Woman's Survival

Thanks for the WATS AnxietyDisorder. No longer being young and cute, I don't have to worry about attracting sexual attention (wanted or unwanted). In fact, I'd have to tie a pork chop around my neck to get the dogs to play with me. I still have regular periods though so dealing with them is still an issue.
I taught my 3 daughters useful tips that they couldn't see the immediate value of at the time but have since come to appreciate their training. Most people run away from dangerous situations (usually wise) but my fight or flight response got stuck in first gear and I've been in an attempted rape situation. Problem with rape is: ya gotta get close. Within eye-gouge, larynx crushing range. I was accosted in the parking lot leaving the hospital where I was a nurse at the time and some guy nabbed me while I was unlocking my car door. He shoved me against the car and while he was making threats and demands, I grabbed my hemostats and clamped them onto his testicles. Instant attitude adjustment. I guess he decided to find a different victim and he limped away. (Never did get my hemostats back) Learning vital points on the human body is something every female can do. It doesn't take strength. It takes moxy. Any woman who is willing to face possible death from childbirth has all the moxy she needs.
Speaking of moxy, I'm glad to see so many females taking an interest in survival situations/preparations. I've been ranting about this since way before being "paranoid" was cool. It's good that women are asking practical questions and planning ahead for their own safety/well-being as well as that of their loved ones under less than ideal conditions. Take up belly-dancing. It's a fun hobby, your man will love you for it and, most importantly, it's one of the best exercises you can do to stay in shape during your pregnancy (will come in useful during delivery, too). Doesn't require any equipment so it's an exercise you can keep up with during the long months of pregnancy whether you're in hiding or on the run.
When I was a teenager (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), I asked my grandmother what they did before pampers were invented. She said, "you ever heard of 'pottage plants'?" Apparently, they just let the kid run butt-naked and when it started to pee/poop they tossed it outside to finish it's business in the plants by the house. She said most kids were potty-trained by 15 months. Seems harsh to us but we may be looking at similar times again.

Immediately after you are done bleeding you can have sex for 7 days without risk of pregnancy. Then you can be no-sex "freaky" for 14... back to bleeding for 7... then the cycle repeats.

Don't want kinds? Be content with 7 days a month.

Tried and true.

Want kids? Focus especially on the three days before you start bleeding.

Erm, well. No. That's not quite how the average female body works. Normally I wouldn't post as there have been tons of great tips already, but I can't let this stand without correcting it.

A woman is fertile (i.e. a viable ovum has been released, and is ready for fertilization) for approximately 1 - one - ONE - single day a month. In that short time, which comes 2 weeks after the onset of menses (not - NOT!!! - the last day of blood flow, but the first day is the onset), and until the hormone flush is complete. Once progesterone is provided, without the fertilized ovum to need it, the corpus luteum will degenerate and there is no hormone available to continue the uterus' implatation layer (the endometrium functionale, which is what is shed every +/- 28 days or lunar cycle). If there is a pregnancy, the corpus luteum will continue to produce progesterone and that is what prepares/allows implantation.

In other words, a woman is the MOST fertile from day 14-16 of your menses cycle, which begins on the first day of bleeding.

If you want babies, focus on those days. Have lots of sex (it takes approximately 15,000 sperm to create the environment for one of them to actually fertilize an ovum) on days 14, 15, 16...and enjoy the wonders of it all.

If you don't want babies, pretty much any day a woman is in menses, or perhaps the first few days after she completes it is relatively safe. Additionally, a woman is no longer fertile for the last 10 days of her cycle, and thus sex can be had without risk of pregnancy.

**THIS INFORMATION IS BASED ON THE AVERAGE WOMAN'S LUNAR CYCLE*** In other words, know your body, understand your body. You might be fertile earlier or later than average. And men, know and understand your body. It tends to help prevent issues, as well.

Regards-
Aimless Searcher


[edit on 30-12-2006 by Aimless Searcher]

From what I've read, ovulation takes weeks in total -- when the woman is actually fertile is another issue.

Ovulation does not take weeks in total; what takes weeks is the actual presentation of the follicle and it's maturation within the ovary.

Once the oocyte is mature (which actually mostly happens when the girl child is in utero though meosis...she is born with all the ova she will have; they are in a state of suspended animation, if you like, until it's that particular ova's "turn" to be erupted from the ovary into the fimbrae and from there into the ampulla of the oviduct ["tube"]).

How it works is something like this:
~the ova is the one that will be matured. Hormones (FSH, lutin, and several others) will do their thing in the right order, and fill the follicle of the ova full of fluid. That will place pressure onto the cortex of the ovary, and the ovary will rupture, expelling the ova into the fimbrae.
~the fimbrae will bring the now-mature-but-still-in-meosis-I-stage ova into the ampulla of the oviduct. Once there, if there is enough sperm to create the hormonal conditions needed for fertilization, the ova and one single sperm (mostly; on occasion, there will be more. This tends to lead to multiple births, and identicality in those births) will unite, meosis stage II will occur, the conceptus will travel down the rest of the oviduct, growing all the while, and implantation will occur.

The issue of fertility is a many faceted one, and because of that rather difficult to address in a short, readable post. However, some problems can be too much progesterone, fimbrae/apulla inadequacy, non-ovulation, implantation issues, blood flow issues, hormonal difficulties, and on and on. Statistics show that nearly 70% of all concepti do not survive to implantation, and are passed from the woman's body through menses.

I hope this and the above post brings a bit fuller of an understanding to those reading it. In a survival situation, the more you know, and the more you know accurately, can help save lives, and can also create new ones. I believe it is both the male and the female's responsibility to understand the reproductive cycle, because that way, at least ONE person there will know what's going on.

Regards-
Aimless Searcher

[edit on 30-12-2006 by orangetom1999]

I was interested to read someone post about another who double ovulated it's quite unusual I'm told and does create some pain as well...in addition to a wonky cycle (may be age relative??)

...and I agree OrangeTom1999 get the heck out of dodge - vagina in tact... and keep a low profile well away from urbania... knowing self defense as was mentioned earlier, as well as knowing yourself and your own fight or flight instinct...and being prepared to barter.

it's also been mentioned before that it is highly likely that most women's flows will be disrupted by stress, poor nutrition, dehydration and a slough of additional factors.... All great points. Nice to see more women showing interest.

Originally posted by clearwater

With an erosion in the rule of law and the rise of tribal thinking, women become a commodity, mere chattle - it is the state of the animal kingdom in man and our freedoms are, as always, tenuous and imperiled. Of course we are still mere chattle to many. A possession in a coffer without the equal respect men get from one another. Perhaps because nurturing a wife and child requires greater sacrifice than men are expected to give one another. So the temptation to reduce the equation to its animal origins seems more appealing to many than creating loving environments.

The economic wage disparity and reproductive dependency hasn't completely surmounted that and what we see now is a social sexual preying on women unprecedented in history. Women, being women - crave male attention and are inducted into their own degradation in search of it. Could be that after the initial devastation, women are even more valued and respected than current social customs indicate. That would depend on alot of things.

It has been years since I read this book written by a woman and I cant remember her name or the title but I will try to make the point about these conditions and what astonished me about the situation.

This woman was a civilian caught up in the fall of the Phillipines early in WW2 and taken prisioner by the Japanese. She survived as a prisioner of war in the camps.

What she said in this book about the female menstrual cycle astonished me. The conditions were very harsh and food was scarce and much of it not very nutritious. Many of the women died as did the males in the other camps.
What she said was that the women made do just as many of the posters here are describing. However in addition to this she said that because of the malnutrition ..many women simply stopped having thier periods. I was astonished by this. I had never considered such a thing.

I do agree with many of the posters in that under such conditions ones period would fade in importance compared to other problems.

I will remind the readers of something else. Out in the wild...under survival conditions the smell of blood from numerous women in thier cycles can attract four legged predators. Remember this ..predators.the are often opportunists. This could also make the children vulnurable since the pattern is to prey on what they pereive as the weak. Something to consider.
I dont know if it has a partial bearing on this concept but women in certain tribes were often seperated from the group in special shelters during this time. Other family memebers or women picked up the slack.

It is just that we live in such a affluent social and economic structure that we hardly think of life outside of a shopping mall, grocery store or drug store/pharmacy. What do we do if these places are no longer accessable.

The original posters question is not unreasonable. It is just that our social structure gives us little reason to think further than this affluence and many of us think this affluence is the norm for everyone. It is not. It is very easy to think through the veil of our economic affluence and deceive ourselves. Many in New Orleans found this out when conditions broke down.

Clearwater,
I really resent the type of thinking you are trying to illustrate here in your post I have quoted above. This is about as standard textbook M1A issue politics as is often generated by our intelligentsia. It is so standard that the average male can no longer think outside of what is posted and allows this drivel to go through unchallanged. They too think this is entirely normal. I have often declared in ATS/BTS ..what a dumb bunch of men we have out here today.

Women are a commodity..Chattel..even today.. You are joking about this right??

I have posted this in many rooms before so I will post it again.
As a sign of women being chattel here in this day and age especially in America...and other western nations....when I go into any department store in this country ..coast to coast I see approximately seven times more floor space dedicated to women and womens goods than mens goods.
Since I know by ample testamony from "experts" on the subject that women earn less than men and there is a horrible wage disparity between women and men ...I also now know that someone has to be paying for all these goods to afford a seven to one imbalance in goods and floor space f directed primarily to women. It is not the women..they dont earn as much as men yes???
So the question arises Clearwater...who is paying for all this seven to one disparity in merchandize directed to women?? Its not the women ..they dont make as much ...wage disparity remember?? Who is the victim here??
Think this through carefully.
To make this clear...I am saying that men only earn these moneys and often come in second place. The women determine how the moneys are spent. ..they,the men, are paying for thier own inequality.
Only a men can be this naturally dumb..because women are not. This is not women being chattel. If men are this mute and dumb they are the chattel.
REmember..seven to one...womens merchandize. If men were running this show it would be seven to one men!!

The willingness of the male to make moneys and turn the discretion of the spending of the moneys he earns over to his woman is one of the greatest adaptations of all time. Yet when I see posts like yours I see no mention of this ..only veiled entitlement strategys.

The fact of the matter is...that men are only dumb enough to earn the moneys. The women in this country determine how most of it is spent. Not the males. The males are way to dumb to put this together. They would rather watch the Lakers or such.

But women are doing everything men are doing and doing a better job of it ..right!! That was the mantra..yes??
How about in a survival situation...any difference??

The other thing is that many men in this country often work in jobs to earn this money where they face dangerous conditions daily. This too not mentioned in posts like yours. Male death and injury on the job is not a statistic which "experts " on female victimization are wont to explain. THey only quote female statistics.

Do you think in a survival situation..the enlightened women of this world are going to take risks for the men to live comfortable lives??
Do they do this in normal times with thier lives and careers?? Think this through carefully in lieu of the concept of wage disparity.

I can see this at Home Depot when I see the women going in this place with their men. The men are often taking directions from their women on how to purchase for thier homes. This does not look like female victimization or Chattel to me.

Do you honestly think that in a survival situation like the ones described on this thread that men will still not take risks for thier familys often to their extinction.

NO matter how you cut it ..the greatest benificiary of the males willingness to risk life and limb/extinction for his family has been the women and kids.
And all you can focus on is your version of love.

You come across as very narrow minded...You cannot seem to realize that a mans willingness to work and sacrafice for family so often to his early extinction is in fact love. This is to many men nuturing and love. You on the other hand are wont to substitute your version of how love should be. Only rampant consumerism/entitlement to the point of a drug habit can bind people to this understanding. Male and Female both.

The main ingredient I see many women bewailing and moaning about in normal times and also survival times is thier sex and reproduction. Thats it..the main ingredient. And you want respect?? Think this through carefully both in connotation and denotation. I can tell this clearly by going through any department store and checking out the seven to one floor space.

YOu want respect ..normal times or survival times...make yourself more useful to the point of extinction as do many men and turn over much of your production so that a man can spend time worring about his second class status as chattel.

'As to animal origins..I can assure you ..I have watched women many times in different situations..they are very animalistic. It is just that they are much more adept at concealing this than are men. ...by far. Women are also very very highly territorial. Much more and differently than a man but territorial nonetheless. A woman in disagreement with another women does not cut another woman the slack which a man is wont to do. A woman will go for another womans jugular very quickly. It is very animalistic in a manner for which most men have difficulty conceiving...but animalistic non the less..nothing civilized about it. And I mean this in a survival situation as well as good times.

OH..about social sexual predators...yes I agree..buisnesses and manufacturers/advertisers are quite adept as this social sexual predation of women...their sexual insecuritys to sell merchandize. It goes from there right on through the food chain. ..even down to our kids...and that is the worst thing of which I worry. The kids. They will even prey on them at very young ages. No time anymore to be just kids.

I can only surmise that good times have ruined us as a people that we can afford this dumbness..male and female both.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Bravo to you OrangeTom. Well said even if it was said a little angrily. Erma Bombeck once said a similar thing (although I laughed when she said it). She said that if an alien were to visit planet earth and look around they would see men pouring black tar on rooftops in 100+ heat while women were typing in an air-conditioned office. They would see men running into burning buildings while women stayed safe in their homes. She gave several examples of how ridiculous it is for women to complain about being "oppressed".

There are certain stereotypes that have valid points to them. Male and female disparity/differences being among them. That being admitted, let me also add that men, generally speaking, do not have the same manly virtues of their forefathers. Chivalry is truly dead and stinking. Some of it is, no doubt, the woman's fault.

In such a moral crisis, a survival situation is indeed dire for any female. How many men in the Astrodome tried to stop the rapes that were going on right under their noses? If a women has a man that is willing to protect her with his life, is he able? If he is able, is he willing? What if she has no man? What if she's a single mom with 4 kids who's husband decided to run off with his secretary? She thought she was safe and protected but found herself in a survival situation even during peace times. (If you think raising 4 kids by yourself with that wage disparity you mentioned isn't a survival situation, you aren't paying attention.) What if her man is noble and physically fit and dies defending her? She's still screwed. Literally and physically. Women have a lot to think about when it comes to survival situations. The best thing a man can do for his woman is to teach her (and learn himself) how to think/act in worst case scenarios. The best thing he can do for his children is to love their mother.

Whitewave,

That has to be the most balanced, realistic post I've read from a woman on this board. It's not about oneupsmanship. It's about Loving the family that God gave you and being Faithful above all else! Sending you a WATS!

You have voted whitewave for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Aw shucks. (blushing)

Seriously, though, I think we would all be a lot better off if we simply recognized our differences (black/white, male/female, jew/moslem, etc.) and, instead of faulting one another for those differences, celebrate them and make the most of them. Saying that one segment of the population needs to be subjugated to another for ANY reason is absurd.
Imagine in the plant world: Apple tree says to orange tree, "you're not an apple, therefore you're not as valuable a fruit as me. You must now cover up your bark (orange tree bark excites me), grow only in my shade and not produce too much so as to not outnumber the dominant apple trees. You must change from orange to red (the only acceptable color) and, for god's sake, try to be more like an apple.
Ridiculous! you say? Of course it is. But how is it any different than the way minorities are treated anywhere in the world? Instead of trying to find groups of people to lord over some assumed authority, how about we treat people like adults? Sovereigns in their own right.
As a sovereign, if you try to put "sanctions" on me to adjust my behavior, I will consider it an act of aggression and respond appropriately. If you physically try to bring me under your (foreign) rule, I will consider it an act of war and respond accordingly. As a sovereign, I will be responsible for myself and my own internal affairs. If you declare yourself an ally, then I will rally to your aid and support your causes when needed. If you prove to be an enemy combatant/terrorist/invader (of my mental, emotional, physical, spiritual) territory then it will be a coooooold war indeed.
We have enough real problems in the world without hanging on to ones that should have been fixed centuries ago. If we treat one another with respect and mutuality it won't be long before we forget that we're different from one another.

Originally posted by whitewave

There are certain stereotypes that have valid points to them. Male and female disparity/differences being among them. That being admitted, let me also add that men, generally speaking, do not have the same manly virtues of their forefathers. Chivalry is truly dead and stinking. Some of it is, no doubt, the woman's fault.

Whitewave,

I would be very hardpressed to debate the point you have made here.
A good bit of my ire here is also directed to men or what passes for men today. Obviously not much thinking going on among them.
To many men ..way to many men occupied with sports, Cheerleaders, and their oil shortage to even think beyond rampant consumerism. To many of them unthinking and allowing this drivel to pass for womanhood too.

Obviously I dont watch sports...very little intrest in the male religion of sports gods.

I agree with you about the men today or what passes for men not having the manly virtues of their fathers. No doubt about it. They cannot go the distance or even defend a mans position..often they can even be correct about what they believe and lose out to a woman and her emotions. Astonishing. I look at some of the "men " I know ..they spend as much if not more time on the phones as do many women. This must be to what equality is becoming.
As to Chivalry dying out...Yes I agree..especially up north and now even places out west...to my astonishment. I dont like it especially in the big citys when men are very coarse to women. I see this alot up north in the citys. It seems to be the norm among many today.
I also dont care for this thing among many men where they go into a building and cannot take their hats off. They must keep them on constantly. Astonishing to me. I reckon I am olde school here.
I live on the Coast here in Virginia. There is still a measure of civility here along with a certain gentility. It is fading to consumerism in the citys but outside of the citys in the rural areas it can still be found. More so as you go further south. I hope the south never loses this civility and gentility to the rampant, rabid consumerism of the fast food lane.

I will make one point here in slight disagreement to yours. There is a concept among men and women concerning what I term male expendability and disposability. I dont necessarily agree with this default setting in social arrangements. Especially if it is done in the name of rampant rabid consumerism...verses real virtues in life. By your reply above I surmise that you will understand this point better than do most.
I agree ..the best thing a man can do for his family is to love them..all. And loving his bride is good for her and the children. It is called stability.

Also ..every day is to me a survival situation. Good times or bad. That is just the way I look at it. Life is survival. You have to work at it...not default through.

Being a man or a woman is internal development first ..not external.
You can sometimes spot this in many posts...like radar seeing in the dark.
Somehow many of us seem to have gotten this backwards.

Thanks for your views. Well said.
Orangetom

HEAR HEAR I HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT
ATTENTION ATENTION PLEASE you in back attention please. So are we all here. good lets get started. We are here today to interview Mr chivalry so without further ado Mr chivalry.

First "Mr chivalry why is it so many people especially ladies say you are dead?"

"Well Angry that would be because I have to hide alot I need to stay out of sight and do my work in the shadows. There are people who want me dead. They call themselves women libbers. They actually don't want to equality they want to be superior ."

"Can you give us an example?"

"Sure ide be happy to. Well lets go back before we go forward. Way back when a man would open a door for a ladie/female. the ladie/female would give a little bow of the head and say thank you very much sir and be on her way. Flash forward and now when that same man opens and holds a door for a ladie/female he gets dirty looks and in some extreme cases a verbal beating about how she is capable of opening her own door and doesn't need any man to do it for her and what does he think this is the middle ages. The poor slump walks away feeling confused hurt and bewildered so you see its dangerous out there for me.

"But sir are you saying that the world doesn't need you these days?"

"No Angry that's not what ime saying. Using me is showing respect to other humans. In the past I have Traditionally been used on women but I can also be used from man to man if done properly. All people disserve respect and that is what I am is respect."

"SO it was the Woman libbers who started the rumors of your death then?"

"Yes not only did they start it they set out to actually wipe every trace of me off the earth."

"Why would they do that Mr chivalry?"

"I believe its done out of ignorance. They felt if they let a man do for them that they were some how weak and unworthy. What the didn't relie is that they were actually being worshipped in a small way."

"Well in closing Mr chivalry do you have any messages for us freedom fighters?"

"Well yes I do. Those that say ime dead, show them Ime not, weather they like it or not. go ahead open those doors carry those bags. if they berate you smile and say "I respect your opinion." Then walk away with a smile on your face. When you get home at night look in the mirror and be proud of what you see because you will be a respectful human."

"Ok thank you Mr chivalry. Well ladies and gentleman thanks for coming and now that we know that chivalry is not in fact dead but scared lets bring this war from the alleyways to the streets. Go fourth respectful solders and take no prisoners in this holy war on hate.

[edit on 31-12-2006 by angryamerican]

I dont concern myself anymore with the so called Libbers. When I tire of them I mostly leave them standing. If I feel like dealing with it I tell them "I dont have time or intrest in thier insecuritys." I have told many a woman exactly that when they get wound up around me.
Women as a whole have little respcet for an insecure man. Why would a man have such respect for a insecure one tracked woman??

I expect more from a woman I see than beauty and sexuality. Much more.
Those women are a dime a dozen and often overpriced in the marketplace for any real intrinsic value. In a survival situation they will be an extreme liability. Men like this too. You get them Jump started or leave them by the wayside.

Go to any check out stand in the stores and look at the magazines boldly shouting at you with thier headlines. Notice how many are directed at men verses women. Almost none. THe headlines scream at you like the word "RAPE!!" Most of the headlines are articles about your sexuality..ways to lose weight without working at it, or to compliment your wardrobe. Open them up and see how many articles there are about how to perform better on the job...or advertisements to do the same. They are nonexistant. It is all about how to pamper yourself "you deserve it the others dont." This type of mentalty. Mostly beauty aids. Always implicit in these articles is the concept of who is paying for this stuff. REmember ..wage disparity.
THe sophisticated woman steps up to Home and Garden, Southern Living et al. Once again in these magazines it is implicit not explicit as to who pays for this or does the work and commitments to afford this.
So many people think this drivel is a normal lifestyle..it is not.
Mind you now ..not all women buy into this rubbish..these are the ones to which you want to pay particular attention. They would have something really valuable to offer a man..a commodity of real intrinsic value.

When you understand this pattern and the depth to which it implys..not makes explicit..you realize you dont have to take second place to any woman or man for that matter. Libbers or not.

I will also tell you AngryAmerican that many of the younger women today are not buying into that mantra so popular in their mothers and grandmothers days. They are astute enough to see that the movement did not make their mothers and grandmothers days better or more fulfilled.
Many of these women are growing olde alone. Many of them contrary to the doctrine and dogma of those days chose the safety net of marriage as their biology ran out and the career options became fewer and fewer. Their children and grandchildren can see this.

The other survival option women used so much in those days was abortion. This too is becomeing weaker as a justification. Many younger women today are not buying into that mantra .
To my surprise this is a result of technology ..not politics per se. What I was told by a woman is that the technnology of sonograms where you can see the fetus and its heart pumping on one of those sound devices has worked on the conscience of many women in this arena.
This is not a concept I would have thought of on my own. It took a woman to enlighten me of this line of thinking. This is a woman I respect to this day. Very astute of her and I respect her for sharing of this concept with me.

Another thing about survival...to many women ..emotions is what counts for being correct. Do not be fooled by this. Good times or bad. You have to learn to lead..not follow. Just as in dancing..learn to lead.

One more thing angryamerican....alot of this frustration of men is reaction to a placebo. Really dumb. By being so easily diverted from simple facts many men respond to placebos.
Much of this is a mans fault for being dumb about a great many things. Includng their manhood.
Dont ever worry about these womens reactions to Chivalry. It is a placebo born of insecurity and then often transfered to the men.

These are thinking tools for your survival ..good times or bad. Learn to spot the placebo..they are all around you.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Why does the topic of women's libbers always come up when a discussion turns to women being independent?

Women have to survive a situation X the same as the men do and it matters for not what sex you are but rather what brains and skills you have, and whether you are prepared to use them or not.

Blah blah blah women this and women that...yes women will be an obvious target for obvious reasons...but there will be others who are preyed upon during a situation X...children, the old and infirm, the sick and those with mental/physical disabilities as well as weaker men... all fair game for those who are mightier.

A woman preparing herself for emergencies has not one dang thing to do with women's liberation.

The issue with most of the survival information out there is that it is geared for men. Gear, supplies, tools and equipment as well as survival and self defense techniques mainly centered on the male...

Women have different physiques, different carrying loads, different requirements for vitamins and nutrition and yes different bodily functions. Mentalities are notably different in some ways as well.

I'm still trying to figure out how this thread got from discussing women's survival to male/female oppression - past/present.

Ridiculous.

Originally posted by justgeneric
Why does the topic of women's libbers always come up when a discussion turns to women being independent?

This is why

Originally posted by whitewave
generally speaking, do not have the same manly virtues of their forefathers. Chivalry is truly dead and stinking.

Um in this case that statement fired me up!

Blah blah blah women this and women that...yes women will be an obvious target for obvious reasons...

Hmm the thread is after all about women. Yes we have strayed far from the original topick but we are still infact talking about women.

A woman preparing herself for emergencies has not one dang thing to do with women's liberation.

SEE WHITEWAVE QUOTE ABOVE
chiverly is not dead and stinking just hiding to protect itself. If you took offense to my post well there is nothing I can do about that and even if there was I woudnt bother. My purpose here is to help not harm however as your post blatently points out you cant please everybody.

I'm still trying to figure out how this thread got from discussing women's survival to male/female oppression - past/present.

These things sometimes develop a mind of there own and go off in crazy directions. You should embrace that and enjoy the conversation not let yourself get irritated.

Ridiculous.

In your opinion

oiyvay...well...geez I guess I done been told huh?

You know I really avoid finger pointing and I'm pretty certain my post wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Just a blanket statement. Single out as you see fit and direct whatever ire you see fit I suppose. Seems to be the norm lately.

And after that flipint so called non finger pointing post I shall bow out of this thread and never retur.
one more point for the libbers See ya in another thread.

This thread reminds me of a dream I had a long time ago.

The dream started out nice enough. Apocolyptic nightmare everyone on the planet died except for me. I was in England at the time so I had to make my way down to London to try and get a large enough plane to fly back home in.

Well halfway to London I meet up with a girl, I was thinking WHOO HOO great! least I won't die alone and I had to be sure to get some action. Well no the girl turned out to be a lesbien in my dream (my subconcious hates me)

I was so ticked off that she was a lesbien that the rest of the dream I was trying to ditch her.

So I get to the airport and find a nice large plane and manage to get it fueled up. I get in the cockpit. and whos in the dang plane? Thats right the lesbien from before. I woke up as I was taxing down the runway with the door open and me trying to throw her off.

Whats the point of this? Well for me the point was. With my luck if I was the last man alive the last woman alive would be a lesbien.

shouldn't this post be posted in the "your female-Deal with it!" section? !

In my very biased opinion this post got off the thread when a poster named Clearwater made a bad textbook type post. I was not going to let it pass.

I did not get as worked up to my knowlege as did AngryAmerican. My apologies if I contributed to their ire.

I agree ..women have to survive situation X as well as men. I just dont buy into the victim dictum or the chattel dogma used as a default by many women in good times or bad and was wont to speak out so.

I feel that women as well as men should in fact be prepared for situation X or at least a natural disaster. For many I know this is the farthest thing from their mind.

As to AngryAmericans beinig angry about a previous posters point concerning Chivalry or not being made of the stuff of our fathers or grandfathers time. I agree with the poster. AngryAmerican has no reason to take this point personally as it was not directed to anyone specifically. I do however agree with the posters point. And I mean this in good times as well as hard times.
It is a sad state of affairs when we ,Male and Female, know more about the next product coming down the line then who or what our ancestors were..or things that they knew about dealing with hard times or survival. I of course include myself in this.

AngryAmerican...dont you leave this post...dont roll over in frustration...stand up and be counted. On this or any other post. While I understand your frustration just try to do it with a measure of civility ..even in disagreement. I like to think you are better than that.

Thanks to all for their contributions,
Orangetom

You're correct justgeneric. I think this is an interesting and important topic and it's sad how it degenerated into bashing feminism.

It's also very interesting how some want to see us go back to the archaic male/female roles.

But let me tell you all something: those roles never really hold on the frontier. The role of women in the western US was not one of shrinking violets. You had to be tough to live on the frontier. Your man had a bad habit of dying on you. You had to be able to hunt or raise animals, grow vegetables and negotiate with your neighbors, both immigrants and natives, teach your children and keep them clothed. There's a reason Wyoming was the first state to give women the right to vote in the US.

If situation X occurs and I have to head to the Piney Woods/Big Thicket of East Texas, I'll be damned if I wear "modest clothing" in 105 degree heat and 98 percent humidity. I'll be wearing chacos, baggy shorts, a tank top and a baseball cap (along with any grease I can find to keep the mosquitoes away -- they carry disease).

And to suggest that I don't know when to keep my mouth shut is ridiculous, at best.

To all the women out there: our great grandmothers and grandmothers used rags that were washed. There have been good suggestions regarding the making of belts to hold the rags. I suggest experimenting at home.

Learn how to trap and hunt. Learn how to grow cotton, spin it and weave it. Learn how to recognize beneficial plants and herbs. Learn how to "tickle" fish.

Peace

T