Iran demands Return of Nationals from US Custody

Originally posted by ferretman2

The Iranian liaison office in Irbil did not yet have full consular diplomatic status

no international laws were broken.

maybe these iranians were helping the insurgency.........

In that case wouldn't you want them captured?

How do you know they are innocent?

('you' meaning general person)

We still cant get a straight answer as to whether or not the men captured had diplomatic immunity or not. Until then, no one should rush to judgements.

And even if the men who were caught were helping to train the insurgency, this country has a legal obligation to release them, no matter what. If we dont, all American diplomats in Iran could be drug out into the streets of Tehran and shot the next day.

The law is the law, and it needs to be respected. I suggest everyone chill with their rhetoric until we see how this all plays out.

Originally posted by makeitso

Originally posted by Edn
And I thought the US was there to help Iraq, it seams they don't give a dam what the Iraqi government wants.

Well, thats strange. I dont see anything in the article you linked that says Iraq was upset about it.

Perhaps I can help you with that.

Mithal Alusi, a member of the (Iraqi) National Parliament, charged that the detainees were Iranian intelligence officers involved in terrorist activities in northern Iraq. He insisted that they did not have diplomatic status.

U.S. raids in northern Iraq nab several Iranians

Funny you should pick out that paragraph from that article, riped out on its own its paints a very different picture but lets read some other parts of the article shall we.

Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshayr Zebari called the U.S. raids "very, very embarrassing." One resulted in the arrest of legitimate Iranian diplomats and the second nearly triggered a gunfight between American and local Iraqi security forces, he said.

...

Iraqi Foreign Minister Zebari, however, told McClatchy Newspapers that the Iranian office had operated in Irbil for more than 10 years and the Iranians were in Iraq legally. "This is very, very embarrassing," he said. "The Iraqi government was aware of who was in that office."

Later Thursday, U.S. forces staged a second raid, attempting to enter Irbil airport and abduct a group of unidentified individuals, he said.

Members of a Kurdish paramilitary force known as peshmerga confronted the Americans when they refused to identify themselves, and a gun battle was narrowly averted "at the 11th hour," said Zebari.

He said U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad told him that the first raid was aimed at people who were trying to harm U.S. troops. Khalilzad said he was unaware of the operation at the airport.

I'm sorry but Bush and his troops are playing a very dangerous game, there deliberately keeping the Iraqi government out of the loop on some of there operations, not to mention Bush needs a reality check, more troops and more aggressive stratagys is no way to stabilize a country, how do I know? Britain has been fighting in Ireland for 20 years and know how this kind of situation needs to be handled, and raiding buildings and abducting people doesn't help at all.

Mezzanine
We still cant get a straight answer as to whether or not the men captured had diplomatic immunity or not. Until then, no one should rush to judgement.

How much higher can you go for confirmation than the statement of the Deputy Speaker of the Iraqi Parliament?

Mithal Alusi, a member of the (Iraqi) National Parliament, charged that the detainees were Iranian intelligence officers involved in terrorist activitiesin northern Iraq. He insisted that they did not have diplomatic status.

U.S. raids in northern Iraq nab several Iranians

MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE-IRAQ
COMBINED PRESS INFORMATION CENTER
BAGHDAD, Iraq – Coalition Forces continue investigations into the activities of five Iranian nationals detained in Irbil on Jan. 11. Preliminary results revealed the five detainees are connected to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard – Qods Force (IRGC-QF), an organization known for providing funds, weapons, improvised explosive device technology and training to extremist groups attempting to destabilize the Government of Iraq and attack Coalition forces.

The facility in which the detention took place has been described by various Iraqi officials as an Iranian liaison office, but it did not enjoy the diplomatic status of a consulate according to Iraqi and U.S. officials.

Mezzanine
And even if the men who were caught were helping to train the insurgency, this country has a legal obligation to release them, no matter what.

We should release them no mater what? Even though they don't have diplomatic immunity? Do you have a reference for that law?

Mezzanine
The law is the law, and it needs to be respected.

Correct.
At this point in time it appears that the Coalition Forces were well within the law, and the detainees were not. That needs to be respected.


[edit on 1/15/07 by makeitso]

The game Bush is playing in Iraq is putting our troops and the Iraqi government in a precarious situation in which anybody can get hurt.

But as we already know Bush has a thing for acting in his war path with littler, misguided or not intelligent at all.

Taking into consideration that the Iraqi government is divided and that one side disagree with the now elected minister and his goal on getting into diplomatic talks with Iran while the other side depends on the US its promise of democracy, profits and capitalism, we now may see a clash of groups either working with the US and against the US all within the same Iraqi government.

But as everything that has to do with Bush he care less who and how many he steps on in his way to fulfill his goal.

Be Iraqis, our own soldiers, the American people or just the evil Iranians.

No even Bush own political party can control him and his madness.

So Iran wants it's Political Officers back right now?

I figure Iran can wait for say ... oh ... 392 more days.

Tick tick tick indeed...the clock is ticking down to doomsday... I can just see it. My own corrupt government is going to start a terrible war...I can't do anything about it.

Originally posted by makeitso

We should release them no mater what? Even though they don't have diplomatic immunity?

Do you have a reference for that law?


Correct.
At this point in time it appears that the Coalition Forces were well within the law, and the detainees were not. That needs to be respected.

If you hadnt decided to take what I said out of context just because you disagree with me you would have known that I meant the men should only be released if they have diplomatic immunity.

And the reason that I said that we still dont know what exactly happened is because there are several different sources inside the Iraqi government who have said that these men are diplomats, and as such, are protected.

Just because one of the leaders of a government says one thing, that doesnt necessarily make it true, especially when several other sources are contradicting him (And also when the higher ups in the Iraqi Government are known to do or say pretty much whatever the US Government asks them to do).

Mezzanine
I meant the men should only be released if they have diplomatic immunity.

Thank you for clarifying, that makes more sense.

Mezzanine
there are several different sources inside the Iraqi government who have said that these men are diplomats, and as such, are protected.

Ah, I see. Do you have any references/links?

makeitso,

You want references and links for what reason? You can pull some out off the internet very beautifully, congratulations.

May I ask you, makeitso, does the U.S have a list of all Revolutionary Guards in Iran and was this listed used to confirm that the 6 detained were involved in terrorist activities? Has the U.S issued any evidence of this other than vague conjecture? Even the BBC will admit that the U.S provides little if not any evidence for their repeated and prolixly claims that Iran is interfering in the insurgency.

Does the U.S government have such a complex network that after capturing 6 Iranians they can ascertain only hours and days after the evet their guilt? Amazing, to bad it's failed in some of the most important aspects in this war on terrorism: Osama Bin Laden and 9/11. No?

You also mentioned that the Iraqies have committed acts of criminality towards Iranian buildings in Iraq. Thank you for proving that the U.S's efforts to promote peace and rational conscious all over Iraq is an utter and complete failure and more so for proving how a small faction can somehow reflect the entire nation of Iraq's view on Iranians in their country.

The Iranian building was under legal issues coming about to become a consulate but I would wonder who would find this detrimental to their own interests? Hm....let's think here, who just decided to destroy the bloody building? Americans...of course !

Luxifero




[edit on 16-1-2007 by Luxifero]

The iranians were in a consulate? o something minor wernt they?
It was about to have Embassy STATUS, but it wasnt there yet, there fore the Americans/Iraq's have as much RIGHT to arrest and detain as if thye were any other commmon insurgent.

Im more curious as to why they waited until NOW to capture them being the country is in so much strife..
Obviously Iran are going to demand theyre release, but should we refuse... what can Iran do?

I dont think they will be willing to start the war everyone knows is coming, over a few minor operatives who supposidly, wernt operating in that sense anyways.

More than likley, I think 'some' will be released, some will be detained and interrogated and Iran will refuse any assistance to the Iraqi government in subduing the insurgency.

They wont say they are AIDING them, they will simply say they arent going to take action against it, when Iraqi/America obviously care more about Iran than the insurgents.

Originally posted by makeitso

Originally posted by Edn
And I thought the US was there to help Iraq, it seams they don't give a dam what the Iraqi government wants.

Well, thats strange. I dont see anything in the article you linked that says Iraq was upset about it.

Perhaps I can help you with that.

Nice little bit of research there, makeitso. You've earned a WATS.

Iran has been operating with impunity in Iraq, from supplying the insurgency with sophisticated shape charges to training terrorists. They constantly stick their thumb in our eye because of their wacked-out leadership, and because they know that the US will bear the brunt of international criticism for any action taken. If incidents such as these cause tensions to escalate between the US and Iran, Iran is the one to blame. But you won't get a lot of support here for that position.

You have voted makeitso for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

IRANIAN ARRESTED IN ERBIL IS WANTED IN AUSTRIA

Tehran, 17 Jan. (AKI) - One of the five Iranians arrested last week by the US army in the northern Iraqi city of Erbil is wanted in Austria in connection with the assassination of Kurdish leader Andol Rahman Ghassemlu in 1989. Mahommad Jaafari Sharoudi was one of five Iranian officials detained last week in the Kurdish-controlled city on charges of being connected to a faction of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, the Pasdaran, that funds and arms insurgents in Iraq.

According to the Austrian police, the killers escaped arrest by hiding in Iran's embassy in Vienna.

Looks like this bad boy might have to sit out for the rest of the war.













[edit on 1/17/07 by makeitso]