China ASAT(Anti-Satelite device) Test? Troubling Debris

This article discusses how there have been growing reports in China that they are working on delveloping an anti-satelite device(ASAT). This device is meant to destroy enemy satelites in low orbit. It is worrisome to the US for several reasons includinig that US military satelites are in potential jeopardy now, it sounds as if the US doesn't have their own ASAT, and finally, the resulting space debree could damage other satelites and the International Space Station.



It appears that once again China has worked behind the US' back. To me this is very troublesome news and just shows how dishonest and selfish the leadership of their country is. Hopefully, space programs from around the world will see what and how China is treating it's space faring partners and will decline to work with China in the future.

Could this be China's way of flexing before the US takes out Iranian Nuclear Plants?
And why doesn't the US have an ASAT of their own as the article says?

The US did have a ASAT weapon using an F-15 and a special missile and I believe they tested a recent laser based weapon against a satalite?

How is this "troublesome news"?

The US is openly and enthusiastically embracing space warfare, when another country does the same exact thing it's a sign that they're a menace?

How is it "troublesome" news?

Umm, this is just another sign that the Cold War never ended and that the US is being challenged by a country with 4 times its population.

Space based equipment in the hands of the military is a sure fire way to keep this technology from the public for as long as possible. Personally, I love all things space related and I love knowing about them, hence, this is "troublesome" for me.

Devil I remember reading something about the F-15/missile combo. I guess I was wrong when I said the US doesn't have any ASAT's of its own, sorry.

Short Points

We can do it to, currently, no problem (with other systems besides an F-15, that is no longer an operational program).

US military satellites will be harder to hit than this Chinese weather satellite, also, space warfare against the US is a lot more complicated.

Yes, the Cold War never "ended", at least not in the classical sense.

The US realizes how vital and vulnerable our space asserts are. As such, there are a number of programs underway which you wont hear about that deal with this issue.

Bottom line is, yes our satellites (like everyone else's) are vulnerable, but we aren't sitting by doing nothing.

[edit on 18-1-2007 by WestPoint23]

Well I'd disagree that the Cold War never ended.

For people who didn't live through it it's kind of hard to explain, but the Cold War was very much a war, simply one that never flared up.

While there are still international tensions and rivalries, the situation between the US and China is nothing like the Cold War. The US and China may view each other as rivals and potential enemies, there is nothing going on comparable to our 50 year nuclear standoff with the Soviets.

And sure, the fact that the Cold War came to an end doesn't mean that we're all just one big happy planet now, however neither are we a world clearly divided into two armed camps anymore. The situation now is far more complex.

Originally posted by xmotex
Well I'd disagree that the Cold War never ended.

For people who didn't live through it it's kind of hard to explain, but the Cold War was very much a war, simply one that never flared up.

You're overlooking all the proxy wars that took place - Korea, Viet Nam, etc., between the two sides in the cold war. If you remember, the cuban missile crisis was also pretty tense.

While there are still international tensions and rivalries, the situation between the US and China is nothing like the Cold War. The US and China may view each other as rivals and potential enemies, there is nothing going on comparable to our 50 year nuclear standoff with the Soviets.

Not exactly true. There were plenty of "bumps and grinds" between the U.S. and soviet union during the cold war. With china, it's been incidents such as the spyplane that crash landed there because it was hit by one of their fighters, and all the espionage and attempts to influence U.S. elections (such as with Al Gore).

And sure, the fact that the Cold War came to an end doesn't mean that we're all just one big happy planet now, however neither are we a world clearly divided into two armed camps anymore. The situation now is far more complex.

Yes, more like Cold Wars instead of a Cold War.

Thanks to the American dollaaaarrrr China makes us hollleeeerrrr

Well it seems that China new find prosperity in the American economy is making possible that their military and weapon power gets very ongoing.

So is anybody going to find out what is China up or may I say their primary space related targets

How is it "troublesome" news?

Exactly. The US ASAT is working since the early 80s, nothing to be affraid of... Now, an anti-missile system THAT works would be cool.

Didn't GWB recently lay claim to Outer Space being the property of USA and that anyone placing a satellite without his permission that was deemed hostile would be taken out of Space? Well I guess this is China's way of saying HI and we can do that too.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Didn't GWB recently lay claim to Outer Space being the property of USA and that anyone placing a satellite without his permission that was deemed hostile would be taken out of Space?

Not at all, have a read. US Space Policy (PDF)

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Well I guess this is China's way of saying HI and we can do that too.

I see it more as a realization that the US dominates in information warfare. Hence trying to reach parity by destruction is on the Chinese agenda, they cannot achieve that (yet) by any other means.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Not at all, have a read. US Space Policy (PDF)

Well it seems to me that China is excersizing its own rights and protections to space. Also I see that this Document is marked as Unclassified, is it possible that there are parts of it that are classified?

From your PDF

The conduct of U.S. space programs and activities shall be a top priority, guided by the following principles:
• The United States is committed to the exploration and use of outer space by all nations for peaceful purposes, and for the benefit of all humanity. Consistent with this principle, “peaceful purposes” allow U.S. defense and intelligence-related activities in pursuit of national interests;
• The United States rejects any claims to sovereignty by any nation over outer space or celestial bodies, or any portion thereof, and rejects any limitations on the fundamental right of the United States to operate in and acquire data from space;
• The United States will seek to cooperate with other nations in the peaceful use of outer space to extend the benefits of space, enhance space exploration, and to protect and promote freedom around the world;
• The United States considers space systems to have the rights of passage through and operations in space without interference. Consistent with this principle, the United States will view purposeful interference with its space systems as an infringement on its rights;
• The United States considers space capabilities -- including the ground and space segments and supporting links -- vital to its national interests. Consistent with this policy, the United States will: preserve its rights, capabilities, and freedom of action in
2
space; dissuade or deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so; take those actions necessary to protect its space capabilities; respond to interference; and deny, if necessary, adversaries the use of space capabilities hostile to U.S. national interests;
• The United States will oppose the development of new legal regimes or other restrictions that seek to prohibit or limit U.S. access to or use of space. Proposed arms control agreements or restrictions must not impair the rights of the United States to conduct research, development, testing, and operations or other activities in space for U.S. national interests; and
• The United States is committed to encouraging and facilitating a growing and entrepreneurial U.S. commercial space sector. Toward that end, the United States Government will use U.S. commercial space capabilities to the maximum practical extent, consistent with national security.

Originally posted by Low Orbit
It appears that once again China has worked behind the US' back. To me this is very troublesome news and just shows how dishonest and selfish the leadership of their country is. Hopefully, space programs from around the world will see what and how China is treating it's space faring partners and will decline to work with China in the future.

What? How? Who?

China tests an ASAT device and they're evil and stabbing everyoone in the back, but the US pulls out of the ABM treaty and is planning to weaponise space and that's ok?

Please refrain from girly logic and explain why you think like this.....

Here's some follow up:



So is this test a message in regards to?:
China to US: No Meddling in Our Iran Biz Forbes, NY

The US appears to have worked behind it's own back in showing the world that might brings right and everyone should prepare for war that can't agree with DC, but we need your cheap manufacturing base so please make us more toys too. That and who is going to hold China accountable if this exploded satellite's debri field knocks out several more satellites?

Buy at Wongmart...cheap today, pay hell tomorrow? So now the plan is the manufacture space weapons in order to blow up numorous satellites, then our orbit becomes useless real estate for 100's if not 1000's of years.

[edit on 19-1-2007 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Buy at Wongmart...cheap today, pay hell tomorrow?

Unfortunately yes, silly morons, selling their soul, country and future away for short term gain.

Sorry to post again in such a short time, but it seems people are avoiding a certain question...

Why is it perfectly ok for the US to weaponise space and do as it likes, but now China is doing it (or, to be exact, countering the potential US threat from space), it's "bad"?? Huh? Come on, someone give me an answer....

I see the reasoning behind this has switched from a military stanpoint to one of a concern for "space debris".... That's pretty weak guys...

Originally posted by stumason
Why is it perfectly ok for the US to weaponise space and do as it likes, but now China is doing it (or, to be exact, countering the potential US threat from space), it's "bad"?? Huh? Come on, someone give me an answer....

Wrong is still wrong regardless of who, what, when, or where.

No one should weaponize space, but since we can't all agree on that idea then space will become weaponized. That and I have yet to see anyone convince our esteemed military industrial complex that war and destruction is not a solution, because it still is "he who has the most guns makes the most rules" aka law of the jungle.

So what's the answer? Give everyone a free pass to go nuts, cause our leaders are nuts too? Yeah we did it, so it's okay drop nukes on Japan too?




[edit on 19-1-2007 by Regenmacher]

Thanks for the reply...

Well, to be honest, I agree.. No one should have space, but it is the ultimate "high ground" which military planners do like so much...

looking at this though, it seems that whilst the US is looking to actually put weapons into space, China just appears to concentrate on shooting them down, so technically, they are not weaponising space, but rather, de-weaponising..

i just don't get what the problem is from some posters. They act as if China has just nuked them, when in reality, the Chinese just want a defence against the multitude of US sattelites that fly over they're territory every day....

Originally posted by stumason
China just appears to concentrate on shooting them down, so technically, they are not weaponising space, but rather, de-weaponising.

Exploding a weather satellite has actually created several thousand bullet sized fragments whizzing around at 17,000 mph, so this idea de-weaponizing space is a bit much.

In any event, this missile fired into space will be used as an excuse to arm it.

There's absolutely no reason why china shouldn't 'work behind the US's back'. The whole notion of that phrase makes me laugh. Ohh the arrogance.