not saying go beat the crap out of your kids. i'm saying make sure they know that what they do later on in life, can make them or braek them.

and if all else fales......sign em up for the marine corps
a good kick in the a** from a drill sargeant when they're 18 can build some serious character lol

there is no "right way" to raise kids. there's sure as hell a wrong way, but until you find a perfect plan for kids in the world, where we can live without our kids turning into psychos, there is no right way. its the chracter of the parent and the determination that the parents have to get their message across.

if they feel they need to spank, let em spank. if a timeout is all the kid needs, thats just as fine. but sooner or later there's gonna be a time where how you raised your kid isn't going to effect them anymore, wether its just for that one moment or the rest of their lives.

why are we even worried about mild spanking?? or even the occasional belt to the bottom?

what we should worry about is what the parents of teh kid stand for. think about it. smoking aprents are 10x likely to have their kids turn out as smokers. abusive parents are 10x more likely to have abusive kids. and so on and so forth. church goin parents are 10x more likely to have theri kids go to church when they start their own family.

it all comes down to what the parents/parental figure believe in. a few spanks on the butt aren't gonna make a kid go insane for the rest of his life. and if it will PROVE IT.

[edit on 01/14/2007 by CrazyPolak]

Not governments place to say, plain and simple. How you raise your kids is your business.

If the kid has bruises on his.her body is one thing. Getting smacked for being a smart ass is a completely different thing.