Is It Just Me or Has Something Changed ATS

If there's anything I've noticed about ATS.com, it has fallen victim to not necessarily commercialism, but to the demograph of people of people that use the internet. It's a victim of its own success. Because it's so expanded, you draw people who aren't as intelligently critical or conversational.

That's what I've noticed, it sort of draws away from ATS.com's razzle and dazzle it had before, as a place for people to discuss conspiracy topics more within the conspiracy community.


Oh well.

You don't mean overloads this time? Hmm wierd. WELLL like everyone said if you dont like it you can leave.

I believe there is nothing wrong with being crazy about something - providing it can be backed up with facts and sources

My experience of ATS over the years is that it has grown stronger each year and is now better than ever before - a true credit to all involved!

Originally posted by Masisoar
If there's anything I've noticed about ATS.com, it has fallen victim to not necessarily commercialism, but to the demograph of people of people that use the internet. It's a victim of its own success. Because it's so expanded, you draw people who aren't as intelligently critical or conversational.

Aye, well I agree with this. I used to read & post on ATS because the members seemed intellectual and informed.

Nowadays, whenever I come here the biggest thread is usually some sensationalist or ridiculous claim, i.e. :

'OMG, I seen something in the corner of my eye! Was it a reptile?'

It's not a sell-out at all, it's the internet.

It could be said that ATS is a true example of a self perpetuating cycle
Quality content attracts quality posters ad infinitum. The mods here appear to do a good job at reeling in the extreme sensationalist posts while at the same time respecting what such a poster has to say - I'm sure this can be a difficult task sometimes due to the subject matter up for discussion


[edit on 30-12-2006 by freeradical]

Originally posted by Donski
Aye, well I agree with this. I used to read & post on ATS because the members seemed intellectual and informed.

You're encountering a phenomenon we've discussed before, "familiarity fatigue" (my new name for it).

When you first found ATS... you were stunned and amazed with the variety of content. Somewhere between a bit and a lot of the content covered topics and ideas you never considered before... it was an amazing thing for you, and all of us.

Then, over time, you become familiar with all the topics, and grow tired or impatient when you see things repeated. To you, it "feels" like things are fading, but in reality, you're experiencing "familiarity fatigue" with ATS.

Some members never get past it and move on and out... that's too bad.

Some members never get past it and feel a need to express their dissatisfaction in threads like this. While that's not so great, it's better than moving on.

Some members get past it and do some research to begin new compelling topics... and this is where the magic happens. Sure it's no where near as often as we'd like to see... but it's worth it.


And yes, we have been and are reaching for a broader audience. Some conspiracy theory aficionados have trouble with this, as it adds an unsophisticated element into the mix.... and that's also too bad.

But the goal is to try and get the important topics our members discuss out to as many people as possible. Many of our members would like to see this happen, broader awareness of our topics, and that might just happen. Consider ATS a "Transitional Board"... if people get hooked on researching and discussing conspiracies here, then move on to more -- er -- "hard core" boards... that's fine too. The goal is awareness.

Well... if you can point to any specific action we've taken, or change we've implemented, or technology we've created, or any other attribute of ATS that isn't directly designed to promote or otherwise enhance the contributions of our members... then maybe you have something there.

It's almost clockwork that posts like these come up. Everytime ATS gets a "new face" someone calls The Amigos out. I've been through so many ATS "upgrades" now I've lost track. But everytime some chump comes crying that AboveTopSecret has CHANGED!!1! I'm starting to bet that "The Overlords" prepare an official reply before they even unveil an upgrade!

This site is starting IMO to become some kind of whacko extremeist, disinfo,fruitcake,nutjob site. Too many cooks spoil the soup so to speak.

Well, it did change. There's just so much content that you're completely missing the point of ATS and everything it stands for. ATS houses a HUGE database of discussions and ideas. You have to know what to look for, you have to come here with an Idea and go from there. The search feature is CRUCIAL for getting the discussion you desire.

But I wont totally chastise you here, and I'll even side with you partly on the "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob" view; while not so dramatically.

One thing that has bothered me about ATS for years is the allowance of "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob" threads. You know, threads you look at and just 'know' before even reading any of the replies, that it's a big pile ol' crap? Yeah, theres been a huge surge of "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob" threads lately. I don't think anyone argues that.. especially the people that have been around for a long time. But ya know what, we can't change that. No one can. Short of nazism moderating of the forums, there will never been an end to "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob" threads.

There are so many layers of ATS then just the "recent" posts section. There are Archives into some of the most researched, debated, and intelligent conversations buried under the "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob" threads. Pull up search, find a thread you like, and bump it back into the "limelight" with a intelligent conversation.

ATS is social network. It's beyond control now. Regardless of what the developers do with this site, it will evolve faster then they can control it. It's completely up to the members what kind of discussion is thrust onto the board... not the developers.

Do they "sell out" on this matter? Probably.. bet you wished you could sell out on ATS huh.. I personally wish I could "sell out" on YouTube and MySpace, myself, but I would have settled for ATS.. oh well, shrug*

The real point here is ATS is what you make of it man.. Don't judge the book by the cover. Don't judge the forum on the recent posts. See what's been discussed, bring old discussions back and you'll notice a nice swing in the "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob" pendelum.


BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

I never miss a chance to flick ATS in the nose in these kinds of threads.. soo here's my bi-yearly rant! *smiles at the Overlord*

Your "new recruits" (if thats what they are) need some work..

I've been really upset about the content some of our more popular "guest speakers" have brought forward. These so called professional conspiracy theorists like oh, maybe John Lear, have been having a field day with the "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob" people. Even to go so far with their sometimes apparent disrespect for anyone that questions their content. We have what appears at times to be professional "bullies" telling us what is real, and what is not, based entirely on their "history". And people just "roll with it".

I just think people with debatable "histories" such as John Lear and the like, need to take special caution when posting and replying. If you want to be a roll model, a "professional", then act like one. And stop being so forward, aggressive, and downright rude when your facts are questioned. And honestly, if your facts can't be backed up, then why are you telling stories?

But alas, we can't ALL have it our way. Obviously the "Overlords" find some kind of use in keeping these people around, or maybe they really don't have a choice since these people aren't doing anything wrong.. The very fact that the Dev's seldom interfere in discussion is something that has always kept me hooked to ATS.. its free to build itself.


I read, daily, sometimes often times a day, but I only reply when something interests me. Or, in this matter, tickles my fancy of being a local pest ;p Long are the days when I'd sit down, like I am now, and write a huge post about pretty much nothing relevant. I still throw out some research threads, but aside from that, I just read, laugh, and have a good time.

Now, come back, think of something really interesting to talk about, whip up the search feature, and add to an already started conversation.

Or, if your idea is REALLY good, start a new thread and brave the onslaught

But christ man, get off the dev's balls for creating a huge empire.. it's theirs to keep, let them reap the rewards while we have a social community to control for ourselves.

Again, if you're looking for specific CONTENT, as you claim lacks on ATS, then it's quite obvious you arent using the Search Features of ATS. If you're looking for general Chit Chat on current events, or proposed "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob" conspiracies, then you look at the Recent Posts. Those are your extremes. Or, you could pull yourself out of the "Recent Posts" slog long enough to read a more "determined" sub-forum of your liking.

Theres so many levels of ATS.. to be wrapping the entirely of ATS based on the current "Recent Posts" atmosphere is very short sighted.

And well, typical of someone that hasnt been around very long.

Registered: 12/19/2006

I'm willing to guess you're not that long of a "lurker".. or you would surely have found something worthy of responding to by now.

ATS Social Networking...
Not just for "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob" anymore!

Originally posted by QuietSoul
BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

I never miss a chance to flick ATS in the nose in these kinds of threads.. soo here's my bi-yearly rant! *smiles at the Overlord*

Your "new recruits" (if thats what they are) need some work..

I've been really upset about the content some of our more popular "guest speakers" have brought forward. These so called professional conspiracy theorists like oh, maybe John Lear, have been having a field day with the "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob" people. Even to go so far with their sometimes apparent disrespect for anyone that questions their content. We have what appears at times to be professional "bullies" telling us what is real, and what is not, based entirely on their "history". And people just "roll with it".

I am glad to see you mention this QuietSoul.

With respect to these "guest speakers", my sense is they are brought on board for the specific purpose of building membership - even if that membership consists primarily of the "whacko, extremeist, disinfo, fruitcake, nutjob people".

A member is a member is a member....... and that is what drives ad revenue - membership.

As to people just "rolling with it", there have been those who have challenged Lear and they have paid a dear price for doing so. It seems even if you have verifiable sources with better moon pics, if you don't have the "name" to go with it, you'll be hard pressed to get the attention of the devs - unless it is to delete every post you've made albeit through an "ah... administrative error."



Always,
Shawnna

I'm glad this thread hasn't been closed yet. Whenever I get to a similar one and try to comment, it's gone before I have a chance.

I'd just like to say that I see a similarity any time someone makes one of these boards. Someone expresses that they are frustrated and has a problem with what the site is becoming, and people belittle them posting stuff like "drama queen", "if you don't like it, get lost" etc. Instead of doing that, maybe we should be asking what they don't like and how they would like to see it changed. If there are so many dissatisfied people, why not listen to what they have to say and see if just maybe their points are actually valid and would improve the site.

I know first-hand that many of ATS's best and most prominent posters have recently left and are starting to leave in droves, because something definately has changed. It's not just the newbies. There isn't one main reason why everyone is leaving, but I think it revolves around abuse of power and a change in "site attitude" for the most part. Now I haven't talked to all of them, but the older, regular members that I have talked to all seem to share the same sense of frustration. I myself felt the same way a while ago, and had to leave the site for a few weeks to 'regain my composure'. Now I try to avoid any site-related or member-related topics, because in the end they will just get you all riled up. I'm not going to name names and sink to that level, I'm just saying in general. That's my advice for anyone who is feeling the same way... just stick to the conspiracies and actual topics, and don't get too into the board drama.

All I know is that I come here a lot less often than I used to, and it definately is because something has changed. It's not just because it's the same old topics either, I've been encountering that since a few weeks in, and I'm content to post about the same things over and over. The conspiracies will always be the same. It's the people who change.

[edit on 1-1-2007 by Yarcofin]

I have been posting on ATS for a little while now. I don't have many problems at all with how things are handled here.

I have had threads I have started closed the reasons that the moderator gave me for closing the thread were indeed genuine and acceptable.

I have had posts of mine moved and the moderator gave me good reasons that they did so.

I do think that people post some realy silly things here on ATS but thats not the boards problem its up to the individual reader to decide whether or not the claim made by the Original Poster warrents merrit.

The mistery I am still trying to solve is how I stumbles across ATS in the first place. I woke up one morning and my computer was on the main page for ATS I know I didnt search out for a discussion thread or a conspiracy thread or for UFOs or paranormal things. I woke up and my computer was just here. I read a few posts and I was intregued so I signed up that day and I have not regreted that decision once.

ATS is a great place to freely discuss ideas.

Although I am still a little confused on thread ettiquite. Like posting to old outdated threds is bad and starting new threads when an old one exists is bad. But thats something I have to work out myself and it isnt the moderators fault for that. its just netiquate.

all that really bugs me are the thousands of people who register an account, make three profoundly retarded posts, and go about their merry business elsewhere on the internet.

having to wade through twenty pages of dissociative rants and lengthy spiels about our reptilian overlords makes the occasional worthwhile topic that much less enjoyable.

oh, and there's another thing-- mental illness is becoming just as valid a reason to post on ATS as having a legit conspiracy or paranormal phenomenon to discuss. three-quarters of the Paranormal and Alien and UFOs forums read like they came out of the DSM-IV. there is a rich variety of topics whose inspiration is clearly schizophrenia, and whose authors cannot be told that their experiences amount to anything other than psychic revelation.

i don't think the good in ATS has been dwindling, or that it has lost anything that it once had. however, there are many more negative aspects to contend with than once there were.

the only suggestion i have is a one-week delay on the ability to post after registering a new account. this would give casual maligners of the ATS crowd and many other undesirables time to forget they made an account.

and yes, we as a board do have to acknowledge that there are those whose input we do not desire. the image of ATS and the conspiracy theory field as a whole is negatively reflected upon by the hordes of crackpots and bona fide crazy people we harbor within our electronic walls. the contributions of intelligent members with meaningful thoughts to share are being badly watered down by the preponderance of chaff, and it will take active participation on the part of the board's leadership to turn this process around before ATS goes the way of every other conspiracy website.

we've already made it onto somethingawful's weekend web project once. let's not let it happen again.

I just want to makee a quick responce to this without reading the rest of the thread. ATS is a fair and open forum for the discussion of ideas that are not often openly discussed. Anytime you have a large discussion going among numerous people, you will get some weird and outlandish replies, this in addition to the subject matter here at ATS makes for some frustratingly off-the-wall topics and replies.

I think the "symptoms" indicate positive change, actually. The fact that more "cooks" are posting simply means that ATS is becoming more popular and reaching more people. This is not a bad thing, as long as you can navigate yourself through the bull-****.

I am however, suspicious of some of the people on this site, mods included. I don't believe that this reflects on the site itself, just that there is some disinfo and directing going on here. I was also concerned about some posts that are moved, or locked, but USUALLY there is an explanation that makes sense.

ATS is a great source of knowledge and expertise on subjects that are difficult to get answers to. It is not an exclusive, "nothing but the facts maam" type of place because some things are arranged so that they can't be proven. Take what you can from ATS and discard the rest. Enjoy.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
I'd just like to say that I see a similarity any time someone makes one of these boards. Someone expresses that they are frustrated and has a problem with what the site is becoming, and people belittle them posting stuff like "drama queen", "if you don't like it, get lost" etc. Instead of doing that, maybe we should be asking what they don't like and how they would like to see it changed. If there are so many dissatisfied people, why not listen to what they have to say and see if just maybe their points are actually valid and would improve the site.

I know first-hand that many of ATS's best and most prominent posters have recently left and are starting to leave in droves, because something definately has changed. It's not just the newbies. There isn't one main reason why everyone is leaving, but I think it revolves around abuse of power and a change in "site attitude" for the most part. Now I haven't talked to all of them, but the older, regular members that I have talked to all seem to share the same sense of frustration. I myself felt the same way a while ago, and had to leave the site for a few weeks to 'regain my composure'. Now I try to avoid any site-related or member-related topics, because in the end they will just get you all riled up. I'm not going to name names and sink to that level, I'm just saying in general. That's my advice for anyone who is feeling the same way... just stick to the conspiracies and actual topics, and don't get too into the board drama.

yarcofin, this is exactly what i was talking about earlier. unfortunately i don't see this changing because it seems the 'your just a drama queen' posters are more favoured than those who may have a point because they are allowed to get away with those types of posts. all you will end up with in the end is a site full of posters with nothing to say but bitchy and childish posts that add nothing and bring the site down. but if thats the type of members they want then thats what they will get.

Originally posted by Nicotine1982
The fact that more "cooks" are posting simply means that ATS is becoming more popular and reaching more people. This is not a bad thing, as long as you can navigate yourself through the bull-****.

actually this isn't true. if you look at alexa.com, ats has been having declining numbers for quite some time now and is probably one of the reasons the big redesign occurred. however, if the problem that yarcofin mentioned above isn't addressed then it doesn't matter how good a site may look if it's long-time supporters are leaving in droves.

it also gives some other websites containing ex-ats members something to gloat about.

they can continue to ignore the problem at their own peril but it won't go away, unlike some members.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Instead of doing that, maybe we should be asking what they don't like and how they would like to see it changed.

One answer... you can't please everyone all the time.

If we were to be concerned about the frustrations of 1%-2% of our posting members and consider changes because of a very small minority, we'd loose sight of the vision we have for ATS. We (amigos) are more concerned with be true to our long-term and short-term vision, than we are with why a small number of people no longer post... since that always happens with any board.

Originally posted by justyc
if you look at alexa.com, ats has been having declining numbers for quite some time now and is probably one of the reasons the big redesign occurred.

Alexa has never been an accurate measure of our traffic. While their numbers show a soft decline in reach and visits, our ranking has also improved in the same period. We're now below 20,000 in Alexa which is a very powerful place to be. So we have a very strange dual story just from one source.

The likely explanation for this is that a majority of sites "above" us are also experiencing an Alexa-observed decline of sorts... and this seems to be the case if you look at 1-year numbers:
rense.com
theonion.com
slate.com
In fact, it's very hard to find any popular site that isn't declining at the same rate Alexa reports for ATS. This just highlights the imperfect nature of Alexa's ranking system which pulls visit data from people who use their toolbar... and the people who visit ATS are unlikely to install such a thing.

Our Google Analytics, which is much more widely accepted by advertisers than Alexa's traffic numbers (but advertisers still compare Alexa rank), shows a different story. We've had a steady increase up until October of 2006, where we now have somewhat of a plateau. The real reason for the redesign is what we discovered in the Google Analytics path analysis... we had a great deal of abandonment at the site home page... after the redesign there was a significant improvement as well as an increase in average page-views, time spent, etc.

Originally posted by Nicotine1982
I just want to makee a quick responce to this without reading the rest of the thread. ATS is a fair and open forum for the discussion of ideas that are not often openly discussed. Anytime you have a large discussion going among numerous people, you will get some weird and outlandish replies, this in addition to the subject matter here at ATS makes for some frustratingly off-the-wall topics and replies.

ATS is a great source of knowledge and expertise on subjects that are difficult to get answers to. It is not an exclusive, "nothing but the facts maam" type of place because some things are arranged so that they can't be proven. Take what you can from ATS and discard the rest. Enjoy.

Hi,

I have to agree with Nic on this one, and I just want to add a little to it.

You know, This is a Huge Board, and Huge Boards have huge server demands, huge bandwidth requirements, and huge databases, and all that boils down to huge bucks. What I am saying is the the Amigos have a right to make some bucks. The amazing thing is that ATS is still a free site. SO just finished going on about that, and giving reasons why the change to Dark Matter was actually done.

Last look, we had about 70 odd thousand members up here, and just a few Mods by comparison. They do a heck of a job. Yet, a large amount of this thread seems devoted to "troll control", and related, nanobrained types. Well, I am wondering just who's responsibility some of us think that is; SO's, Asala's, WOS, Zed?? Actually, it is none of the above, and it is actually OURS--us--the rank and file members. It all boils down to two very simple dictum's.

One is that this is OUR Board--it belongs, ultimately, to the members who post to it, whether it is Simon that "owns" it. ATS is no better and no worse than US. Ultimately, we need to understand that such boards as this one should be quite self-policing regards Trolls and Basket Cases. I have found out through experience that if people will ignore these spurious and furious threads, they tend to die of natural causes, as do the starters thereof.

The second is really simple --the "ignore" feature---use it.

SO, while I have your attention, I'd like to see 2 new Forums started -- a "What If" Forum for nut-cases to vent their Fantasy Theories on, and a Wisdom Keepers Forum for those of us over the age of 50.

Some of you moaning about the quality of ATS, while i sit at home without access to the Internet and long and yearn to be here with my friends, people who share my conspiracies and world views...

*Sigh*

I miss the great ATS.

ya and while were at it (making a forum for those that are "fantasy nuts"

we SHOULD make one for OLD TIMERS who are too old or tired to go through the process of changing there beleifs because somehow they abstracted the thought that because they are older and have had more experince that they are smarter by default of there age, there is NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS on ignorance.

but alas the more "NEW THIS SITE" looks the more the moderators will want to APPEASE THERE SPONSORS and keep traffic HIGH, so if old timers complaign they will be listened to in fear of losing them. i think what they may be looking for here is quantity not so much is quality.

u can spin it any way u want to when things go from smaller to bigger the money justify's what are seen as inconsequential changes, and hey if i was spending 6 to 8 hours a day doing something like moderating u damn well beleive i would be trying to get paid for it, (unless i was retired then it could be a selfless hobby)

mods i apologize as i am usually more of a mellowed poster but it seems like this is turning more to a BUISNESS than a hobby and that is exactly what happens, people don't realize (or they do) because the changes occur over time and gradually the site becomes less of a place for intelligent conversation and more of a marketing (buisness )
and mods i would apolozige if all this change to the site is being done in the absence of greed or corporate sponsors because i do beleive most of you are a special selfless generous bunch, but u guys are human and the greed bug could become persistant.

why is it everone on here can agree the world is so corrupt but the credibility for alternative theory's that differs from the official gov't /whoevers story is so difficult to accept must be semantics i.e the word conspiracy makes people's minds (which compartamentalize things wether u understand it or not) think of a work of fiction kinda makes u feel silly that a word can change your beleifs so much , eh



[edit on 3-1-2007 by cpdaman]

So apparently this author has a problem with those of us more inteligent enough to notice when someone has posted some random BS story? ... Because I would say 99% of the time when someone is called out it is rightfully so. Perhaps if you want to discuss fairy tales with no intelectual backing what so ever, you go to some other site. There is nothing wrong with wanting proof for accusation that can sometimes if not often be.. out there.

And how does this have anything to do with money? .. I think it represents the maturity that this site has, and without it, the site would loose all credibility. I would rather a site where people can come to discuss in an educated manor then a place where every 13 year old can post stories and have every other gullable teenager believe it.

Originally posted by cpdaman
the more "NEW THIS SITE" looks the more the moderators will want to APPEASE THERE SPONSORS and keep traffic HIGH

We have no sponsors that require appeasement. And, when we have had companies purchase advertising specific to ATS, they must sign an agreement that they accept the editorial content of ATS staff and members as-is... no influence. This will not change.

it seems like this is turning more to a BUISNESS than a hobby

Correct.

And because of that, interesting and stunning avenues of exposure are opening up that no hobby could ever provide. There are lots of "behind the scenes" plans being worked out, most of them very "hush hush". But three things drive all considerations...

1) Membership will always be free, and benefits extensive.

2) Topical coverage will always be wide open with no censorship other than foul language or insulting content.

3) Broadest-possible distribution and awareness of what our members discuss, theorize, speculate, or reveal is our gauge for success.

well that is true that this site offers alot for a very little, and thus it will be very lucarative

but to grow a business more succesful the more u will bend your morals in the name of "success"

like when some member says the posts used to be more meaningful and now they are something to the fact of " i see a something out of the corner of my eye, it must be a reptilian" he MAY have a point , i haven't been on here long enoug to tell, but it is THE PATTERNS IN WHICH U ANSWER these questions that raise my eyebrows

by giving his beleif that topics are less and less thought provoking and more silly and frustrating u give them ablanket term familiarity fatigue

which side steps and supposes it is untrue or someting differnt when in fact you admit that as your sight is looking to draw in more memebers which u said may add 'a more unsophisticated element to the mix.. which is too bad" kinda of seems to agree with his statement but just differ in a matter of semantics....but alas i get it ..it how succesful buisness people answer things and i respect the job you guys do... and i will stop the badgering

[edit on 3-1-2007 by cpdaman]