The South Tower

Originally posted by Damocles


and im being serious here. in the spirit of openmindedness, i would like to know how much of the concrete in teh towers was turned into dust and how much, given the mechanisms involved here should have survived as solid concrete. and please have some facts to back it up. thank you.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by Damocles]

Here is a link to a photo of what was left of Three Rivers Stadium after it was brought down by a controlled demolition. Notice how the entire upper deck structure of the stadium is still intact.



Here is another photo of the same rubble. Notice how there doesn't seem to be much that was pulverized.

A pancake collapse:




Notice the "pancakes". Where were they at Ground Zero?







Not even the lowest floors "pancaked". Just metal and dust.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by bsbray11]

Does this occur during an implosion?




Seems that the outside columns are falling outward, which would occur is the top was collaping into the bottom, splitting it apart, right? Would this counter the idea that charges were on the lower floors, blasting away for the collapse? Just a thought on this pic I found.

[edit on 6-2-2007 by esdad71]

i cant see the pic you posted, but in a structure like that, in the interest of being unbiased, no. if you blow out the bottom then drop a 100 story building on it the walls could still be pushed outward by debris.

however...the contention by many who claim there were explosives is that they were ripple fired from the top down...which in my mind means they wouldnt need to bother with blowing out the basement supports.

but thats just me.

Sorry about that....



[edit on 6-2-2007 by esdad71]link

[edit on 6-2-2007 by esdad71]

Originally posted by ANOK

Please I am not an extremist, I take offence at such a remark!

And please re-read my OP, I don't want to hear from such things as un-popular mechanics, I want your views on this.

Pop mechanics did not cover the questions I'm asking, all they did was support the official story, and like the official story they conveniently ignored anything that didn't fit the story they want us to believe.

Pop mechanics is owned by the Hearst corp who are one of the biggest media outlets in the world and are motivated to support the government, no matter what.

so basically you're saying that you only hear what you want to hear. Anybody who doesn't agree with you, you will eventually label a "tool of the government" or say that they are liars.

problem with you 911 deniers is that you dismiss tons of anwers (including answers to this exact same question) because you think everyone is a disinfo agent and out to spread lies.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
so basically you're saying that you only hear what you want to hear. Anybody who doesn't agree with you, you will eventually label a "tool of the government" or say that they are liars.

Jeez you guys love to read things that are not there, whats up with that?

What part of 'I want to hear your views on this' did you not understand?

As I have explained the point of this thread was there is NO mention of the tilt in any of the official documentation, so to save time arguing over pop mechs, which doesn't mention the tilt either so is irrelevant to the thread, I was just reminding folks I want THEIR opinion.

So why not stick to the topic? Quit trying to discredit me and other posters. Do you have an answer to the original OP question? If not why are you wasting peoples time?

if its time to vote ive decided.

im going with your hypothesis anok.

superbushgravityray.

please note my vote in the official log and consider my input on the matter closed

Originally posted by Damocles
if its time to vote ive decided.

im going with your hypothesis anok.

superbushgravityray.

please note my vote in the official log and consider my input on the matter closed

So does that mean you can not do research on your own to find out the truth about what happened.

no ultima thats not what it means at all.

ive provided a volume of information on explosives in the past. how they work what they can or cant do even how much it would take to bring down even a single floor of the wtc based on what we do know in absense of the actual blueprints. sadly much of this work ws pre-august of last year so its gone. but even then, it was all either dismissed by the cd crowd cuz i was 'obviously a govt shill' or they'd simply start to say it was 'some new explosive we dont know about'

everyone wants an expert but only if they agree with them.

ive done my own research and u know what i found? based on current evidence available to ME there were NO high explosives preplaced by anyone with the intent of brniging those towers down and making it look 'natural'

but no one wants to hear that. oh if i came along and made my same statements about my credentials, but said there were explosives, oh id be their golden boy. but it doesnt work that way.

so im not sure exactly waht your problem with me is but that isnt real important either.

so to ask ME what brought the buildings down, ultimatly it was gravity. what was the cause of it? cant say 100%, i am not trained to build things. i am however trained to blow them up.

Originally posted by Damocles
so im not sure exactly waht your problem with me is but that isnt real important either.

so to ask ME what brought the buildings down, ultimatly it was gravity. what was the cause of it? cant say 100%, i am not trained to build things. i am however trained to blow them up.

Well maybe my problem with you was when you made a small insult about me.

I have been doing research into the truth of what happened on 911 for a long time, i have acess to government research websites and websites for tracking terrorist and have a lot of information that proves the offical story is full of holes and missing a lot of information.

Along with the information i have found was the statment i made that the towers were brought down by thermite reactions, these reactions could have been caused by the planes themselves.

Also maybe you can tell me if you know about the following types of exposives and cutters since the explosive expert. Oh and can you tell me what a rocket wrench is and what it is used for.

www.valis.cjb.cc...

Dear Mr. Gould and Mr. Boyd

Re: Were oil company bombs, cutters used to 'pull' WTC #7?

A former (1965-1980) Schlumberger field engineer and researcher into computerized real-world data fusion, I am now a forensic economist investigating the special weapons and tactics (SWAT) teams used to execute the precise and co-ordinated series of attacks on 9/11.

I invite the board of directors of both of your companies to investigate the possible use of oil company remote-controlled bomb and cutter technologies by as-yet unidentified organizations which decided to ‘pull’ – industry jargon for demolish – WTC building #7.

WTC#7 became the first steel-frame building in history to collapse through fire. The collapse generated pools of molten steel in the debris piles at the site, consistent with the ignition of chemical (thermite) cutters pre-positioned by wireline inside its structural box columns and the remote-controlled detonation of atomized aluminum powder or ‘rocket fuel’ bombs in segregated column sections.

Schlumberger’s “Casing and Tubing Cutters” document has, “Cutters used to sever tubing or casing .. Jet cutters cut casing in a flat plane perpendicular to the casing wall. Chemical cutters burn the casing .. Applications: .. Burr- and flare-free cutting with chemical cutters; Bomb for heavy drillpipe or casing [base of box columns 4” thick]”.

oh the insult i sent you a u2u explaining and stated that it wsnt meant to be an insult and what i meant by it in general? that one? or some other one i dont even know of?

rocket wrench huh? well too bad my post history before august of last year is gone. ive stated REPEATEDLY that im an expert in the use and characteristics of MILITARY explosives (us army) and that as most civilian stuff is watered down military grade, i still feel qualified to discuss it. yes im aware of many sites and companies that sell specialized demolitions equipement. ive also said i doubt that if the usgovt was going to demo the buildings they would use commercial materials becuse that leaves a papertrail. so either 'rocket wrench' is some slang term for something i did use or, tis a civillan thing that ive never used. i would have had no reason to as i had all the materials and tools i ever needed for any demo shots ive ever rigged.

lastly, and this is the part i dotn get becuause i dont know if you just dont read my posts in whole or what...but, I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED, ive also qualified those statements with 'but i could be wrong' adn im always willing to admit when i am.

ive never discussed thermite in depth as ive said that my own experience with it is limited but from waht i do know i dont think that anythign is indicative of preplace thermite cutter charges.

as to your article specifically...i think he's going to come up blank. everyone is investigating what happend and many of them are just dying to find some evidence of govt compliciyt. i dotn think they'll find it.

im glad you have access to govt computers. since i got sick and left the military i cant access those anymore but i do know they did have some great information. though you being at nsa probably have access to stuff they never cross linked to our networks.

so go read your u2u's...i really cant understand how a seemingly very intelligent person is still so wound up over something i meant in seriouisness with a bit of levity.

you mean this one

www.global-security-solutions.com...

see, i looked it up AFTER i made my last post because ill be damned if ill sacrifice my integrity by looking something up and claiming im an expert on it. im not. as an engineer we didnt worry about defusing our own bombs. and the only time i did eod work was when we couldnt get bomb squad support in time. if i had to work on a bomb, id either do it the old fashioned way and hope to hell i walked out alive or id just blow in place.

ive said ive done eod work, never said that was my primary area of expertise.

but what next, want me to explain the internal workings of an m8a1 cad?
how bout what a triple nickel 40 is?


[edit on 7-2-2007 by Damocles]

Originally posted by Damocles
you mean this one

www.global-security-solutions.com...

see, i looked it up AFTER i made my last post because ill be damned if ill sacrifice my integrity by looking something up and claiming im an expert on it. im not. as an engineer we didnt worry about defusing our own bombs. and the only time i did eod work was when we couldnt get bomb squad support in time. if i had to work on a bomb, id either do it the old fashioned way and hope to hell i walked out alive or id just blow in place.

ive said ive done eod work, never said that was my primary area of expertise.

but what next, want me to explain the internal workings of an m8a1 cad?
how bout what a triple nickel 40 is?


[edit on 7-2-2007 by Damocles]

I just wanted to let you know that i do know something or can find out about explosives and have the resources to research almost all the details of 911.

I have never said or am i trying to find any evidence that the government was behind 911. As stated i am trying to find the truth of what really happened that day.

and ill apologize if ive insinuated that you couldnt, and never meant to imply you thought the govt was behind anything.

i feel we've had a miscommunication and i hope we can move forward and focus on given topics

Originally posted by Damocles
and ill apologize if ive insinuated that you couldnt, and never meant to imply you thought the govt was behind anything.

i feel we've had a miscommunication and i hope we can move forward and focus on given topics

Maybe you can answer this for me. If the planes aluminum became molten due to the fires, what would happen if molten aluminum came into contact wiwth the following materials.

Steel
Concrete
Magnesium and other flammable metals
Oxygen Generators
Oxygen Tanks
Graphite and other composite materials

Pls this post is about the SOUTH TOWER TILT. I don't want to hear garbage about natural thermite reactions.

Anyone can see the improbability of a bunch of materials magically mixing together in the correct amounts, fixing themselves on the columns and burning through them, in the chaos of an aircraft impact.

Again thermite needs IRON OXIDE (rust), where did that come from? And it needs POWDERED aluminum, not molten. And it needs an extremely high temp to set it off, jet fuel does not burn hot enough.

Conventional thermite reactions require very high temperatures for initiation. These cannot be reached with conventional black-powder fuses, nitrocellulose rods, detonators, or other common igniting substances. Even when the thermite is hot enough to glow bright red, it will not ignite as it must be at or near white-hot to initiate the reaction. It is possible to start the reaction using a propane torch if done right, but this should never be attempted for safety reasons. The torch can preheat the entire pile of thermite which will make it explode instead of burning slowly when it finally reaches ignition temperature.

So if any reaction did miraculously happen it would more likely just explode and not effect the columns at all.

Originally posted by ANOK
Pls this post is about the SOUTH TOWER TILT. I don't want to hear garbage about natural thermite reactions.

Anyone can see the improbability of a bunch of materials magically mixing together in the correct amounts, fixing themselves on the columns and burning through them, in the chaos of an aircraft impact.

Again thermite needs IRON OXIDE (rust), where did that come from? And it needs POWDERED aluminum, not molten. And it needs an extremely high temp to set it off, jet fuel does not burn hot enough.

Conventional thermite reactions require very high temperatures for initiation. These cannot be reached with conventional black-powder fuses, nitrocellulose rods, detonators, or other common igniting substances. Even when the thermite is hot enough to glow bright red, it will not ignite as it must be at or near white-hot to initiate the reaction. It is possible to start the reaction using a propane torch if done right, but this should never be attempted for safety reasons. The torch can preheat the entire pile of thermite which will make it explode instead of burning slowly when it finally reaches ignition temperature.

So if any reaction did miraculously happen it would more likely just explode and not effect the columns at all.

Do you know what happens to magnesium when it burns? its almost the same as a thermite reaction. If water hits it while burning thier would be a very explosive chemical reaction

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Do you know what happens to magnesium when it burns? its almost the same as a thermite reaction. If water hits it while burning thier would be a very explosive chemical reaction

Sry to be so blunt but so what?

Do you really think there would be enough magnesium to burn long enough and hot enough to cause enough damage to the massive central core for it to completely collapse?

C'mon man, I wouldn't buy that theory with your money.

Anyway the topic is the physics of the South Tower tilt, in case we had forgot. Magnesium or not it still doesn't explain how the building defied the laws of physics.

Originally posted by ANOK
Anyway the topic is the physics of the South Tower tilt, in case we had forgot. Magnesium or not it still doesn't explain how the building defied the laws of physics.

Yes but its but its a better theory then the building collapsing from the planes and fire. We know the planes or fire did not cause the building to collapse and thermite reactions would explain the molten metals in the basements of all the builidngs that collapsed.