UFO photos are a complete waste of time!

I see that this O'hare airport sighting is getting some news coverage.

This is simply a flash in the pan that will stir some excitement among those naive hopefuls in the ufo community, but it will evaporate in minutes, leaving nary a thought in anyone's mind.

The same happened with the NASA video and every other significant video. The NASA videos haven't even been acknowledged in the media...this is the virtually insurmountable obstacle that disclosure and exposure faces.

It's clear to me that these sorts of superficial events will continue, and leave behind virtually no trace they existed.

It occurred to me also that if we were to see a mass sighting that extended around the planet - a sighting witnessed by virtually every person on the planet, and then these craft departed, we would be left precisely where we are now.

In other words, these craft can show up as much as they want, but unless there is a continued and personal, two-way interaction and conversation between ourselves and these beings, then these sightings amount to an exercise simply to open our minds to the possibility (i.e., the same thing that has been done for decades already), and as such would simply be a disappointment.

These are only my immediate thoughts on this matter...there's the possibility that a conversation is going on right now with other people, but that's another matter entirely...

Here's a quote from an NBC News space analyst regarding the O'hare incident:

NBC News space analyst James Oberg - a longtime UFO skeptic - says the evidence that's come to light so far isn't all that compelling"...."It's just sad that we keep getting these reports which are of zero evidential value," he told me. "It's sad because there's a lot of strange stuff in the air that we do need to know."

SOURCE

And I bet even if this guy sees a photograph he'll make his own judgment call and the rest will be left to his imagination like so many other "sighting" events.

All of these separate witnesses are going to go about their lives with a mystery, and a new appreciation for their lives, but that's about it.

A dozen photographs of an event such as this would only present more questions than answers, and as has happened in all previous evidentiary cases, would simply boil down to opinions and conversation pieces until memories of the event are as faded or uninteresting as any other mundane event.



[edit on 5-1-2007 by OnTheDeck]

[edit on 5-1-2007 by OnTheDeck]

I think that it is very fair to say that first-glance-convincing evidence is definitely necessary for any theory to be proven...

BUT - I'm also saying that one should consider (NOT EXCEPT, just consider) any evidence and study it whether it is real or not. If it's fake, then you just acquired a new tool in which to determine what should be referred to as hoax or potential!

Merely rejecting all evidence or accepting it all to be real is like saying, "Either I drive my car to the moon on an empty tank of gas to get to our destination, or I overload it with gas, lock us in, and flick flick ba-boom."

I'm gonna fess up here and say that when I first got here I thought you people who thought the moon landing was fake were kinda weird.

I won't even say what I thought about you New World Order freaks.

Ok, I will.

I pictured most of you to be like a hybrid version of Rain Man who's genes were spliced with a monkey taking acid. And the remainder like the kid from Mercury Rising trying to cuddle with a rabid squirrel.

HOWEVER -- (i hope everyone got to read the however)

Flipping through all the gathered supportive evidence of various topics, I felt like I had really kinda cheated myself out of possibly hundreds more experiences just by saying how ridiculous the first piece of evidence had appeared to me.

I haven't changed my mind about you people that think there's albino epileptic satanic baby eating symbiont psychic stripper zombie mole people or whatever living underground though.

I still find you people really disturbing. Don't touch my children.



hehe j/k


My sweet, innocent Black Eyed Children who Walk The Rows.

My only problem with photographic evidence is that there is hardly ever photographic evidence of the same event with multiple pictures from different sources.

If we had that, than the credibility is increased considerably.

Every picture is worth looking at however. Because once you start dismissing the "single photo events", you may be missing out on something that may very well prove to be true.

I am very skeptical of photographs when they first appear. It is in my nature, I guess. But I do look at them, and try to be objective in my views but I find it increasingly more difficult with each hoax picture that is uncovered.

But to say "UFO photos are a complete waste of time!", as in the title of this thread, I say no. That is not a correct assumption.





[edit on 1/5/2007 by Mechanic 32]

Originally posted by Mechanic 32
My only problem with photographic evidence is that there is hardly ever photographic evidence of the same event with multiple pictures from different sources. If we had that, than the credibility is increased considerably.

I think this is a valid point also made by Hank but surely, isn't the point that if just ONE of these things were PROVED, it automatically means many more things such as....We are being LIED to.

Every picture is worth looking at however. Because once you start dismissing the "single photo events", you may be missing out on something that may very well prove to be true.

Show me one. In 50 years, where is the video, photo or anything that proves anything?

The nature of the beast is designed to have us dumb humans running around in circles. We've done it for 50 years and we'll do it for another 50 unless we start looking at this whole phenomena from a completely different angle.

I am very skeptical of photographs when they first appear. It is in my nature, I guess. But I do look at them, and try to be objective in my views but I find it increasingly more difficult with each hoax picture that is uncovered.

Why? To what end? What does it do for you? If you already know or believe, you don't need it. If you don't believe, I categorically state that no photo will change that.

But to say "UFO photos are a complete waste of time!", as in the title of this thread, I say no. That is not a correct assumption.

Only because it is not an assumption.


[edit on 5/1/07 by Prote]

The above post of mine, was only an opinion.

Originally posted by Prote

But to say "UFO photos are a complete waste of time!", as in the title of this thread, I say no. That is not a correct assumption.

Only because it is not an assumption.

But since you added this bit...

Okay, since it is not an assumption, does this mean that you are asserting it as a fact?

Is so, prove it.

Even if we never, ever find any evidence through photographs, at least it will not have been because of total ignorance. To weigh all the evidence, you must look at all sides of an issue, no matter how absurd it might seem.



2 more cents.

Originally posted by Mechanic 32
The above post of mine, was only an opinion.

And it is most welcome.

Originally posted by Mechanic 32
Okay, since it is not an assumption, does this mean that you are asserting it as a fact?

Is so, prove it.

Therein lies the problem. Calls for proof for something unprovable. Futility personified akin to the point of the thread. It's a waste of time. Everything is dismissable.

We need to embrace certain things WITHOUT proof in order to advance to the next level. We are in a rut, a brick wall and it's our conditioning that's stopping a mass wake up. Once people see how blatantly obvious it is, perhaps some pressure can be levied onto the powers that hold the secrets.

My 2 cents.

Originally posted by Prote
Therein lies the problem. Calls for proof for something unprovable.

I know. I was just yankin' your chain on that.

But it does not necessarily mean that Ufo photo's are an entire waste of time.

It's ok by me if you feel that UFO photos are worth any time and effort to scrutinise. I would not include photos as being a waste of time if it was one facet to a much larger story containing other evidence.

However, I specifically restricted the thread to UFO Photos to make the point. OnTheDeck stretched it further by adding other media into the fray. From the lack of support from members who feel that photo's are worth the trouble, I'd say, there is an important message here.

With all the evidence that exists yet the majority of the planet doubts it or doesn't think about it goes to show the extent of the problem. No proof required for all the bizarre religions out there but capture a craft doing a 90 degree turn in Earths orbit, presidents coming out with it and the million other events I could list just isn't good enough.

Either I'm a freaking lunatic or the planet is rather drowsy. Take yer pick.

[edit on 5/1/07 by Prote]

I wonder what this could be...?

www.surfin.com.au...

Over the short time I have been looking at ATS I have seen many dodgy photos of UFO's where the jist of the post has been that the "Amaing UFO pic" of the thread title is proof positive of a powered craft piloted by none Home Sapien entities.

Ok the first hurdle is, is it unidentified? How long does that debate go on?
Then if it is unidentified the bent is towards a flying saucer type scenario.

On these pages I have seen every thing from seagulls to mobile phones claimed as UFO's. Ok the phone was a hoaxer. But the debate over that seagull and its $30,000 dollar price tag. I don't always instantly see anything. But with that it was obviously a seagull. For days afterwards intelligent people still believed it was a "flying saucer". I was getting worried, were those really seagulls near me or a UFO invasion fleet?

I see these photos of UFO fleets over Mexico and see flocks of birds.

Thing is we are now at a stage where nearly every man jack of us in western society have a camera of some sort. Most phones have a photo / video capability. Myself I got a couple of camcorders, two phones, two digital cameras and a (cheap) stereo film camera.

Now I realise that not every camera is going to be capable of producing quality pics but surely the fact that more of us are carrying or have access to a camera and are more aware that something may be in the sky, should lead to more photos. More photos mean eventually a quality print will come through. But it aint happened yet. Maybe its just a matter of time.

But for now I think pictures are a waste of time but its all we got. So much sky to fill. Even that big triangular thing Nick Pope said flew over the UK a few years ago, if it were photographed (mind you it was at night) would the quality itself be enough to prove owt? We would still need more than one pic and it would need corroborating info.

One of the biggest problems I see is that we have some ever so gullible believers and some very poor pranksters, does the cause little good.
Still generally ATS smokes out the crud. Well done all...

SS out

Originally posted by Prote
It's ok by me if you feel that UFO photos are worth any time and effort to scrutinise. I would not include photos as being a waste of time if it was one facet to a much larger story containing other evidence.

However, I specifically restricted the thread to UFO Photos to make the point. OnTheDeck stretched it further by adding other media into the fray. From the lack of support from members who feel that photo's are worth the trouble, I'd say, there is an important message here.

Well then you sir are wrong, and therefore subject to persecution! Evidence? Make the Point? WHAT MANNER OF SORCERY IS THIS?

Ok I'll post some freakin' photos jeesh.

3 shots in ONE SCENE of ufo (happy now? B) )


Innerstellar Escalade.
***You guys are gonna bash me on this... don't wanna spoil your thought on the pic, so I'm posting this at the end***

Deja Vu? Notice the similarities. Also, this photo seems to suggest a USO.

A 5 pic saucer spread, you dirty boy!

Lur's Detailing & Disc Wash

how much u wanna bet itsa ufo?

Hope the cops don't get thier hands on one of these.

EL MUCHO DISCO

Again, another photo displaying a metal finish. The surrounding landscape makes it easier to imagine size and distance.

Japanese 1970 photo. Probably the best I've ever seen for 1970.

83 years old, runnin around with a camera? Not too bad.

**OKAY, NOW MY THOUGHTS. I'M SORRY, but there's no way a little gray/green/scaley/demon mole man made this thing. Too classy. It looks like a damn Ferrarri! Definitely human. Compare to saucer shape ufos from like a couple ys ago. Aliens want their ride to look like a hat or vegas-inspired outhouse. Oh yeah, that's IF they're real... I forgot.

Geez, they evolved to the age where spandex is the ultimate cool and still gotta drive around in a bucket still? You're not abducting me in that thing. I got a rep to uphold.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Sorcery? Don't know much about that.

Are these images proof? if so, what of? and for who?

What impact and benefit does it have on UFOlogy and the question of whether or not other beings are coming to our planet?

I do not need to see a photo to know we are not alone. I do not need to be Einstein to know that an overwhelming amount of footage is indeed easily explainable by mundane and some not so mundane phenomena or objects.

It only takes ONE of these images to be real to have serious consequences. The problem is, of the millions of photos, not one single one of them is or will ever be accepted by any credible community to be proof of ET visiting. Simple As.

I will even go one stage further and say that a lot of this is harmful to the whole issue. Especially with technology, hoaxers can replicate anything with enough nouse and resource about them and when hoardes of people claim a fleet of UFO's when it is clearly not just makes the whole group look stupid and gullible. Does anyone else see how the gov blowing off sightings as balloons works when people are posting pictures of UFO's that ARE balloons.

How many people witnessed the Phoenix Lights, photos, video, testimony, the works. What about Belgium? What about, what about, what about? yet there are still several disclosure threads per week. The subject is confusing itself into a knot.

If we must pick apart photos, then there should be protocols to doing it, why doesn't ATS have such a thing, or is that the fair skeptics again? Hence one of the original questions....

What elements of a UFO photo will prove it is an alien craft? What should we be looking for in every photo (lacking other corroborating evidence) that would satisfy EVERYONE on the conclusion. If it's provable, it's provable. The fact is that you can scrutinise away with every minute detail seeking an alternative explanation. If there isn't one, the conclucion is that it is inconclusive.

So how is that NOT a waste of time?

Gazrok, I would tend to agree but even if we agree that it isn't the be all and end all, is there a single historical image that CAN'T be explained? I would like to see it.

Sure, there are quite a few of these examples. I'll post some of them when I get the chance. They are older photos of course, prior to the digital manipulation age, etc.

In addition, when the photos are backed up with verified testimony, then it becomes far more than a photo. The "Battle of LA" case is a good case in point. Not only is there a photo of a UFO taken by an actual news photographer and printed in the paper, but numerous eyewitnesses, including numerous military officers, and a paper trail of the event. In addition, over 1400 AAA rounds were fired at "something" that appeared to be impervious to such fire. Is it "proof"? No. Is it good evidence? You betcha.

Has there ever been an image that PROVES a visiting, piloted craft?

Again "proof" is subjective. I could "prove" that we are made up of 90% empty space, but eh... No, of course no image could prove such a thing, no more than a photo of the sun proves it uses nuclear reactions. It's apples and oranges. However, there are photos and video evidence that defy explanation by conventional means. The Tremonton film (taken by a military officer) is a good example. Even Hyneck, one of the original paid debunkers, then turned UFOlogist, admits that conventional explanations fail the film.

If not, can someone explain to me how this benefits UFOlogy as opposed to harming it?

Hopefully, I just did.

Gazrok, Prote's contention is that ufo photos are a waste of time.

Beyond "verifying" something for your own edification, photos (and videos) serve no other purpose...

They may add to the mountain of credible evidence, but the same rule applied to these photos/videos decades ago with regard to how far they can take the subject, and this evidence has its obvious limits.

We have decades of worthwhile photos and video, but what has come of it?

If Prote's observation isn't timely and self-evident now it never will be.

I think his observation is inescapable, and should have been recognized by those with mental acumen, who first presented photo/video evidence decades ago...his comments are long overdue...

I suggest that we need to move on...

I'd then argue that "waste of time" is subjective.

If it's not true, then oh well. But if it IS true, then we're talking about the singlemost important discovery of the history of mankind.

Waste of time? Well, to each their own. That's akin to say that millions of followers Allah, God, or Buddah are "wasting their time" just because you don't believe the evidence for their existence. It's a subjective thing until "proven", and we're much further towards "proof" of alien visitation than we are with proving a deity's existence.

Many scientists spend their lives "wasting time" on far less fruitfull endeavors.....

Originally posted by OnTheDeck
Gazrok, Prote's contention is that ufo photos are a waste of time.

Beyond "verifying" something for your own edification, photos (and videos) serve no other purpose...

Not true. Time lapse photography can be very useful for showing an object's flight path and characteristics, and for a long time photography of a light source's spectrum has been a way to indentify the light source. This is how we know the composition of stars for example.The same process holds true for ufo's if spectrum can be recorded. Check this link for some info that photos of unknown light sources can provide.

www.surfin.com.au...

In short, until Science comes front and center in this discussion will will continue to be stuck at the same place as 50 years ago in my view.....

The subject of ufos and extraterrestrial sentient beings visiting our planet IS mankind's most important discovery. This is a fact! I agree.

I also KNOW that they're here - this is a belief I've developed from years and years of research that has convinced me; and if this research were presented as a court case, it would prove beyond a reasonable doubt that intelligent, extraterrestrial beings are visiting our planet, period. Case closed.

What I'm saying is that photographic (and video - my addition) evidence can only carry proof so far in that it can only open certain individuals' minds to the possibility - or act as outright proof to those individuals.

Photographs cannot offer ultimate proof of ufos and ETs, except insofar as they can influence an individual's tendency to accept the possibility - especially with the photo manipulation that is now possible. Considering our advanced ability to manufacture, or manipulate photos, the affect this evidence has is mitigated even further.

What I think Prote is saying, and I think after this post I'll leave this thread alone, is that photographic evidence is of limited value - not ETs visiting our planet - but the attempt to prove that fact via photographic evidence.

It has to be very frustrating for someone to take a good, clear photo of a ufo and have dozens of people talking about photo manipulation...

This is why our energies are best served moving the discussion to the next level - as in, Why is full-fledged contact - interpersonal, verifiable and conclusive contact not taking place yet, and if it is going to happen - then WHEN?

There is enough photographic and other evidence on the Internet alone to convince people of the fact that we are being visited. That evidence has served its purpose.

We now need to move the dialogue from the evidence to the philosophical/social level, and to try to see what the future holds for this undeniable movement that is now occurring...NOT to become embroiled in a back and forth about the credibility (or lack of) of photos...

To cjb, I just read your post. I understand that there are a thousand technological means to verify the authenticity of ufo sightings, etc.

Prote's statement is with regard to photoraphic evidence alone, but I would contend that it should extend to every conceivable method by which we could verify the authenticity of a ufo or ET sighting.

This is a train of thought that can be pursued ad infinitum. If you look at a photograph, or see a video and you are convinced that it is real, then you need no more proof.

You do not need a full, spectroscopical scan of the ufo to be convinved of its reality. To me, once I saw the NASA video, or photos/videos that convinced me I was done with the evidence and wanted to move on to the philosophical/social meaning of what I was (and am) convinced was (and is) happening.

Providing evidence is only to serve one purpose - and that is to prove to an individual of the reality or veracity of what is asserted. This can be done for those with an open mind.

Those who do not have an open mind will be waiting for the sprectroscopical analysis to tell them that the ufo isn't a top secret military craft piloted by Air Force pilots, etc. Come on - this can go on forever...

I saw the photos/videos. I do not have an inpenetrable skepticism or belief system and accepted not only the possibility, but the reality. Now it's time to sort out what my thoughts are on it, and where this might be headed.

Evidence is a merely a step in the process - it's the first step on a longer journey. You can't proceed without it, but once it's served its purpose, it's time to move on. A lot of people are on the evidentiary merry-go-round, but there's so much more to explore.

Evidence is a diving board that you need to launch you into the pool, or a boat to get you to the other shore, but once you've sprung from the diving board it's time to swim...

[edit on 6-1-2007 by OnTheDeck]

[edit on 6-1-2007 by OnTheDeck]

You are so right! Good observation! I am impressed someone finally comes out and says it! Especially with all the new O'hare stuff going on. It seems all our efforts are in Vain! Cheers!

Originally posted by OnTheDeck

We have decades of worthwhile photos and video, but what has come of it?

Hello my friend it's been a while,



Granted that by now there should be more progress of disclosure considering all the evidence there is on the table however if it wasn't for all the photo evidence and video evidence i am sure there would be even more people that dismiss the possibility of other life forms visiting our planet, don't you think so?

Trying to convince a skeptic that something is real is waste of time.

Many seem to want evidence to jump out of the bushes and bite them in the arse for them to believe anything.

I never said that these photos I posted proves anything, I posted them because someone was whining that no one was posting photos in this thread.

With that I'll let you get back to believing that the world is flat.