Is The Pledge of Allegiance Valid Today?

This interesting article breaks down The Pledge of Allegiance and studies what it actually says, implies and means. It's the first time I've run across someone who encourages people to refuse to say the pledge, which I have been doing for years.

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Since birth, we Americans are told to be patriots. We salute our flag, support out government, and look down on our enemies. But the blind patriotism promoted by the Pledge of Allegiance does nothing except deceive the American people.

It is valid to me...

As much now as when I stood in the little 4 room school in backwoods West Virginia and learned the words that would shape my future. NO even more now after all these years of service...

It seems that there is a current of discontent flowing that somehow casts dispersions on serving... I have served, I am serving and I have been proud my entire life. Proud and successful.

Even the Lord Jesus Christ said time and time again that He was sent here to serve. How is it I could ever consider myself better than He?

Taking the Pledge to heart, loving every word, has brought to me wonders beyond belief. I have traveled, lived and fought more in one lifetime than I ever thought possible. All because that Pledge touched something in me so many years ago....

For me, it rings true..

Semper

the pledge is in my opinion invalidated by it's hypocrisy
just 2 words invalidate the whole thing
"under god"
i'd gladly say the pledge if they removed those to words from the pledge

i have a 1st amendment right of freedom from religion

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the pledge is in my opinion invalidated by it's hypocrisy
just 2 words invalidate the whole thing
"under god"
i'd gladly say the pledge if they removed those to words from the pledge

i have a 1st amendment right of freedom from religion

Interesting, I agree with you if you are an athiest. Otherwise wouldent Under God mean to you, YOUR god? not the christian idea of god but the personal diety that you believe in?

If however you are an athiest then by all means I would still say the pledge of aliegence but omit the under god bit and replace it with something that you believe in that this nation stands for.

How about one nation for freedom? Or one nation under the dollar? or One nation under the thumb of an opressive beuracracy, that strangles the life out of its citizens on a dialy basis. no wait scratch that last one, its not very patriotic.

The point is that Unless your personal belief does not include a god form then you should say that little bit but remember it's for you. Otherwise replace the words with something apropreate to you.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the pledge is in my opinion invalidated by it's hypocrisy
just 2 words invalidate the whole thing
"under god"
i'd gladly say the pledge if they removed those to words from the pledge

i have a 1st amendment right of freedom from religion

Unbelieveable....:shk:

How does "Under God" invalidate the pledge of Allegiance?

To me the pledge of the legion was a way to enforce patriotism, but taking into consideration how governments come and go with different agendas it many not hold the same meaning to everybody anymore.

I didn't grow up with the pledge of the legion so I do not feel particularly that I have feelings for it and its words.

the pledge is in my opinion invalidated by it's hypocrisy
just 2 words invalidate the whole thing
"under god"
i'd gladly say the pledge if they removed those to words from the pledge

Remember that the pledge was invented before the abomination that many call political correctness. Aww yes the good old days when life was simple and everyone wasn't offended over everything. You have the choice to say those words and if you don't want to fine but don't try and take those words out. Also remember that this country was founded on religion.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

i have a 1st amendment right of freedom from religion

Actually you have a 1st Amendment Freedom OF Religion. NOT from religion... One small word but speaks volumes..

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

As you will also notice, there is a specific mention of NOT prohibiting the exercise of those that do practice religion.. I believe this applies to those that believe in God.

Semper

Nice one semperfortis. America was founded on religion and it is all around us if you do not like it then that is unfortunate.

The plede of allegiance is very valid. And ... as one of the vast majority of Americans who believe in God ... I have absolutely no problem saying 'under God'.

If Americans don't want to pledge allegiance (in some form) to their country, then i suggest they take a boat ride to Cuba or somewhere else. People without allegiance to this country are NOT Americans and they will not be missed. They may live here, but if they are not tied emotionally to this country and so they aren't Americans.

That's all there is to it. Leave. Bu-bye.

I disagree with you flyers, I didn't grow up with it, I found out what it was when my children were of school age and to tell you the truth it means nothing more to me than a recited poem.

Now, it was not like that with the national anthem, I grew up with my national anthem along with the US mainland, but never heard of the pledge until I was in the US mainland and my children in school.

I categorize all this pledges, anthems and such as nothing more than symbolism and rituals.

Originally posted by marg6043
I categorize all this pledges, anthems and such as nothing more than symbolism and rituals.

Are they meant to be more?

Actualy the pledge of allegence is suposed to be that an oath to loyalty to this country. If your an american and believe in what America (debateable) stands for then by all means accept this pledge.

course like in a favorite game of mine

"Its not only the right thing to do, its the MANDITORY thing to do."

But I digress. The pledge at least used to be required to say each and every day in my school. Every morning as the bell rang we would rise up and place one hand over our heart and pledge our aliegence to this country.

(probably a throwback to the height of the cold war.)

"Any child that doesnt say the pledge of allegence must be a commie" Unknown McCarthy era person.

[edit on 3-1-2007 by whatukno]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Unbelieveable....:shk:

How does "Under God" invalidate the pledge of Allegiance?

seperation of church and state
it's one of the principals of this country
religion is on one side
the state is on the other
the assertion that god exists (let alone over a country) is a purely religious one

by removing one of the things that makes a nation great from the pledge (said seperation, for example) it invalidates the very principals of this country

and FF, my allegiance is with this country
and what it stands for
but as long as the pledge is hypocricy, i won't say it

i pledge my allegiance to the PEOPLE of the united states of america

[edit on 1/3/07 by madnessinmysoul]

The linked article is absurd. It puts fourth untrue statements as fact, and is not a fair minded article. It's contents are not reflective of the facts. A few examples...

"one Nation under God." These words are hardly applicable to the United States. The United States is a nation of many people following many religions and religious beliefs. And besides, we are not a Christian/Abrahamic nation and we are not founded on Christian/Abrahamic principles, so why say so?

American was founded on Christain belief and values. To say otherwise is folly.

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776.
THE UNANIMOUS
DECLARATION
OF THE
THIRTEEN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

WHEN, in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's GOD entitle them

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their CREATOR

And for the Support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of DIVINE PROVIDENCE

Link to The Declaration of Independance...

Also, we do have a national Church...

On January 6, 1893, Congress granted a charter to the Protestant Episcopal Cathedral Foundation of the District of Columbia, allowing it to establish a cathedral and institutions of higher learning. Signed by President Benjamin Harrison, this charter was the birth certificate of Washington National Cathedral.

After his consecration in 1896, the Rev. Dr. Henry Yates Satterlee, the first bishop of Washington, managed to secure land on Mount Saint Alban — the most commanding spot in the entire Washington area.

On September 29, 1907, the foundation stone was laid.

Link.

American was discovered and founded by Christains, and they're values.

-- Boat

[edit on 3-1-2007 by Boatphone]

Here is a picture detail of the National Cathedral:




-- Boat

So far people in this thread has brought many good issues of what is and should be.

But nobody has even brought into question as why we got the first Amendment and the problems that the new nation was having under so call religious believes.

As usual many in order to win arguments completely forget that our nation was having a lot of religious troubles that prompted to have in the constitution a entry to that issue.

It was not that people were not allow to Worship God, but it was the problems of having state-church unions dictating what kind of religion was allow and what was not.

When it came to denominations and supported by the local individual governemnts.

boatphone, your claim of my folly is followed by evidence of folly
the united states wasn't founded on the declaration of independence
the united states was founded on the articles of confederation
however, that was too loose and failed
then we had the constitution
then we had the bill of rights
you're bringing out a crusty old declaration that we're no longer part of britain as evidence that america was founded by christians

in fact, most of those insertions of god were made by DEISTS

hell, ol ben franklin denied the divinity of christ to his death

The Constitution of the United States does not grant rights, as some seem to believe. The Constitution guarantees certain rights as being granted by our Creator. The writings of the Founding Fathers are very clear about this, whether they were Christian or Deist.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed....

[emphasis mine]

www.ushistory.org...

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
--George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."

"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."

"Is it necessary that any one should [ask], “Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country." [Quote by Nelly Custis-Lewis, Washington's adopted daughter]

www.eadshome.com...

“The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity…I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and the attributes of God.”
[June 28, 1813; Letter to Thomas Jefferson]

“We recognize no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!”
[April 18, 1775, on the eve of the Revolutionary War after a British major ordered John Adams, John Hancock, and those with them to disperse in “the name of George the Sovereign King of England." ]

“[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
[letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress]

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

www.eadshome.com...

“The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." [Letter to Benjamin Rush April 21, 1803]

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” [Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781]

www.eadshome.com...

John Quincy Adams:
“Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts

www.eadshome.com...

Benjamin Franklin:
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787

www.eadshome.com...

John Hancock: | Portrait of John Hancock
“In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

www.eadshome.com...

Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
"This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”

www.eadshome.com...

Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”

www.eadshome.com...

I don't know why anyone today should be ashamed to, or constrained not to invoke the name of God in the public sphere. The men who founded this nation certainly were not ashamed or so constrained.


[edit on 2007/1/3 by GradyPhilpott]

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."

Well founding father or not that statement is just plain wrong. After seeing the movie Apocalypto though.... perhaps there is some truth to it. We know the white man came to this region of the world and kicked some butt and took it for his own. But the movie depicts some of the native acts to be about as immoral and violent as one could ever imagine. Perhaps Europeans did good to come here, take over and essentially raise the moral standards? I don't know.

What I do know is that Washington existed over 200 years ago. A lot as changed since then. What do you think Washington would be like if you could magically resurrect him today? Being that he was the 1st president of the USA, you decided to take a vacation with him to show him what has developed since his death in 1799.

So you and George board an American Airlines flight to start the tour of the country when you notice him shaking in his seating in fear as the aircraft flies down the runway and takes flight. Soon George disappears into the bathroom and remains there the entire flight because of fear and air sickness.

How would this make YOU feel? You were taught that Washington is the symbol of our country. He was a general and a president, a symbol of might. Yet here you see him scared and confused like a child! The reason is simple is it not? George Washington is out of place. His time was 1732-1799 not 2006.

The point here is to get people to understand that just because [insert famous name] said so doesn't make it so. Things change and our understanding of reality has completely changed since Washington's time. This is not meant to take away from all of George's accomplishments or diminish his historical stature. It's just a simple fact of reality.

In closing I will say that the Pledge of Allegiance is basically the brainwashing of young minds in order to promote nationalism. I mean of course it's that! But it's also necessary. As long as nation-states exist and we fight to preserve land, money, religion, culture, etc we need a way to unite our people. Reciting an oath is one way of doing that.