Zionism, Jerusalem Program, Jews vs Gentiles

Originally posted by kokoro
And what do you think they are hiding?

I don't think they're hiding anything....
I think they strive to be successful and on top.......
......of everyone.

Is that because they believe they are the chosen ones?

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips

Ever been to the Diamond and Jewelry Way block in New York city. It's nothing but hasidic Jews in their hats and trenchcoats carrying around briefcases.......yes, these holy men.....diamond merchants. You'll never catch a priest or minister strolling in that crowd.

That's interesting because I find it to be true. The Jewish faith is focused on wealth and success....................material aims without true meaning. God knows.

LOL! Sorry. No, I didn't quote mine.
Well, what you mention is partly why Jesus rebuked the Jewish pharisees, saducees and priests of his day. They were caught up in their earthly traditions, wealth, and power, and not focused on God and the spirit.

In Matthew 23 Jesus is addressing the Pharisees:
16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?"

Luke 11:
43 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces."
45 One of the experts in the law answered him, "Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also."
44 "Woe to you, because you are like unmarked graves, which men walk over without knowing it."
46 Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them."

The temple back then was where the Jews prayed, but also traded, bartered, sold stuff, made deals. Jesus wanted none of this in a house of prayer, which is why he basically threw a mental, wrecked the temple, and really PO'd the Pharisees. Which was pretty much the last straw (as far as the Jewish leaders were concerned) in leading to his arrest....and finally, his death.

Not to be mean, but ever been to Synagogue before? I have.
It's a "fashion show".

[edit on 17-1-2007 by rocknroll]

The Jewish faith is focused on wealth and success. It seems everyone should be. Or are those material aims without true meaning? Only God knows.

Oh bullhonkery. Just bullhonkery. You obviously know nothing of the jewish faith, or the history of the jews in the particular or broad sense.

There are democratic jews, republican jews, jews who don't care about politics. There are poor jews, rich jews, and middle class jews. There are white jews, black jews, and jews of every other descent. There are tall jews, short jews, fat and thin jews...

In other words, ascribing the primary tenents of the jewish faith as only focused on wealth and success is utterly, completely wrong; stereotypical at best, and racist at worst.

Take a look at jews with your blinders off...and you'll find a people who, like other peoples of the world, have struggled, fought, and survived against incredible odds. They are a people who put great emphasis on education - not because their faith demands it, but because their survival does.

In any religion you will have two different codes - the faith code, that is based on the book they follow; and the cultural code, based on the survival of their community. One is not the other; neither the bible or the Torah demands one be educated...but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that to survive, one must have earning capabilities; and the best earnings come with higher education degrees.

No issue - there are tons of white folk with higher education degrees; tons of arabic, or asian, or...take your pick. So why point to the jews with such derogatory fear?

I'd suggest you read some of their holy books, and see what their word preaches. As for your comment about the hasidic jews being all around the Diamond district and a minister or priest walking through them...all I can say is the Catholic Church is wealthy beyond imagination, and there are many preachers who evangelize on television and in communities that would have a similar IRS form if they were required to file them.

Do some research, learn a little, deny your ignorance, and be well....

~Aimless

Aimless, why don't the jews nor the catholic church focus on charity efforts throughout the world like maximizing humanitarian efforts in Africa?

I've not experienced them NOT helping when asked...

Regards~
Aimless

The antisemitism is strong in this one. I always thought education and the pursuit of success were good qualities to have. Sounds like some of you are jealous. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by Aaron_Justin
I always thought education and the pursuit of success were good qualities to have. Sounds like some of you are jealous.

Education is good, yes. But pursuing success for worldly gains? You should be more concerned with your spiritual gains, and not your worldly gains. When you die the only thing going with you is your spirit, not your million dollar home, not your expensive cars, not your posh lifestyle. What does it take for people to understand that success, money, power, riches and wealth are not at all the keys to inner happiness and peace? All physical "things" in this world eventually perish. So where does that leave a soul who placed happiness in the material physical world? Many Christians realize this. Lot's of very rich, unhappy people out there......

........in the end the meek shall inherit the earth (and the kingdom of God), not the rich and powerful.

"How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

[edit on 17-1-2007 by rocknroll]

The Jews are the chosen but that simply means that they will get special consideration where it concerns the Messiah.

As a Bible Christian I am grafted into their vine. I will continue to pray for their Salvation and support their rights to survive.

There are currently thousands of Russian Jews treated like second class citizens in the Eastern Block. Being poor and wondering where the next meal is coming from leaves little time to deal in diamonds.

Despising another group will only eat you away inside. I suggest those that hate Jews look in the mirror and work on their own lives.

This is JMO based on my beliefs, I am in no way singling anyone out.

I'm Jewish, and let me tell you, I'm so rich and I control the entire media/banks/world from my little Kia on the way to work.

I secretly manipulate every government from my little 1 bedroom condo and laugh at all the suckers that I fool....


My family has worked their a$$ off all their lives and had financial issues the entire time...

Not all jews are rich or run the banks or the world...

I'm just a common man working for a living, just like so many other people in this world.

I know people of other faiths/races who are born with lots of money from mommy and daddy and drive in very fancy cars and can spend $200 on shoes/clothes, and only want more and more money. Greed and Control are universal, and can apply to any HUMAN being, regardless of religion/faith/hair color...

Originally posted by jbondo
I suggest those that hate Jews look in the mirror and work on their own lives.

Geez, I don't hate anyone. I feel sorry for the Jews. I think they missed the boat. I think they're misguided. I think their focus is off. I think they made a mistake in not accepting Jesus as their Savior. They were afterall waiting at that time period for him to come. He showed up and instead of embracing him they eventually had him put to death because he wasn't the messiah they "wanted", he threatened their existing beliefs. He made their priests look like the power hungry fools they were. They wanted a savior to free them and put them on the top of the heap, but under God we're all equal. Since they were the "chosen ones" Jesus message was not good enough for them, they wanted preferential treatment.....the problem is God doesn't give preferential treatment, no matter if your chosen or not. I think the "chosen" thing went to their heads, personally.

But hate? No.
Pity? Yes.
Big difference.

My question is: they predicted the prophet Abraham and he came, they predicted the prophet Moses and he came, they predicted King David and he came, then they predicted the messiah would come 2000 years ago. So if Jesus wasn't their messiah, who is? And why did the guy they predicted would come, never show up? Answer: He did, but he was not what they had in mind.

[edit on 17-1-2007 by rocknroll]

I see the Jews in this thread decided to take shots at the posters who brought up logical quesitons. Instead of acting like a simpleton, please answer the following question those of the Jewish faith :

Why does your kind have such enormous power, wealth, and protection despite being a tiny % of the world' population?

Please answer that question and leave the personal insults at the door. If you can't post logically, don't post at all.

Originally posted by rocknroll

Originally posted by Aaron_Justin
I always thought education and the pursuit of success were good qualities to have. Sounds like some of you are jealous.

Education is good, yes. But pursuing success for worldly gains? You should be more concerned with your spiritual gains, and not your worldly gains. When you die the only thing going with you is your spirit, not your million dollar home, not your expensive cars, not your posh lifestyle. What does it take for people to understand that success, money, power, riches and wealth are not at all the keys to inner happiness and peace? All physical "things" in this world eventually perish. So where does that leave a soul who placed happiness in the material physical world? Many Christians realize this. Lot's of very rich, unhappy people out there......

........in the end the meek shall inherit the earth (and the kingdom of God), not the rich and powerful.

"How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

[edit on 17-1-2007 by rocknroll]

It also is said in Matthew 7:1, "Judge not that ye be not judged."

For me personally, and I realzie this is arguable, is that you can try and live out to your potential and still work on your spiritual gains.

Jimmy Carter just wrote a book about how Israel is very controlling, that got a tremendous backlash from Israel and the Jewish culture. I have not read the book myself but intend to. I never like Carter for backing down from Iran with the Hostage crisis in the 70's, but over the past 15 or so years he has proved himself to be a very good and credible man. Why would he lie at this stage in his life?

Why would one group of people want to control everything or the world?

Here is a thread I started in regards to his book.

Link to ATS Thread

Has anyone read it? if so give us some insight on the book.

New York Time Article




[edit on 17-1-2007 by Realtruth]

How dare they call our former president anti-semetic. I'm all for a Israeli state, but Carter's claim that they're influence in the media which is pro israel is true. These Palestinian's don't recieve funding from America to get gun's and helipcopters, and fighter jets. They have to resort to blowing themselves up and using car bombs. And right away the media spin's this last resort tactic of Palestinians as terrorism.

Originally posted by rocknroll

Originally posted by jbondo
I suggest those that hate Jews look in the mirror and work on their own lives.

Geez, I don't hate anyone. I feel sorry for the Jews. I think they missed the boat. I think they're misguided. I think their focus is off. I think they made a mistake in not accepting Jesus as their Savior.

Pity? Yes.
Big difference.

[edit on 17-1-2007 by rocknroll]

Oh G-d here we go on the Jesus thing again... It always comes down to this doesnt it...

#1 They dont want your pity. Your pity is offensive and flies in the face of thier centuries of dedication to the Torah, which you seek to nullify.

#2 Dont you think that they are smart enough to recognize the messiah? After all, they are the ones who wrote the prophesies. They dont accept Jesus because he does not and never will fit the criteria. Im sorry if you and the rest of the world cannot accept that the Jews refuse to convert but you are just gonna have to get over it.


#3 Jews are no more materialistic than anyone else. You refered to synagogue as a "fashoin show". Just like in Christianity there are both kinds of places of worship. EVERY single christian church I have ever been to, and that is alot considering I was raised christian and have lived in the bible belt all my life, has been full of shallow plastic fake people. Now do I think that is how all christians are ? NO! of course not! Because I realize that stereotyping people can come to no good end. There are sincere pious people in all religions and in all walks of life.


[edit on 17-1-2007 by kokoro]

[edit on 17-1-2007 by kokoro]

Originally posted by kokoro
Oh G-d here we go on the Jesus thing again...

It always comes down to this doesnt it...

This thread subject is Jews vs. Gentiles. I am a Christian (or gentile to a Jew).

Originally posted by kokoro
They dont want your pity.

I never said they did.

Originally posted by kokoro
Your pity is offensive and flies in the face of thier centuries of dedication to the Torah, which you seek to nullify.

I haven't mentioned the Torah once.

Originally posted by kokoro
Dont you think that they are smart enough to recognize the messiah?
After all, they are the ones who wrote the prophesies.

And do you think they are "the only ones" who are smart enough to know the Messiah? Are you implying they have some "smarts" over the rest of us gentiles? And Jesus was a Jew and so were all his apostles (several of which who wrote the Gospels).

Originally posted by kokoro
They dont accept Jesus because he does not and never will fit the criteria.

That's where you wrong. He fit all the criteria.....made all the prophecies of the Old Testament concerning the messiah come true. The one criteria the Jews hold against him is he didn't rescue them from slavery/bondage under the Romans at the time. How dare their messiah not rescue them. What they didn't understand was there was more to him than what they "wanted".

Originally posted by kokoro
Im sorry if you and the rest of the world cannot accept that the Jews refuse to convert but you are just gonna have to get over it.

Oh, I can accept it. I don't believe I'm trying to convert anyone here in this thread.

Originally posted by kokoro
Jews are no more materialistic than anyone else. You refered to synagogue as a "fashion show".

Then why do they own and run just about every single major media outlet in the USA?
Do you want a list?

And synagogues: I have never seen so much gold, diamond rings, jewelry, Gucci, Armani, top designer labels, and cosmetic-surgery-perfected-womens-faces packed into a house of supposed worship. Synagogue feels strange. At synagogue they talk, at mass we pray. Synagogue feels like a social function, mass feels like holy devout reverance to God (even my Jewish brother-inlaw admitted this).

Originally posted by kokoro
There are sincere pious people in all religions and in all walks of life.

Agreed!

Why does your kind have such enormous power, wealth, and protection despite being a tiny % of the world' population?

Please answer that question and leave the personal insults at the door. If you can't post logically, don't post at all.

If I were to accept your premise as truth [I don't accept it whatsoever], and answer your question directly...I'd daresay it would be because they study hard and work very hard, as well. No smart a$$ing there...

As for your comment "your kind", if you were to say that about blacks, or asians, or spanish, you'd be labeled a racist of the most base kind. I'd say that those people who'd label you that not too far off...seeing as I don't know you personally, I can't say for certain, but if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and smells like a duck, well then, it's most likely a duck.

As for Rocknroll's position that synagogue is a fashion show, how many times, and what services did you attend to get that opinion?

[I'm not getting into the whole debate about who's religion is correct...it's not for me to tell others how to believe, nor castigate nor condemn anyone for their beliefs. That's God's job, and I suspect He does it very, very well...and doesn't need my help...]

Regards~
Aimless

Aimless, you lived up to your name on that last post.