Saddam Hussein arrested

When I posted this a little bit ago, a wave of other posts whooshed in and drowned it before it could be read. So, I'm reposting it, just in case anyone is interested or has an opinion.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
oh yea and this is great news and its quite disturbing that many of you look on this as a bad thing! A man who cause geonocide on alot of people,

Are you sure it was Saddam that gassed the Kurds?

1990 Pentagon report
Iraqi Power and U.S. Security in the Middle East
Excerpt, Chapter 5
U.S. SECURITY AND IRAQI POWER

Significant numbers of the Kurds had launched a revolt against Baghdad and in the process teamed up with Tehran. As soon as the war with Iran ended, Iraq announced its determination to crush the Kurdish insurrection. It sent Republican Guards to the Kurdish area, and in the course of this operation -- according to the U.S. State Department -- gas was used, with the result that numerous Kurdish civilians were killed. The Iraqi government denied that any such gassing had occurred. Nonetheless, Secretary of State Schultz stood by U.S. accusations, and the U.S. Congress, acting on its own, sought to impose economic sanctions on Baghdad as a violator of the Kurds� human rights.
Having looked at all of the evidence that was available to us, we find it impossible to confirm the State Department�s claim that gas was used in this instance...

It appears that in seeking to punish Iraq, the Congress was influenced by another incident that occurred five months earlier in another Iraqi-Kurdish city, Halabjah. In March 1988, the Kurds at Halabjah were bombarded with chemical weapons, producing a great many deaths. Photographs of the Kurdish victims were widely disseminated in the international media. Iraq was blamed for the Halabjah attack, even though it was subsequently brought out that Iran too had used chemicals in this operation, and it seemed likely that it was the Iranian bombardment that had actually killed the Kurds. members.aol.com...
And don't ever forget, the US is responsible for the death of nearly a million Iraqi civilians, 500,000 of which were children, through our economic sanctions. This number doesn't even include the thousands of civilians that have died as a direct result of this war.

brutely tortured his political opponents,

The US is illegally detaining "enemy combatants" without charges, legal representation, or even contact with their family members. The Administration won't answer to anyone, even Congress, about who is being held or what they are being held for. Can't say for sure if they are being tortured, but it has been claimed that they are.

raping wive of his enemies,

As far as I know, Bush is not guilty of this, but most Iraqi women are still afraid to go outside after dark because of the high potential to be attacked

invader of other countries,

We, definitely, cannot accuse Saddam of that without being hypocrites. We have made it our personal mission to bring democracy to the world, whether it wants it or not.

and finally just a bad dude.

Sort of like our own corporate puppet and pathological liar of a president.

Even if the USA's reasons were not just in the beggining of this war for goin in (even tho i believe they were) this end result is undeniably a good thing.

So, the ends justify the means, huh? It doesn't matter how much our President, the elected servant of the people, lied to us, in order to get us into a war to line his pocketbook? None of it matters because one of the side-effects, was that we removed Saddam from power and have now arrested him? Don't tell that to the Americans that have lost loved ones thanks to this greed fueled war, or go read some of the stories from Iraqi's that have had their homes destroyed and innocent spouses and children killed at the hands of the US military, and then tell them that. www.counterpunch.org...
This is what Condoleeza Rice had to say about the reason Iraq was a "clear and present" threat:
March 13, 2002
Bush's State of the Union message focused attention on WMD and turned up the heat on certain countries which National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said "are a clear and present danger" to the United States and the rest of the civilized world. Why? "Because the Iranians, who spread and support terror around the world, the North Koreans, who proliferate these weapons, and the Iraqis, who make a region of great importance to us unstable, clearly are a clear and present threat to America, America's interests, and America's allies."
usembassy.state.gov...

And i challange anyone on this board to say his capture was a bad thing.

He was definitely a man who didn't need to be in power, and I'm sure all of the people who suffered at his hand are thrilled he's been removed from power and arrested. Most of them would be equally thrilled to see the US get the hell out of their country

Look at the pictures of the citizens in Iraq do they look liek it is a bad thing!!! NO, they are thrilled they are finally liberated from a cruel dictator and now can fianlly have some freedoms and live without the fear of him pillaging you house and raping your wife!

The ousting of one dictatorship just to replace it with another is good only because they're now being oppressed by the lesser of the two evils.


[Edited on 14-12-2003 by jezebel]

Originally posted by Kriskaos
Quicksilver makes a vaild point he was isreals biggest threat. But Bush being Bush had to play sherrif.

Would have equally beaten the living shyte out of Iraqs 'army'..

And please remember..

Israel has first operational [modern] anti-missile defence system..

Some 3th class Scuds would be easy targets for Arrows..

And there wasnt even single SCUD or Al-Hussain SRBM found.



[Edited on 14-12-2003 by FULCRUM]

Originally posted by FULCRUM
Truht is what i have said.

You cant handle the truht so you attack me..

And Quicksilver..

Trust me,

They do much worse things to captured guerillas than just beat em up little..

Fulcrum, please let us all know.....HOW THE HELL DO YOU CLAIM TO KNOW WHAT IS EXACTLY GOING ON IN IRAQ AND ANYWHERE ELSE? How do you know we torture just as bad as Saddam and worse? If you don't cite any sources, you are a doubly ignorant fool. And they need to be legitimate sources. BTW, if you don't know what citing sources is, I can let you know.

Isreal would have never gone to war with saddam because of the repracusions that it would have caused in the international community.. so bush did it for them

fulcrum but i can cite that th egovernment does not officially santcion them like saddam did. if they are being treated bad like he did its is from a rouge soldier and/or general.

and we did find scuds and al-hussain missles they fired a few at us!!! but i guess you didnt here that cause your local news didnt report it and get on a soap box and get a bullhorn and yell it in your ear

Originally posted by Kriskaos
Isreal would have never gone to war with saddam because of the repracusions that it would have caused in the international community.. so bush did it for them

Well, if the Israel was attacked, it would be supported by all UN countries, including Germany and France.
This would be a much better scenario for Bush, if he would help the Israelis in their fight against the agressor.
But I am not sure if Iraq would ever attack Israel.

My knowledge of general military procedures tells this..

I would guess that they use isolation, beating, fake excecutions, electric shocks and such to make prisoners more 'willing to talk'..


Like here, this is actually torture..
Make one mad quite quickly..



But im sure as you suggest, they are all relaxed and drink coffee together..

proof fulcrum proof. Yea isolation is one that can go with out sayin but remember if we did do these things we live in a free country and teh NCLU would but all up on them

well of course not johnny iraq wouldnt because they arent that dumb and they knew what would happen to them if they did.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
proof fulcrum proof. Yea isolation is one that can go with out sayin but remember if we did do these things we live in a free country and teh NCLU would but all up on them

How much more proof do you want?

Isnt a image of suspected 'Al-Qaida members' tortured in Cuba enough?



Method shown in the pic is actually quite brutal form of mental torture..
(mental torture can be much more brutal than physical one..)



Its not actually that im against you doing this..

Its just about you lying that you dont supposedly do these things.

hes yelling at teh captive inmate thats it. Solitary confinment is used in civian jails too!!

depravation of senses..

Breaks subjects mind permanently if exdented..

They feel, hear, see and smell nothing.

See the cotton on feet and hands.. masks on head..

thats were that can bite or mame the guards.

jezebel, an excellent post. both times. lol.
Unfortunately, some refuse to respond to things they disagree with but can't refute.

sorry jez i skipped your post and just read it damn my laziness. give me a min

Originally posted by Quicksilver
thats were that can bite or mame the guards.

No,

Its there for torture..

Correct english term for the method is "Sensory Depravation"..

google it..

All that i find tells that this will turn subject insane and paranoid.

Originally posted by jezebel
When I posted this a little bit ago, a wave of other posts whooshed in and drowned it before it could be read. So, I'm reposting it, just in case anyone is interested or has an opinion.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
oh yea and this is great news and its quite disturbing that many of you look on this as a bad thing! A man who cause geonocide on alot of people,

Are you sure it was Saddam that gassed the Kurds?

1990 Pentagon report
Iraqi Power and U.S. Security in the Middle East
Excerpt, Chapter 5
U.S. SECURITY AND IRAQI POWER

Significant numbers of the Kurds had launched a revolt against Baghdad and in the process teamed up with Tehran. As soon as the war with Iran ended, Iraq announced its determination to crush the Kurdish insurrection. It sent Republican Guards to the Kurdish area, and in the course of this operation -- according to the U.S. State Department -- gas was used, with the result that numerous Kurdish civilians were killed. The Iraqi government denied that any such gassing had occurred. Nonetheless, Secretary of State Schultz stood by U.S. accusations, and the U.S. Congress, acting on its own, sought to impose economic sanctions on Baghdad as a violator of the Kurds� human rights.
Having looked at all of the evidence that was available to us, we find it impossible to confirm the State Department�s claim that gas was used in this instance...

It appears that in seeking to punish Iraq, the Congress was influenced by another incident that occurred five months earlier in another Iraqi-Kurdish city, Halabjah. In March 1988, the Kurds at Halabjah were bombarded with chemical weapons, producing a great many deaths. Photographs of the Kurdish victims were widely disseminated in the international media. Iraq was blamed for the Halabjah attack, even though it was subsequently brought out that Iran too had used chemicals in this operation, and it seemed likely that it was the Iranian bombardment that had actually killed the Kurds. members.aol.com...
And don't ever forget, the US is responsible for the death of nearly a million Iraqi civilians, 500,000 of which were children, through our economic sanctions. This number doesn't even include the thousands of civilians that have died as a direct result of this war.

brutely tortured his political opponents,

The US is illegally detaining "enemy combatants" without charges, legal representation, or even contact with their family members. The Administration won't answer to anyone, even Congress, about who is being held or what they are being held for. Can't say for sure if they are being tortured, but it has been claimed that they are.

raping wive of his enemies,

As far as I know, Bush is not guilty of this, but most Iraqi women are still afraid to go outside after dark because of the high potential to be attacked

invader of other countries,

We, definitely, cannot accuse Saddam of that without being hypocrites. We have made it our personal mission to bring democracy to the world, whether it wants it or not.

and finally just a bad dude.

Sort of like our own corporate puppet and pathological liar of a president.

Even if the USA's reasons were not just in the beggining of this war for goin in (even tho i believe they were) this end result is undeniably a good thing.

So, the ends justify the means, huh? It doesn't matter how much our President, the elected servant of the people, lied to us, in order to get us into a war to line his pocketbook? None of it matters because one of the side-effects, was that we removed Saddam from power and have now arrested him? Don't tell that to the Americans that have lost loved ones thanks to this greed fueled war, or go read some of the stories from Iraqi's that have had their homes destroyed and innocent spouses and children killed at the hands of the US military, and then tell them that. www.counterpunch.org...
This is what Condoleeza Rice had to say about the reason Iraq was a "clear and present" threat:
March 13, 2002
Bush's State of the Union message focused attention on WMD and turned up the heat on certain countries which National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said "are a clear and present danger" to the United States and the rest of the civilized world. Why? "Because the Iranians, who spread and support terror around the world, the North Koreans, who proliferate these weapons, and the Iraqis, who make a region of great importance to us unstable, clearly are a clear and present threat to America, America's interests, and America's allies."
usembassy.state.gov...

And i challange anyone on this board to say his capture was a bad thing.

He was definitely a man who didn't need to be in power, and I'm sure all of the people who suffered at his hand are thrilled he's been removed from power and arrested. Most of them would be equally thrilled to see the US get the hell out of their country

Look at the pictures of the citizens in Iraq do they look liek it is a bad thing!!! NO, they are thrilled they are finally liberated from a cruel dictator and now can fianlly have some freedoms and live without the fear of him pillaging you house and raping your wife!

The ousting of one dictatorship just to replace it with another is good only because they're now being oppressed by the lesser of the two evils.


[Edited on 14-12-2003 by jezebel]

2.Jez even at that if tehy werent responsibel for the gassing of teh Kurds there is still 400,00 death unaccounted for that he supposebly enacted. And the econmic sanctions are brought on by saddam not us.

2. I liek you dont agree eiththe detaining of the "terrorist" in getmo but like i said to fulcrum i guarentee we are not doin like saddam did,

3. witht the women in Iraq yes of course theyer scared to go out because of saddams legacy adn gruntss and the muslim culture that cant go out anyway.

4.AND the bush thing you are stating is another seperate debate that could go on forever. I liek him i think his intentions are jsut.

5. I cant wait till we find the wmds to silence ppl liek you. And liek i said to fulcrum what about the tons of chemical weapons that have gone unaccounted for. and i think the end does justify the means here. Even if there is no wmd and we were wrong then we stil did good there that justifies the whole war. and i bet the iraqies believe that to.

6. yes i bet they would liek to see the USA out of there now that we have saddam we can get out of there even quicker.

7. and sure you can think of us as teh lesser of two evils but unlike saddam we are goin to give sovernty back to the people of iraq.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
and we did find scuds and al-hussain missles they fired a few at us!!! but i guess you didnt here that cause your local news didnt report it and get on a soap box and get a bullhorn and yell it in your ear

These were those short range battlefield missiles..

Al-Samouds.. with range of 150km [or up to 180km]..

They had a permission to have these..

Build under UN supervision..



Link!

no they found scuds and al hussain missles cant find a link right now gotta go hang christmas lights but ill be back lata