All Christians should back Isreal's would be nuclear showdown

CW, i know enough about christians and christianity to speak on whether a good christian follower should or should not do something according to their faith

i say, a good christian seeks peace
not war
that's what the guy known as jesus wanted
"turn the other cheek"

Originally posted by ConstantlyWondering
Isn't it far to say that if a nation rises up and breaks nuclear treaty that act is an act of war?

You mean like obtaining any nuclear weapons, such as what Israel has done? You will have to show me how this is Israel "defending" it's borders, when they're the offenders. If you're so adamant on supporting anything Israel does, would you support every assassination attempt they've committed on leaders, their attack of the USS Liberty, and all of the innocent Palestinian people they've killed and oppressed? What would Jesus say about that?

Seems to me you want to act as Israel's friend only because you want them to convert to your faith. You don't find this deceptive at all? What do you think will happen to the Israeli citizens who choose not to convert from their Jewish faith? Will you treat them as criminals, when Jesus comes, because they worship the same God Moses and Jesus worshiped, but choose not to worship Jesus? Do you understand that the majority of Israelis are not Jewish by race, but by religion? Do you understand that the OT Israelites are all over the world, including the current people of Afghanistan?

Hello there,
I'm sorry to say it but this seems awfully old testiment. Are you going to sacrifice a sheep? Did you work today (sunday). Would you turn the other cheek? Would you welcome a known crimminal into your home and treat him as an equal? Whatever your answers are they are yours to keep. As are your believes. I guess I'm really confused on the weight you are putting on what seems to me a very loose interpretation of the joshua verse.

I don't believe war is the answer and i agree that this would cause a greater epidemic that would eventually get other countries involved.

what would jesus bomb?

My biggest concern here is your censorship though. A title such as yours will bring Nuc readers, christians, israeli's, and of course hypochristians together. This brings diversity to your thread, which no doubt will bring more productivity. Even though there might be some tension.

Originally posted by ConstantlyWondering
Please studied Christians should post ONLY........thanks!

Just because you don't like my answer, doesn't mean I'm not a studied Christian. I'll leave you to looking for answers that you want to hear.

Turning the other cheek and all that, you know.

Here I thought, loving one's friends was not an achievement , that praying for and loving one's enemies was the challenge.
Wasn't it the dala lama who kicked off the millennia with the injunction to pray for one's enemies. I had a vision the night the young monk made his walk out of Tibet in secret. It was the longest vision I've ever had, lasting a good twenty minutes. It was auditory. I heard music that sounded like the angels singing. Music of the highest order, more melodious and beautiful than anything I've ever heard on earth. Slowly it descended in key and voice flowing seamlessly into lower octaves until it rested on the chanted om.

What is life but a pilgrimage and happy is he who loves God and the highest orders of the heavens more than life.

Christians would be better served praying for a peaceful and satisfactory solution for all involved. If thy enemy offends thee, turn the other cheek.


[edit on 8-1-2007 by clearwater]

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[edit on 8/1/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Limiting discussion to a certain group of people goes against the rules of this sight. I should NOT have said Christians only. I do pay more attention of course to the practicing Christians but that is my own discrection. I and nobodyelse has the right to limit who can commit on these threads. This is another reason why ATS is popular and growing everyday.

Back to topic--I was under the impression that the Isreali nation is to be befriended, protected and preserved. I was also lead to believe that we should never leave Isreal's side and be her ally. But several very good points were made my DJmessiah among others.

I had to rethink and ask myself-

-What about the US Liberty and some of the assasinations sponsored or flat out proformed by Isreal.

Thank you DJmessiah for your help. I appreciate the input and will be focusing on what you and others have said about Isreal before I draw an opinion from what I have been taught on the matter. Learning is a wonderful thing and ATS is a good source for educated answers.

wow, great respoonse CW! i look forward to your future posts on or near this topic.

It was a very mature and polite response. I'm happy I could have given you my views on it. Though, I have love for all humanity, including Israelis, it's their government and their policies on others with what I have objections to. They want to set up a Jewish state, but the government have broken almost every commandment God prescribed to them.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
It was a very mature and polite response. I'm happy I could have given you my views on it. Though, I have love for all humanity, including Israelis, it's their government and their policies on others with what I have objections to. They want to set up a Jewish state, but the government have broken almost every commandment God prescribed to them.

well, at least the government of israel hasn't committed adultery or coveted it's neighbors wives...

heheee
anyway, i have no problems with israelis
i actually know quite a few
however, i do have a problem with a state that is built around a military structure (pretty much every household has 1+ reservist)

well, at least the government of israel hasn't committed adultery or coveted it's neighbors wives...

heheee
anyway, i have no problems with israelis
i actually know quite a few
however, i do have a problem with a state that is built around a military structure (pretty much every household has 1+ reservist)

I think their right to exist is unquestionable but to base it on religion is not acceptable. Freedom of religion and freedom not to believe are a must in a democracy. Despite how much we disagree with each others opinion I would still insist that you have the right to disagree with me. When Foxnews or any other anchor says that Isreal is the only democracy in the Middle East I have to think about it a second. But when I compare our democracy to any other, ours in the US is tops! For example our military is totally volunteer, our farmers over produce enough for the US to give food away and we do, anyone can openly disagree with the government and not live in fear,....etc. Not to mention that the US flag also stands alone on the surface of the Moon! I am sure their are many other examples but these are the few that standout to me the most.

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 10/1/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by DJMessiah
It was a very mature and polite response. I'm happy I could have given you my views on it. Though, I have love for all humanity, including Israelis, it's their government and their policies on others with what I have objections to. They want to set up a Jewish state, but the government have broken almost every commandment God prescribed to them.

Thank you but I would have to throw that same compliment right back to you and others in this grand forum. Your politeness is the norm for you and greatly appreciated. I have revised my own way of posting to comply with the rules of ATS like I should have in the first place and I will be subscribing to your post as well.

Now back to topic--

You made several good examples to your opinion that I have known for awhile but never put it all together. The US Liberty was the event that stands out for me. I am shocked and confused about the lack of response from our own government on this event in history. Can you give me some ATS threads on this subject that you have read and found insightful? Thank you for your help!

Originally posted by whoknew
i agree that this would cause a greater epidemic that would eventually get other countries involved.

what would jesus bomb?

Two very good points you made.

1. What would Isreal's neighbors do if this were to happen. I am sure that they would not just sit it out. I hope we don't have to find out....

2. Who would Jesus bomb? Still thinking but the answer is obvious and your point is clearly taken.

Thanking all of you for your input. I see Isreal in a different light than I have before thanks to the input of all of you....

Originally posted by Duzey

Originally posted by ConstantlyWondering
Please studied Christians should post ONLY........thanks!

Just because you don't like my answer, doesn't mean I'm not a studied Christian. I'll leave you to looking for answers that you want to hear.

Turning the other cheek and all that, you know.

Good point. I have repented from that stance which is against the rule of this great forum. Everybodies opinion matters or none do. Promoting freedom and democracy in one sentence and asking that only a certain group of people participate is not democracy at all. Sorry for being a hypocrite. Thank you again for your input.

Originally posted by clearwater
Here I thought, loving one's friends was not an achievement , that praying for and loving one's enemies was the challenge.
Wasn't it the dala lama who kicked off the millennia with the injunction to pray for one's enemies. I had a vision the night the young monk made his walk out of Tibet in secret. It was the longest vision I've ever had, lasting a good twenty minutes. It was auditory. I heard music that sounded like the angels singing. Music of the highest order, more melodious and beautiful than anything I've ever heard on earth. Slowly it descended in key and voice flowing seamlessly into lower octaves until it rested on the chanted om.

What is life but a pilgrimage and happy is he who loves God and the highest orders of the heavens more than life.

Christians would be better served praying for a peaceful and satisfactory solution for all involved. If thy enemy offends thee, turn the other cheek.


[edit on 8-1-2007 by clearwater]

I couldn't add anymore to that. That was beautiful.

BUT--I just don't see how a nation, if attacked by Nuclear Weapons could just turn the other cheek. Now if a person was individually attacked personnally or physically by another individual I can see that "turn the other cheek" working. I just don't think that it would work for a nation that is attacked with WMDs. Thank you for your input. I have to say you have made some good points....

Originally posted by I See You
Hmmm. Who says religion and war don't coexist?

I think you make a good point there too. Religion is responsible for many wars in history. I am afraid that won't change ever.

Originally posted by Duzey

I don't think any Christian would be required to help Isreal expand territory. How can a Christian support killing someone to take their land? To be quite honest, I think wanting to expand borders to gain land (field) is coveting. Between murder and coveting your neighbour's land, 2 of the commandments are being broken.

I'm not feeling a Christian duty to abet these sins.

I will have to study this one. I have a conflict inside my head on that because you make an excellent point about the coveting and murdering to take land. But if it is in the name of fulfilling God's will then I would have to say go go go Isreal. I am still out on this but I thank you for the valuable info...

Originally posted by ConstantlyWondering
Can you give me some ATS threads on this subject that you have read and found insightful? Thank you for your help!

To date, the investigation regarding the attack of the USS Liberty has been closed, because the government does not want it to hurt US-Israeli relations, no matter how many Liberty survivors have asked for a further investigation.

Here are some links regarding the USS Liberty, as well as discussions that go into the details of the attack (in no particular order):

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...