"How can someone prove to you they have time traveled?"

Bottom line is technology is appearing more and more useless as a tool to bring about proof. I could be wrong...

For those familiar with technology, everything can be faked, and anything can "appear" possible.

For those unfamiliar with technology, it's all magic, miracle, witchcraft, or devil worship.

This actually brings up an excellent point, and that is that beyond simply taking a person through the time portal, you have to be clever and imaginative as to how you provide proof to people.

Is it actually about proof (i.e., physical evidence), or is it also about something else? Does proof require a willing participant to be effective?

I'm asking, because ultimate proof for a large number of people is seeming elusive.

Is there proof that exists as infallible on its own, independent of an observer (is that an empty statement? lol if a tree falls in the woods...)?

It brings up the idea of "What is the worth of proof?" What is the value of proof? Once you've "proven" something to someone, where does it go from there?

Proof, it seems here, is a stepping stone, but on its own it's virtually worthless. A court case is a good example, as proof is to establish something, so further action can be taken.

In the case of time travel, whatever "successful" avenue of providing evidence (proof) you choose, it has to be tied to a proceeding action (whether that's to provide information, effect change, etc.).

dAlen, you also bring up magicians like David Blaine, etc. This is where the nearly impenetrable skeptic can explain away anything.

Proof must appeal to something inside of us beyond the skeptic that sees a photo and decides to believe in something. This is just a thought, but I wonder if it has merit.

Is there something else, some other way to provide people with the truth and have them take it inside themselves? Just asking...

It seems that proof may need to find a way around the ego mind, or the conscious mind and reach straight for the heart to be believed...or it could be that I am crazy as an outhouse rat...

dAlen, thank you for posting your thoughts!!

hmm a simple game could prove it, have numerous reporters all stand in a circle each holding a card with a diffrent number and color on each, (even if its one they do themselves)........have each reporter place it behind there backs...then time travel back in time a few mintues before stand from a distance behind, look at all the numbers and colors, then travel back to the future or just simply return to location and tell them each of their numbers and colors

2nd post

It worked....!!

Too many " solutions " , could IMHO be recreated with innerant gifts of prophecy or even RV , not time travel

IMHO any " data based " proof can be rectreate bu none time travel paranormal tallents

the most compelling evidence , though still IMHO not proof of time travel would be to insert or ermove an artefact that could not have been manufactored or fakes @ the time it is " discovered " .

ie -

in 2250 , steal a sony PS10 CONSOLE from a museum , hop into your personal space shuttle - land at the appollo 11 landing site , activate your time machine and return to may 31 1969 and seal the console in clear resin at the exact spot where the flag will be placed

OnTheDeck I am glad you liked my suggestion - I think it would work.

To clarify, my suggestions was that the time traveller would use the DNA of his parents to prove that he had travelled by returning to a time when they were themselves still children and therefore unable physically to bear him.
Blood samples could prove conclusively who the parents are, and would be verifiable by any number of geneticists.

One issue that would arise is if the children themselves become aware that they are apparently intended to growup and bear a child together - that this has been foisted upon them may mean that they deliberately rebel against any kind of attraction to one another. And so the future traveller will never be concieved, compartmentalised time may mean that it is irrelevant, but only if his birth is in a different compartment. (This situation would mean that the timelines have split?)

The other issue that I can foresee is the 'when'. Proving time travel through parentage this way would rely on the traveller needing to return at a time when his parents are still children. I know that we can prove parentage without any problems or even siblings, beyond that I am uncertain - could a geneticist say conclusively that a person is related to certain grandparents or great grandparents - I would imagine that the further removed the relative is the harder it would be to prove a direct and irrefutable link.

As to Jesus (Assuming he existed) my issue is that we would have nothing to compare Jesus' genes to - even if someone stepped up and claimed to be descended from him, even if that link could be proven, there is no way that those genes would prove he is Jesus. Some people say that Jesus would only have the genes of his mother because of the immaculate conception. But that can't be right, because Jesus was male - Mary could not provide the Y chromosone needed to make a male child.
Also, even if you were able to clone Jesus - is it the genetics of a person that makes them who they are? I say it is the soul and you can't clone a soul surely. Even if the soul is linked to the genetics how would God feel about you ripping Jesus from his side back down to earth?
Also IF you were capable of achiving it, people would be much more concerned about the return of the messiah than they would be about a time traveller - your story would be relegated to page 3 very quickly and your message would go largely unnoticed.

[edit on 20-1-2007 by ilandrah]

Hi, Confederacy!

You suggested,

have numerous reporters all stand in a circle each holding a card with a diffrent number and color on each, (even if its one they do themselves)........have each reporter place it behind there backs...then time travel back in time a few mintues before stand from a distance behind, look at all the numbers and colors, then travel back to the future or just simply return to location and tell them each of their numbers and colors

OK, I admit I chuckled when I thought of actually doing this. First, (not to pee on your parade) where do you find a group of credible reporters who are willing to play this game and stand in a circle with a card?

There is, no doubt, a version of this sort of experiment that would work, but this has to work in our current reality. It has to apply to, say...jeez, I was trying to think of a credible news personality and I blanked...I don't know that there are any...

Anyway, whatever experiment (and there are plenty) that you try, it has to work in the real world...The proof has to be so convincing that Bill O'Reilly (U.S.) would swear on his mother's grave it was the real deal.

There also should be an easier way to prove this to a small group of people like that. I posted one experience that actually came to pass, earlier in the thread, with a time traveler showing up to meet himself in the past (can't remember which page I posted it on, though...).

Thanks very much, Confederacy!!

I read your post. I found it thought provoking...

What worked? Your 2nd post?

Welcome to ATS!!

ignorant_ape, I think you basically said that a lot of seeming proof could be faked, hoaxed, or blamed on something else (e.g., predictions could be explained away as some sort of "vision" or psychic/ESP ability, etc.).

You came up with a quite ingenious idea,

in 2250 , steal a sony PS10 CONSOLE from a museum , hop into your personal space shuttle - land at the appollo 11 landing site , activate your time machine and return to may 31 1969 and seal the console in clear resin at the exact spot where the flag will be placed

This is a great idea, except that only a couple of astronauts - and then the government, bad, bad government - would find and be in possession of the PS10. The proof needs to be put in the hands of the people, and not the government. This is the whole idea; that the government has been, and will continue to lie unless we reveal the truth.

But the idea is fantastic!! Just move it away from the government...

The PS10, by the way, utilizes a quantum singularity chipset that exploits a distortion in space and time. Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball is the bomb in 2250 (I made a mental note also that Sony only comes out with seven more consoles in that two-hundred forty-three year period with these dates...LOL).

Thank you, ignorant_ape! Very unique idea!!

You said,

my suggestions was that the time traveller would use the DNA of his parents to prove that he had travelled by returning to a time when they were themselves still children and therefore unable physically to bear him.

I actually had problems with this sort of DNA thing. Reason being, DNA can be extracted at any time. The fact that this is possible would place doubt in anyone's mind being offered this as supposed proof. Any doubt, means a loophole and this means this particular usage may not be 100% effective.

You also have the problem of laypersons not understanding DNA evidence as well as the professionals. A scientist may see this as persuasive evidence, but a layperson may just think that someone stole tissue or blood surreptitiously.

I don't know about the DNA thing...

You added,

One issue that would arise is if the children themselves become aware that they are apparently intended to growup and bear a child together - that this has been foisted upon them may mean that they deliberately rebel against any kind of attraction to one another.

The children wouldn't necessarily need to follow through, because the time traveler already proved his case. And here, even if these children don't grow up and have him, he will still exist (I believe) because of the compartmentaliastion (oh forget it...thank you, johnlear LOL)...I know regardless of this theory that he would continue to exist even if they didn't give birth to him...

I've decided to leave the "Jesus cloned" thing alone LOL. I mentioned in a previous post about the problems with this idea...Besides, HOW COULD YOU CLONE JESUS?! LOL (I also mentioned in jest hooking him up to a lie detector. I think we should leave him alone..)

The biggest thing you can say to anyone about the subject of time travel is first, to have an open mind, and second, don't take everything you've seen on the subject as absolute fact. Much of it is fiction, and only loosely based on scientific "theory".

Also, you never know what a time traveler might look like, and you certainly don't know when or how he will arrive...

Thank you, ilandrah!!

Originally posted by OnTheDeck
I read your post. I found it thought provoking...

What worked? Your 2nd post?

Welcome to ATS!!

3rd Post
Yes, my 2nd post - on this thread - only when I adjusted the timeline my first post disappeared, which was posted originally about the same time as this post.

Well, I can't prove it this way.

I wonder if I were to go back and stop Al Gore from becoming President people would believe me then?

THe person that is saying that they indead time traveled has to answer a question. The current person of the time traveling person would have to commit something new to memory that would not have be memorized before hand, and the future person would have to answer,

Cocker, you did it! Al Gore didn't become president!

So far this thread has not successfully been able to suggest a bullet proof method to provide indisputable proof to a large number of people (one person, yes) that a person has time traveled.

This is proving to be an apparently difficult task...

Cocker, that was funny...

I wonder if there's a photo that someone could post on ATS that at least would cause controversy along these lines...Just a thought...

Thanks, Cocker!

You have an interesting one...

I'll say this, our greatest weapon - the media - is also our toughest audience. And we need not only those credible individuals, but also the technology to get this message to the masses.

Not only because we have to convince someone who's job and credibility are actually on the line, but we have to cross our fingers that someone high up (or behind the scenes) doesn't stop our proof from getting out.

Given this, your idea in interesting. To me, it might be considered some sort of magic trick. Have you ever seen David Blaine on the street just looking at someone, and is able to tell them what they're thinking?

Because individuals like this (Chris Angel, etc.) have done the seemingly impossible in front of large, live crowds, this sort of proof would be very difficult to convince a large number of people.

The biggest skeptic I know of is media personality, Bill O'Reilly, in the U.S. here. To me, if you can prove to a group of people like him of the veracity of your claims you're in...

So, it's a great idea, but may come off more as a parlor trick...I can't believe this is as difficult as this is proving to be...

But, thank you, TKainZero, for your response!!!

Originally posted by OnTheDeck

It's never in our best interests to be kept in the dark.

Sure it is. If it is never in our best interests to be kept in the dark, then why are people in the dark?

I can think of many reasons which would justify keeping people in the dark, but people are not even willing to discuss the truth concerning those reasons. Most won't even contemplate the idea that humanity would be better off not knowing. People think it is someone else that is keeping the truth from them? The fact that people do not know the truth is proof enough they do not want to. The truth is coming in from all directions, but people's expectations are usually not compliant with the truth, hence they aren't paying attention to it.

We need to know what's going on. There is no reason to keep information from the free and independent race of human beings on this planet. None.

I can think of many reasons for keeping information from the human race, however i do not think this is being done.

you said:
There is no reason to keep information from the free and independent race of human beings on this planet.

I say the humans who are free and independant have the information. The people who do not know are not free or independant.

IN DEEP PENNED ANT ....
IN..DEEP..PENNED..ANT
IN..DEP..PENNED..ANT
INDEPENDANT

[edit on 21-1-2007 by Esoteric Teacher]

This anonymous post is in response to ATS thread: "How can someone prove to you they have time traveled?"

Have the person claiming to time travel stand against a wall. A marksmen standing at the furthest point away in which he can shoot and shoot a bullet that it would shoot time traveller's head and go through and hit the wall behind him.

when the marksman shoots the timetraveller will time travel away from the bullet's path then back in the path, but having the bullet hit the wall, so it would been as if the bullet went THROUGH him.

hope this helps.
please critique, or ask for clerification, my english typing skills is horrid.

OK, it's a bit off topic, but I said,

quote: Originally posted by OnTheDeck
It's never in our best interests to be kept in the dark.

You responded,

Sure it is. If it is never in our best interests to be kept in the dark, then why are people in the dark?

Let me just say that our government, military, and the controllers behind the scenes absolutely love you.

We're just servants, chattel, and consumers. We don't need to think. It's done for us. We are subservient to our government, and it should be the other way around.

We are fed a steady diet of pap by our media, religion, and the entertainment industry. We've been dumbed down and fattened up.

If there's a thought in our head that thought is about a commercial product.

If there exists other thoughts (i.e., philosophical, or religious) that thought has been "given" to us and filled that need. No more inquiry or thought necessary. Religion is exactly as it has been presented to us. There is nothing more. Go about your business.

The only other thoughts are about self preservation, and the sexual drives, which have been manipulated and excited by our media, and major marketing firms.

We ARE in the dark. We're in the dark about the important stuff. But for the most part, when I say in the dark, I mean that someone has information that can free people from the manufactured reality that has been handed to us.

And who exactly is keeping the majority of people in the dark? Secret societies, religious institutions, our government, and individuals who influence and guide these institutions from behind the scenes.

This is what I'm referring to. Keeping us in the dark is not a favor, nor is it a gift. Why one man should have information that affects the human race and not another is indefensible.

You said,

I can think of many reasons which would justify keeping people in the dark, but people are not even willing to discuss the truth concerning those reasons. Most won't even contemplate the idea that humanity would be better off not knowing. People think it is someone else that is keeping the truth from them? The fact that people do not know the truth is proof enough they do not want to. The truth is coming in from all directions, but people's expectations are usually not compliant with the truth, hence they aren't paying attention to it.

You seem comfortable with the idea that until someone deems you ready to be given certain information that is immediately applicable and pertinent to you - even critical - then you trust that information is in capable hands, and is best kept from you.

I disagree. If one man is capable of receiving information, then all men are capable of receiving information. Children are capable and intelligent enough to handle death, religion, God, Satan, war and ironically, later, sex, then why can't they deal with equally profound truths? Like where they really came from?

The fact that we aren't alone in this universe (which anyone with common sense, an open mind, and the power of perception could surmise without a government disclosure). Why is this kept from us? Information should be free. But some people are afraid of information; the truth.

But you do say that people aren't paying attention to it. This is true to an extent. But we are talking about one man keeping another in the dark, and the absurdity of that notion.

The only reason one man keeps secrets from another is to control the other man, and to protect his own assets. Information is a threat to a lot of people, and they therefore keep it to themselves.

Their position, power and bankroll demands that certain information is kept from others - but it is never for the good of the one being kept in the dark, make no mistake.

It's funny that many people who have ET contact experiences talk about being told and shown the secrets and behind the scenes evil deeds that elements in our government and military engage in.

A clearly advanced being is showing their abductees this information and much, much more, but when that abductee returns he goes right back into the dark with the rest of us.

We live in a fabricated reality manufactured and perpetuated by those who are afraid to provide the common man with the truth about our place in this universe, because doing so would jeopardize those organizations' existence; the hold they have over us.

There are far worse things that have occurred than I will mention here, but I'll say that I'm learning more and more that the clock is ticking on the truth. The real truth, not what we've been fed for so long.

There's nothing dangerous about destroying the lies and greed that have been used to construct a false reality and system that operates against the laws of nature, and against the sanctity of the spirit and creator of this universe.

A system built on money and lies is doomed to fail, and the poor souls that believed otherwise are soon going to realize their mistake. Only it will be too late to make amends. That time has come and gone.

I'm not coming after you, Esoteric. My rancor is toward the system of secrecy and its meaninglessness, save for keeping certain people in power, and the rest of us under control.



[edit on 21-1-2007 by OnTheDeck]

Sorry, rant there...

You suggested,

Have the person claiming to time travel stand against a wall. A marksmen standing at the furthest point away in which he can shoot and shoot a bullet that it would shoot time traveller's head and go through and hit the wall behind him.

Then,

when the marksman shoots the timetraveller will time travel away from the bullet's path then back in the path, but having the bullet hit the wall, so it would been as if the bullet went THROUGH him.

This is a trick that could possibly be performed...Would someone think that it was a magic trick though? The reason I ask is I can imagine David Blaine, or Chris Angel (street magicians) performing a similar trick....

Someone might think it was just a magic trick...

Not to dump on your idea, but this might be one of the hardest things in the world to prove to people...

Originally posted by OnTheDeck

Let me just say that our government, military, and the controllers behind the scenes absolutely love you.

I'm not saying people shouldn't know. I'm saying people don't know because they do not want to know. If they wanted to know, they would know. I believe this is the case.

We're just servants....

Serve ants or servants? Sometimes i wonder ...

We ARE in the dark. We're in the dark about the important stuff.

perhaps it's important to import ant? Perhaps this is one of the messages? maybe, but i may be wrong.

And who exactly is keeping the majority of people in the dark? Secret societies, religious institutions, our government, and individuals who influence and guide these institutions from behind the scenes.

Seek Writ So Sigh E.T.s? = Secret Societies!!!

In Flew Ants? = Influence.

Why one man should have information that affects the human race and not another is indefensible.

This is only true if you can prove knowing is defensible. This is only true if you can prove teaching others said information is defensible. I'm not dissagreeing with you by any means.


But if we knew, what would the cost be for knowing?
What if the truth causes all these questions to be irrelevant?:
And what would you do if you knew?
What could you do?
How does it affect your personal agenda?
How can we affect their agenda?

You said,

You seem comfortable with the idea that until someone deems you ready to be given certain information that is immediately applicable and pertinent to you - even critical - then you trust that information is in capable hands, and is best kept from you.

**Seem** being the one word that changes the context of the above statement.

If one man is capable of receiving information, then all men are capable of receiving information.

If this statement were true, all men would have recieved the same information that all men have been given. The above statement is not true until men make themselves capable.

.. then why can't they deal with equally profound truths? Like where they really came from?

Is there enough paper on earth to print out the truth?
Is there enough storage capacity in all the minds of humanity to obtain understanding of the truth?

I'm not convinced the answer to either question is yes.

Why is this kept from us?

I don't think it is.

Information should be free. But some people are afraid of information; the truth.

I will most certainly agree that most people are afraid of information and truth. They simply keep ignoring ants to the point of ignorants.

But we are talking about one man keeping another in the dark, and the absurdity of that notion.

What man owns dominion over the truth? Point him out, and i'll go there.

The only reason one man keeps secrets from another is to control the other man, and to protect his own assets.

Sure, this is true from the perspective of a mind that has no basis for comparison than that of selfishness. Only a person who does not put others above themselves could assign the same attributes to everyone else on the planet. How would he know different though? He has no basis for comparison throughout all his experiences as a manifestation of "Self Pre-Serve".

Their position, power and bankroll demands that certain information is kept from others - but it is never for the good of the one being kept in the dark, make no mistake.

who's keeping you in the dark? Point them out to me.

I'm not coming after you, Esoteric.

We're good. no problems between us whatsoever.

We are only sharing ideas, and both of us have the same goal.

My rancor is toward the system of secrecy and its meaninglessness, save for keeping certain people in power, and the rest of us under control.

I understand.

Who could lose if they had the truth?

I say put the truth first and foremost. Love the truth more than anything else, and go after it, in thought and research. Because, i believe the truth is in existance.


thanks,
john

[edit on 21-1-2007 by Esoteric Teacher]

hmm, how to prove time travel

Get all the worlds news broadcasters together. Get the "time traveller" in front of the cameras and tell him to go back to the prehistoric age and return with a T-rex, right there and then, no going off to his time travel ship. The traveller should technically be able to disappear then almost instantly re-appear with a T-rex.(hopefully its on a leash)

Having a T-rex suddenly appear would certainly convince me.


Alternatively, go back to the newly forming earth, grab a rock or 2 and bring them back for carbon dating.

Originally posted by almeister 5000
For me you would proberly have to write me a letter saying excatly what was going to happen in my life for the next week or two. Although I wasn't allowed to open the letter until a said date thus not allowing me to change my decisions depending on what you told me.

You might also have to specify third party actions of that week things that I would not be able to control myself.

Alan.

I haven't read all of the responses after this one yet , so I'm sorry if someone else has mentioned what I'm about to say.

I think this is a very hard kind of proof to ask for. I assume it would take a long time to gather this data of someone who is an ordinary citizen. Why would a time traveler contact an ordinary person to tell them about this wondrous invention of his?

I think perhaps it would be plausable if the person who is being examined to be a famous person with handlers and auditors around them constantly. Their actions would be easier to trace and not require as much research.