Is the US beyond repair

With this being the last term for GW, what should the next presidential hopeful be expecting.

I see the current state of the USA economy the way it is, as well as everything else in disarray, what should the new president expect when he takes office. Or better yet, what is expected of him/her?

Can the US government bounce back from its current state? Or is it beyond repair?

The American people are the victims of the two party system but the USA isn't beyond repair. The next occupant of the oval will be burden with Iraq and unless they can focus and put peoples minds on other issues the person in question may well only serve one term.

No grail. The US is not beyond repair. But changes do need to be made. Mainly to our horrid federal taxation system which is killing americas competitiveness out in the open market and sending jobs overseas just so corportations can stay competitive in the open market. I suggest you look at the thread titled 'FairTax. It will go a long way in fixing this country and unshackle americas economy. After much research and debate, many economist have gone on the record to say that americas economy under the fairtax in its first proposed year will grow 10.5% and by 2015 americas economy would double its current size!!! All this made possible under the fairtax which is a consumer tax and requires the repeal of the 16th amendmant. American citizens get to keep 100% of there paycheck! And NO MORE IRS!!!

Check out the fairtax discussion here on ATS. Its up to us to get this thing through. Its gaining a full head of steam so get aboard!
politics.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 043131p://5401pm by semperfoo]

I agree that changes needs to be made, but as long as our nation is in the hands of two elite parties and they have the power and money to do as they wish, we are not going anywhere.

Originally posted by marg6043
I agree that changes needs to be made, but as long as our nation is in the hands of two elite parties and they have the power and money to do as they wish, we are not going anywhere.

As stated so eloquently in our Declaration of Independence, we hold the power, not the government or our elected officials. It is time for a real change offered by the Fair Tax Act to encourage economical growth and investment. It is time to do away with the burdensome taxation system that we detest and political officials use to gain votes. Its up to people like you and me marg.

Originally posted by semperfoo

It is time to do away with the burdensome taxation system that we detest and political officials use to gain votes. Its up to people like you and me marg.

I understand and I agree with you, but our nation has been taken by certain interest groups, even you have noticed that, they are the power behind our government.

The only way that We the people can get changes is raising up and bring the masses to speak up.

But even that right that we have as the people has been forgotten because of new laws and regulations that controls our speech.

Is powers that likes our nation the way it is and the population submissive and compliant and these powers had invested a lot of money to keep our nation the way they want it.

The USA will only be beyond repair after the following:
Total nuclear war and the annihilation of the USA and the world
USA becomes just like George Orwells 1984

The USA CAN be repaired, but not at this rate, at this rate it will only get worse. I say tax the bejesus out of the rich since they do not pay taxes and alleviate pressure on the poor and middle class. GET MORE EXPORTS GOING! Back the US dollar with SOMETHING for peets sake, STEEL OR IRON! The world RUNS on steel and iron the same as oil!

The USA needs: Not parties, not war, but LEADERS, people who LEAD and do not become politicians and beurocrats.

Originally posted by Vekar
The USA will only be beyond repair after the following:
Total nuclear war and the annihilation of the USA and the world
USA becomes just like George Orwells 1984

The USA CAN be repaired, but not at this rate, at this rate it will only get worse. I say tax the bejesus out of the rich since they do not pay taxes and alleviate pressure on the poor and middle class. GET MORE EXPORTS GOING! Back the US dollar with SOMETHING for peets sake, STEEL OR IRON! The world RUNS on steel and iron the same as oil!

The USA needs: Not parties, not war, but LEADERS, people who LEAD and do not become politicians and beurocrats.

We are already taxing the bejesus out of rich companys with our crappy federal taxation system. What your proposing will only move more american buisnesses offshore.

Vekar look at the 'FairTax' discussion, its the best bet for america to get right back the prominance it once had.

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by semperfoo

It is time to do away with the burdensome taxation system that we detest and political officials use to gain votes. Its up to people like you and me marg.

I understand and I agree with you, but our nation has been taken by certain interest groups, even you have noticed that, they are the power behind our government.

The only way that We the people can get changes is raising up and bring the masses to speak up.

But even that right that we have as the people has been forgotten because of new laws and regulations that controls our speech.

Is powers that likes our nation the way it is and the population submissive and compliant and these powers had invested a lot of money to keep our nation the way they want it.

I do understand marg. And thats why im not going to sit here and do nothing about it. We've only lost all hope if we do sit here and do nothing. We havent lost all hope. Get aboard with the masses to take back our country. Because in polotics numbers matter. We can and will get the fairtax enabled.


Sign the fairtax petition. Give your name and location and they will put you on the petiton and they will inform your local representative.
www.fairtax.org...

I was refering to rich people not business, business passed the tax on to the consumer, which needs to be stopped. I was saying tax the bejesus out of the rich people who keep lobbying for all these tax cuts, put those taxes right back on them and quit giving them millions upon millions in tax breaks. They move jobs overseas because people do it for 500% less, why pay $20.00 and hour when you can get a Chinese kid to do it for $0.05 an hour? Frankly we should slap one heck of a tax on things comming from overseas so NO ONE buys it unless they REALLLLYYY want it. We need to make our own things so we have equal imput output.

Vekar,

I feel you dont know alot about the fairtax so let me explain.

Our current tax laws restrict trade. The income tax puts American companies at an unfair disadvantage when facing worldwide competition. As our goods are shipped around the world, they contain the compounded costs of our tax system. This makes our goods more expensive and less competitive compared to foreign goods. The FairTax allows U.S. exports to compete at lower prices than they do now. Lower prices on our goods will greatly increase the demand for U.S. exports. This will also increase jobs in U.S. manufacturing companies.

Imported items will be subject to the same FairTax rate as goods produced domestically in the U.S. Right now foreign goods are cheaper due to lower labor costs and they don’t have the built-in high hidden corporate taxes and compliance costs American goods are burdened with.

With the FairTax in place, American products will be better able to compete, both at home and abroad.

With no income tax, no corporate tax and no capital gains tax, the U.S. would become the world’s largest tax haven. The United States will be the only major country in the world with a zero tax rate on income, making it the most attractive place for foreign companies to locate facilities and create jobs. FairTax surveyed 500 major foreign companies and asked what they would do if the USA no longer had an income tax. 400 of those companies said they would build their next factory in the U.S. 100 of these foreign companies said they would move their headquarters to the U.S.

American manufacturing firms who have moved their factories overseas will come back to the U.S. with the removal of corporate income tax, payroll tax and compliance costs. The U.S. has a stable economy, a stable political environment and educated workers making it a much better place to do business than countries with corrupt governments and terrible infrastructure. Under the FairTax, U.S. manufacturing firms will have increased capital to re-invest in itself. With lower interest rates and more capital investment, manufacturing will boom creating more jobs for the American workforce.

With American companies expanding and foreign companies moving here, employment will increase there will be a much higher demand for employees. More demand leads to higher wages. Not only will we have higher wages (because of higher productivity), companies will be competing for employees, driving up wages.

The most important cause of higher wages is a higher level of "capital investment per worker" (money available for investment in the company). This means the more money a company invests in better machinery and equipment the higher the productivity of each worker. The worker is more productive if he has more modern machinery and equipment leading to higher wages.
Home ownership is connected to interest rates. Since the number of people at low income-earners constitute the largest group, that group will benefit the most from lower interest rates. Lower rates means more home ownership. At a given rate (like 5%) only a certain percentage of the population can qualify for a home loan. If the rate drops (to 4%) the amount of people qualifying is vastly increased.

Meaning more americans will be able to buy homes.

Most new home owners will be buying lawn mowers, dishwashers, new carpets, updating the plumbing and windows, etc. This will cause another boom in retail sales. (Boom after boom is what the FairTax will bring us!)

America is one of the only countries in the world whose citizens can not take advantage of investing in very low tax countries called tax havens. Tax havens are countries like Switzerland, Monaco and the Cayman Islands that offer very favorable income tax laws. Americans cannot legally take advantage of tax havens because the U.S. income tax code taxes American income worldwide. Because the FairTax taxes consumption and not your earnings, it would make the U.S. the world's largest and most organized tax haven.

In other words, all profits on investments and savings would be tax free in the U.S. just as it is in other tax havens.

Americans and American companies have $11 trillion dollars stashed in overseas accounts that they do not bring into the U.S. because of the high income taxes they would have to pay. This is money that is not currently at work in our economy. Because the FairTax will make the U.S. the world's largest tax haven, all of this money can be brought back to the U.S

This is a few things that the fairtax will bring us Americans.

[edit on 043131p://4701pm by semperfoo]

I was refering to corporate GREED when I was talking about taxes, they like overseas (AS I SAID so re-read) they pay people 500% less 0.05 vs 20+ US dollars. I am saying we need more OUTPUT than INPUT right now, so tax the bejesus out of IMPORTS as I said. Re-read.

US is no longer a nation of producers, we are consumers, foreign companies own American, even our roads has been sold to foreign companies roads built with tax payer money.

Its very hard for America to take back what has sold to foreign investors and sell it to Americans.

American companies rather get cheap slave labor in third countries than investing in America.

But they have no problem bringing their goods and sell them to us at regular prices even if the labor was pennies on the dollar.

I'm a UK citizen so I'm looking in from the outside, but I see the UK following the corparate side of the US with about a 15 year delay. I think both countries are operating under a similar neo-straussian mentality at the moment.

I was so depressed when all my greatest fears about your one-party-with-two-colours system displayed itself recently by continuing with all Bush policies after 6 years of complaining. Though its obvious politics is a deflector shield for business I at least hoped there would be a few moralists. Oh well.

Though your debt is astronomical, I'm not yet convinced that evil warmongering international bankers want your country to crash and burn and all your chidren to fight the chinese etc. etc.

However I think there are a couple of major things I can think of that can be changed, how is a different question.

1) The celebrity worship culture - We are training our kids to think that being famous for absolutely anything is one of the greatest achievements in life. Look how many people are willing to go on big brother or 'marry a millionaire/midget/siamese twin' etc. We need to start teaching our kids about people from history whose lives are an example we can truly follow. Brave, noble, honest, aspirational people. J-Lo is none of those.

2) Military Police - I'm seeing a scary amount of things like the UCLA student tazering and kids in schools with military machine guns pointed at their heads in 'drills' etc. Some big lobbying needs to be done unless thats the America you want to live in. Its the same over here with the guy getting killed in the tube station - thats not part of the UK I grew up in. Police used to have the choice of carrying a tuncheon (baton) cos it bashes annoyingly against legs when walking. Now they've got a batman belt full of stuff. Tazers soon I guess. MP5's everywhere in london since 7/7.

3) Social isolation. Being alone in a city full of people. Sitting in a room full of people saying nothing because some moronic reality show is keeping them quiet and glued to the screen long enough to watch the adverts. The best thing for mental health is what is known as a 'support network'. Simple. Friends, family, your church, people who genuinely care about you as your own individual. We need to destress and show each other some love. It sounds hippyish but its true.

One thing I think may be a big help is the huge amount of christians in the country. If some of the traditional teachings of jesus (living a simple life, charity, peace, ascetism etc.) were valued higher than the 'American Dream' of wealth, fame and a Hummer there could be a big change.

I certainly see the wisdom of the point that economic reform is a critical part of maintaining the greatness of the United States, but I think we also need to be aware of other shortfalls which we must address.

We could have a booming economy, the most fair and efficient tax system in the world, two space ships in every garage and a golden goose in every pot, but how great can that make a nation?

Allow me to quote one of the few people whom I unreservedly credit with wisdom far surpassing my own:

...Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.
(snip)
Your destiny is a mystery to us. What will happen when the buffalo are all slaughtered? The wild horses tamed? What will happen when the secret corners of the forest are heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills is blotted with talking wires? Where will the thicket be? Gone! Where will the eagle be? Gone! And what is to say goodbye to the swift pony and then hunt? The end of living and the beginning of survival.
(snip)
Will there be any of the spirit of my people left?
(snip)
No man, be he Red man or White man, can be apart. We ARE all brothers after all." -Chief Seattle

We have, as George Carlin said, taken this beautiful continent and turned it into a great big coast to coast shopping mall where we essentially do two things, and two things only- eat and consume. This is not a way of life that will keep our nation great.

America needs to take a day off work and ask itself some basic existential questions about why we want to be free, or why we even want not to starve to death.

Are we empowering our children to do things that machines cannot do, or are we setting them up for the lives of drones? Will they be free to pursue their passions, and build a culture by exercising that freedom? Will there always be an abundance of great American art, in any form, whether its a play or a movie? Will there be a social life, or only colleages from work? Will we bother to learn anything that isn't about survival- will we have a spirituality, be it humanist philosophy or old time christianity or something entirely new?


America is not beyond repair. What could anybody possibly do to us that we haven't already survived at least once? We've watched our capital burn to the ground. We've been to war with ourselves in the name of freedom. We've lost everything to economic depression. We've had our teeth kicked in by enemies who for some time seemed invincible. We've had nukes right on our doorstep. We've had our greatest hope snuffed out by an assassin's rifle on live television. We've been betrayed by our leaders and taken into decades long wars for no good reason. Off the top of my head, I can't name too many decades where nothing really really horrible happened to America- those of us who grew up in the 90s are actually a bit spoiled in this respect and may lack appreciation for just how resilient this country has proven to be over the years.

I don't think the question is whether we'll survive. I think the question is whether we'll take any joy in that fact. The answer to that question hinges on what we do about issues like education, crime control, the environment and workers rights. While we're building an America where everyone has a job, a home, healthcare, etc, we had also better build one where children are exposed to possibilities and encouraged to pursue them, where people aren't afraid of other people, where you can play a game of catch with our kid without wearing a gas mask, and where your 40+ years in the work force don't destroy your body to the point where your retirement consists only of waiting to die.

Just remember:
Should anyone and I mean ANYONE try and push these things through, you will have dems and repubs stonewalling you since they get funding from the people we need to remove. Corporations WANT it like this, it gives them FAR more control over society, the white house is just a side note to them if they make ammo and need a "quick fix." Like I said, REMEMBER that these people (political parties) and the corporations (and elite who run them) will be out for your head if you even try. It would take a divine act to get these things (proper taxing systems and get america to be a PRODUCER once again) considering what we are up against. This is all from the legal standpoint though, there is an alternative though not so pleasant but the USA has been moving towards it ever since the government abandoned americans. See the titor thread for that one.

Nothing is beyond repair when the will to achieve is present. People are wanting chainge. You feel it every day you walk down the street. You can see it in the look on people's faces. Just take a look around you. Take the time to notice what people are talking about.

The change is in the wind. But chainge can bring about great things in the world.
No the US is not beyond repair. It will take a lot of work but the soul that is America is far from gone.